Dillon Phillips

[Ambitious]

Both our keepers conceded goals at the same rate last season, 1.36 goals an appearance. Although, Roos had much more to do and had a better rate of clean sheets. Phillips obviously conceded goals at a higher rate (1.41) but had a higher clean sheet rate than Hamer (19% to 16%) (Roos was higher still with 27%). Nevertheless, Phillips made the most saves in the Championship and made on average 3.39 saves an appearance. 

I think this is a case of watching a keeper make a ton of saves in our division and see him as a possibility. I do think, in theory, that he would still lead to frustrations here as he doesn't catch the ball often. Eric Steele is a fan of Roos and on the occasions I've listened to explained in great lengths why punching ISN'T a bad trait to Ed, who by all accounts reacts like most fans. I do think Roos would be an extremely good pickup for a Championship club - when you take everything into account his record in terms of numbers isn't that dissimilar to Carson.

Roos
Total Derby Apps - 56 games - 64 conceded - 19 clean sheets (1.14 and 34%)

Carson
Total Derby Apps - 171 games - 189 conceded - 60 clean sheets (1.11 and 35%) 

Carson, I would imagine had a higher save rate than Roos, certainly in the first two/three seasons where he was nothing short of a monster for us. 

I believe it's just the fact Roos has a tendency to punch rather than catch that has hindered him here, yet it's not like they're costing us goals regularly. If we get in another keeper with the same tendency I don't believe it will help and I'm sure Phillips is a good goalkeeper. 

[SECornerRAM]

5 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Both our keepers conceded goals at the same rate last season, 1.36 goals an appearance. Although, Roos had much more to do and had a better rate of clean sheets. Phillips obviously conceded goals at a higher rate (1.41) but had a higher clean sheet rate than Hamer (19% to 16%) (Roos was higher still with 27%). Nevertheless, Phillips made the most saves in the Championship and made on average 3.39 saves an appearance. 

I think this is a case of watching a keeper make a ton of saves in our division and see him as a possibility. I do think, in theory, that he would still lead to frustrations here as he doesn't catch the ball often. Eric Steele is a fan of Roos and on the occasions I've listened to explained in great lengths why punching ISN'T a bad trait to Ed, who by all accounts reacts like most fans. I do think Roos would be an extremely good pickup for a Championship club - when you take everything into account his record in terms of numbers isn't that dissimilar to Carson.

Roos
Total Derby Apps - 56 games - 64 conceded - 19 clean sheets (1.14 and 34%)

Carson
Total Derby Apps - 171 games - 189 conceded - 60 clean sheets (1.11 and 35%) 

Carson, I would imagine had a higher save rate than Roos, certainly in the first two/three seasons where he was nothing short of a monster for us. 

I believe it's just the fact Roos has a tendency to punch rather than catch that has hindered him here, yet it's not like they're costing us goals regularly. If we get in another keeper with the same tendency I don't believe it will help and I'm sure Phillips is a good goalkeeper. 

Always a difficult one to look at save quantity per appearance for a team relegated - Was the exact thing that skewed Pickford's figures for Sunderland before his move to Everton - now being shown for how average he actually is IMO when it 

The best figure for this the '% chance a keeper makes more saves vs expected saves in line with XG' - in this statistical analysis - Phillips comes second to Bialkowski in the championship. 

Roos 10th in the league 

Hamer 20th in the league 

 

It definitely shows how poor Hamer is to be a number one for us, maybe it also shows that Roos isn't that bad in this league? 

below Roos in terms of keeper quality that puts: Woodman / Lossl / Walton / David Reya 

 

Personally believe your keeper only needs to be competent - if you have a solid keeper that makes no mistakes (easier said than done) and makes those 'expected saves' - maybe its more important to look at the defensive unit infront of them? 

we can laude Bogle for his assists and attacking threat - However we concede 58% more crosses into the box from that side (yet to find a stat on conversion rates from either wing however) 

 

think midfield isn't a million miles off - bit of extra quality maybe for the heavy scheduling - and hopefully have 2 solid CB in ap artnership with a keeper 

we massively have to look at our options out wide both attacking and defensively IMO - Full backs that cant defend screams play 3-5-2 or a variant of 

[Ambitious]

3 minutes ago, Burtonram2066 said:

Always a difficult one to look at save quantity per appearance for a team relegated - Was the exact thing that skewed Pickford's figures for Sunderland before his move to Everton - now being shown for how average he actually is IMO when it 

The best figure for this the '% chance a keeper makes more saves vs expected saves in line with XG' - in this statistical analysis - Phillips comes second to Bialkowski in the championship. 

