Coronavirus

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Where I work, the CTO has had a long career in Tech, the CMO in marketing, the CFO in Finance. And the CEO used to be CMO and has had a long career in he same industry. I imagine this is similar across most companies.

Boris Johnson used to be a journalist. Michael Gove used to be a journalist. Rabb used to be in the Foreign Office (fair enough).  Pritti Patel worked in PR. Rishi Sunak worked in finance, which is probably why he is the only one that seems competent. Matt Hancock has never had any role within health.

Raab did a 2 year trainng contract with law firm Linklater's before leaving "shortly after" (code for he was carp).

So basically did the photocopying and wasn't even very good at that.....?

 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The figure that I gave is where Covid-19 is mentioned on the death certificate though, not the cause of death.

That's the main point of confusion - the blurring of lines between dying of or with Coronavirus. In the end, there can only ever be an approximate death toll, and you can only determine the bounds and confidence levels based upon actual deaths this year compared to the number of deaths in 'normal' years.

[TramRam]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

 

What I don't understand is how the likes of Trump can be beating them with a stick when he's ignored the bulk of the advice that was provided. If we need to look at the WHO's role in this, a notion I agree with, then some self-assessment is only fair too. 

 

I was in Clearwater Florida in the January after 9-11, In their local boozer they seemed to have a fascination of all things English, They were impressed with my Knowledge of the USA from the War of Independence and WW1 and WW2, They had little to no knowledge of England or as a matter anything outside of the States.

The highlight from the above imo is playing into the very same hands that I have spoken about, Those people will lap it up, They see their President pointing a finger at those he sees as responsible for all this, MAGA is their mantra, In Michigan yesterday there was a huge protest against the Governor to end their lockdown as(like us and most of the known World)they are having their freedom sacrificed for the better and they don't like it.

Not all USA citizens are like the above may I add.

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That's the main point of confusion - the blurring of lines between dying of or with Coronavirus. In the end, there can only ever be an approximate death toll, and you can only determine the bounds and confidence levels based upon actual deaths this year compared to the number of deaths in 'normal' years.

I argued this point for a while.

Having seen the ONS stats thoug, the other day, I held my hands up and admitted I was completely wrong.

It's clear this thing is killing people but also somehow contributing to other deaths too.

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I argued this point for a while.

Having seen the ONS stats thoug, the other day, I held my hands up and admitted I was completely wrong.

It's clear this thing is killing people but also somehow contributing to other deaths too.

Agreed. The question to ask is, of course, "Would those people have died of something else if they hadn't have caught COVID-19?

The answer is just as easy. "Yes, some undoubtedly, but perhaps not yet". 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

No one prepared me for this isolation. Maybe if I’d had a few months in Welford Road I would have been more prepared. I grew up thinking survival was taking a door off its hinges and sitting under that.

[Gritstone Ram]

56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I argued this point for a while.

Having seen the ONS stats thoug, the other day, I held my hands up and admitted I was completely wrong.

It's clear this thing is killing people but also somehow contributing to other deaths too.

I have seen that the rise in none Covid related deaths could be due to people not going to A & E with heart attacks or strokes because they fear catching the Virus more than their current illness. I don’t know if this is true but there may be some truth in it.

[ramit]

10 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

No one prepared me for this isolation. Maybe if I’d had a few months in Welford Road I would have been more prepared. I grew up thinking survival was taking a door off its hinges and sitting under that.

Never thought that having been a recluse for decades would have prepared me for anything worthwhile.

As many grit their teeth in isolation anxiety it's pretty much the same ole same ole for me.

Not making light of people suffering in isolation, just finding life a bit odd is all.

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I have seen that the rise in none Covid related deaths could be due to people not going to A & E with heart attacks or strokes because they fear catching the Virus more than their current illness. I don’t know if this is true but there may be some truth in it.

The Chief Medical Officer alluded to this also.

Spoke to a friend at Stoke NHS yesterday, she said the place is quieter than normal, hardly anyone coming in.

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I have seen that the rise in none Covid related deaths could be due to people not going to A & E with heart attacks or strokes because they fear catching the Virus more than their current illness. I don’t know if this is true but there may be some truth in it.

They did say there is a significant drop in people going to A&E and suggested it could be due to a fear of catching the virus. Having said that, I'm can't imagine someone suffering a heart attack isn't going to call an ambulance.

My thoughts are that the drop in numbers is down to two things. 1) people that should still be going but are indeed too afraid and 2) people who probably didn't really need to go in the first place and are now deciding not to go - Depending on what your problem then 1) is a very dangerous thing to do but 2) is a good thing.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

1 hour ago, TramRam said:

In Michigan yesterday there was a huge protest against the Governor to end their lockdown as(like us and most of the known World)they are having their freedom sacrificed for the better and they don't like it.

And they have guns.

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I have seen that the rise in none Covid related deaths could be due to people not going to A & E with heart attacks or strokes because they fear catching the Virus more than their current illness. I don’t know if this is true but there may be some truth in it.

Old (ill) guy a couple of doors down fell down stairs, should have gone to hospital for treatment. Uh huh, no way. Stayed home. Dead now. ?

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Can you offer anything to confirm this as the scientists themselves seem to be saying the exact opposite is true.

Just going on