Roos 10th in the league 

Hamer 20th in the league 

 

It definitely shows how poor Hamer is to be a number one for us, maybe it also shows that Roos isn't that bad in this league? 

below Roos in terms of keeper quality that puts: Woodman / Lossl / Walton / David Reya 

 

Personally believe your keeper only needs to be competent - if you have a solid keeper that makes no mistakes (easier said than done) and makes those 'expected saves' - maybe its more important to look at the defensive unit infront of them? 

we can laude Bogle for his assists and attacking threat - However we concede 58% more crosses into the box from that side (yet to find a stat on conversion rates from either wing however) 

 

think midfield isn't a million miles off - bit of extra quality maybe for the heavy scheduling - and hopefully have 2 solid CB in ap artnership with a keeper 

we massively have to look at our options out wide both attacking and defensively IMO - Full backs that cant defend screams play 3-5-2 or a variant of 

In fairness to both Lowe and Forsyth, I don't believe their defensively poor. No fullback in the league even comes remotely close to making as many tackles per game than Lowe - he's wildly ahead. Mahlon Romeo has made the most tackles as a full back with 113 in 43 games. If Lowe had played 43 games he would have 172 tackles at the same rate. I think it's more of a case of how we set up. We tend to be quite narrow when defending which leaves space outwide. We play with wide forwards, so get very little help so it's no surprise that are prone to allowing crosses in the box. It's just the weakness of our system, but you can't have it all.

[Van der MoodHoover]

14 hours ago, sage said:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dillon+phillips+

An amazing number of saves, Charlton's defence must be awful. 

Wait till he sees ours........

[DarkFruitsRam7]

18 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

In fairness to both Lowe and Forsyth, I don't believe their defensively poor. No fullback in the league even comes remotely close to making as many tackles per game than Lowe - he's wildly ahead. Mahlon Romeo has made the most tackles as a full back with 113 in 43 games. If Lowe had played 43 games he would have 172 tackles at the same rate. I think it's more of a case of how we set up. We tend to be quite narrow when defending which leaves space outwide. We play with wide forwards, so get very little help so it's no surprise that are prone to allowing crosses in the box. It's just the weakness of our system, but you can't have it all.

I love Forsyth but I really, really want to see Lowe as first-choice left back. I would be starting him every week.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

If he was holding out to see if Cardiff went up I think we can put that to bed after their result last night.

[SECornerRAM]

be strange why they are looking for a keeper; Smithies and Etheridge good keepers in the championship - granted they may lose one who wants first team football 

Etheridge and Roos could have a contest for 'prettiest goalkeeper' in the championship if we signed him 

15 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If he was holding out to see if Cardiff went up I think we can put that to bed after their result last night.

 

[jimbobram]

42 minutes ago, Burtonram2066 said:

be strange why they are looking for a keeper; Smithies and Etheridge good keepers in the championship - granted they may lose one who wants first team football 

Etheridge and Roos could have a contest for 'prettiest goalkeeper' in the championship if we signed him 

 

I think we should be looking at both of those 

[Dambuster]

4 hours ago, RamNut said:

6 yellow cards!
 

Sign him up.

Assume most of those will be time wasting to preserve points.

[Dambuster]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

In fairness to both Lowe and Forsyth, I don't believe their defensively poor. No fullback in the league even comes remotely close to making as many tackles per game than Lowe - he's wildly ahead. Mahlon Romeo has made the most tackles as a full back with 113 in 43 games. If Lowe had played 43 games he would have 172 tackles at the same rate. I think it's more of a case of how we set up. We tend to be quite narrow when defending which leaves space outwide. We play with wide forwards, so get very little help so it's no surprise that are prone to allowing crosses in the box. It's just the weakness of our system, but you can't have it all.

I’ve noticed this too, it’s not until a wide man receives the ball that a defender comes out to challenge so we are always in danger from an early cross. The question is why do we play so narrow? Do we not have confidence the central defenders can cope considering they have two defensive midfield player in front of them.

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, Reg Matthew's Cap said:

I’ve noticed this too, it’s not until a wide man receives the ball that a defender comes out to challenge so we are always in danger from an early cross. The question is why do we play so narrow? Do we not have confidence the central defenders can cope considering they have two defensive midfield player in front of them.

When you give wide players space like we do, you allow them to get the ball under control and build momentum before you can make your challenge. 

You also allow time to look up to assess the best crossing opportunity. 

You should never be more than ten yards from your man when out of possession and then only when play is elsewhere. 

That allows you to move as a pass is played. 

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, Reg Matthew's Cap said:

I’ve noticed this too, it’s not until a wide man receives the ball that a defender comes out to challenge so we are always in danger from an early cross. The question is why do we play so narrow? Do we not have confidence the central defenders can cope considering they have two defensive midfield player in front of them.

It's just a preference. Most really good chances are created through the middle, so if you push the opposition outwide then it allows them to cross the ball, because they can't go through the middle. 

We concede on average 22 crosses a game (5th highest) and we make 16 crosses a game (lowest) so I would suggest that it's very much a preference by Cocu that he feels that crosses are most likely to garner lesser quality opportunities so sets a system up that means we don't make many and we're prone to conceding them without giving away the middle of the pitch. Typically, it's the same for a lot of teams that stick with the 4-3-3 system. Leeds, who play 4-1-4-1 and get help from their wingers, concede the least crosses and make the most. 

I would say it's a by-product of the system and the set up. Nothing more. Bogle gets caught out too often but I don't consider him a bad defender, but he's more incline to take a risk. 

[roboto]

8 minutes ago, Reg Matthew's Cap said:

I’ve noticed this too, it’s not until a wide man receives the ball that a defender comes out to challenge so we are always in danger from an early cross. The question is why do we play so narrow? Do we not have confidence the central defenders can cope considering they have two defensive midfield player in front of them.

I think it's more a case of modern football tactics. How many teams (especially in top leagues across the world) regularly attack down the wings and whip crosses onto the head of a target man? I can't really think of any. Most teams tend to use wide attackers as inside forwards who cut inside and play a sharp pass into the box or perhaps a low cross for a poacher type forward to score. Gone are the days where you'd get a Duncan Ferguson type striker getting lots of headed opportunities from crosses each match. Most of this type of chance will come from set plays now, with open play being focussed on quick passes around the box trying to open up gaps in the defence. Teams are less likely to score from crosses into the box than a controlled pass into the box. Or that's how I see teams like Man City etc. attacking anyway.

I think a lot of the change has come down to the evolution of players in certain positions. Full backs are some of the fittest players on the pitch now and the goalkeepers are athletic and have lightning quick reactions. Not saying that this wasn't also the case back in the day, but it is the expected level now. Also pitch quality means that teams can keep control of the ball better with passes along the ground.

[Dambuster]

1 hour ago, roboto said:

I think it's more a case of modern football tactics. How many teams (especially in top leagues across the world) regularly attack down the wings and whip crosses onto the head of a target man? I can't really think of any. Most teams tend to use wide attackers as inside forwards who cut inside and play a sharp pass into the box or perhaps a low cross for a poacher type forward to score. Gone are the days where you'd get a Duncan Ferguson type striker getting lots of headed opportunities from crosses each match. Most of this type of chance will come from set plays now, with open play being focussed on quick passes around the box trying to open up gaps in the defence. Teams are less likely to score from crosses into the box than a controlled pass into the box. Or that's how I see teams like Man City etc. attacking anyway.

I think a lot of the change has come down to the evolution of players in certain positions. Full backs are some of the fittest players on the pitch now and the goalkeepers are athletic and have lightning quick reactions. Not saying that this wasn't also the case back in the day, but it is the expected level now. Also pitch quality means that teams can keep control of the ball better with passes along the ground.

Not sure I can buy in to the modern football tactics suggestion, In mentioning early crosses I was referring to any scenario which can occur when a wide player has too much time to either cross, lay it back, wait for a runner etc, at no time was I going back in time to a Duncan Ferguson or Frank Wignall era.

 

[Premier ram]

3 hours ago, Burtonram2066 said:

be strange why they are looking for a keeper; Smithies and Etheridge good keepers in the championship - granted they may lose one who wants first team football 

Etheridge and Roos could have a contest for 'prettiest goalkeeper' in the championship if we signed him 

 

Let Cardiff have Phillips and we will have Etheridge off them

[Dambuster]

22 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

Let Cardiff have Phillips and we will have Etheridge off them

Sorry, went off topic rambling on about stopping crosses. After Etheridge came  back from injury, speculation about a PL move coincided with a loss of form apparently. Not sure how they handle Philippines international games he has to attend.

[jimbo jones]

6 hours ago, Burtonram2066 said:

Always a difficult one to look at save quantity per appearance for a team relegated - Was the exact thing that skewed Pickford's figures for Sunderland before his move to Everton - now being shown for how average he actually is IMO when it 

The best figure for this the '% chance a keeper makes more saves vs expected saves in line with XG' - in this statistical analysis - Phillips comes second to Bialkowski in the championship. 

Roos 10th in the league 

Hamer 20th in the league 

 

It definitely shows how poor Hamer is to be a number one for us, maybe it also shows that Roos isn't that bad in this league? 

below Roos in terms of keeper quality that puts: Woodman / Lossl / Walton / David Reya 

 

Personally believe your keeper only needs to be competent - if you have a solid keeper that makes no mistakes (easier said than done) and makes those 'expected saves' - maybe its more important to look at the defensive unit infront of them? 

we can laude Bogle for his assists and attacking threat - However we concede 58% more crosses into the box from that side (yet to find a stat on conversion rates from either wing however) 

 

think midfield isn't a million miles off - bit of extra quality maybe for the heavy scheduling - and hopefully have 2 solid CB in ap artnership with a keeper 

we massively have to look at our options out wide both attacking and defensively IMO - Full backs that cant defend screams play 3-5-2 or a variant of 

This! Keepers always look better in crap teams where they have to make save after save. 
 

For me, what I want from a keeper is for them to be just solid. Minimal mistakes (there will always be the odd one), and having command of his area are is most  important to me. It’s no good making an unbelievable save, then making an absolutely clanger 2 minutes later.

[nogbad van 50]

4 hours ago, jimbo jones said:

This! Keepers always look better in crap teams where they have to make save after save. 
 

For me, what I want from a keeper is for them to be just solid. Minimal mistakes (there will always be the odd one), and having command of his area are is most  important to me. It’s no good making an unbelievable save, then making an absolutely clanger 2 minutes later.

With that, you’ve summed up our goalkeepers perfectly! 

[IlsonDerby]

On 28/07/2020 at 07:32, Gritty said:

Sorry posted this in the Bonne thread. I'm a season ticket holder at Charlton (my son is a fan and I live down here).

Phillips is superb. I'd sign him like a shot for Derby.  One thing is that although his distribution isn't bad, he's not a ball playing GK. Not sure if that's what Cocu is wanting? As a reliable stopper he is absolutely excellent.  As a season ticket holder, I voted him player of the year for Charlton (which he won).  For a GK in a relegated side to get POTY tells you a lot

I think the ‘distribution’ thing is a bit of a red herring. Clearly we want a Keeper who is happy to look around and pass it wide rather than lumping it upfield but I don’t think we’re expecting Pickford, Ederson or Allison levels of distribution. 

I’m more interested in how he fairs with crosses into the box? His general commanding of the box? 

[Anag Ram]

11 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I think the ‘distribution’ thing is a bit of a red herring. Clearly we want a Keeper who is happy to look around and pass it wide rather than lumping it upfield but I don’t think we’re expecting Pickford, Ederson or Allison levels of distribution. 

I’m more interested in how he fairs with crosses into the box? His general commanding of the box? 

I actually think we should forget the keeper in terms of ball retention. 

The pass back has become the default for too many of the team. 

I want to see more proactive running from the players in front of the defence so they don't need to pass back. 

It's okay to use the keeper when under pressure and to receive it back when you have space but there are also times when you need to be brave enough to run with the ball in the space ahead of you. 

Mind you, if we sign Kiefer Moore, the keeper can just lump it.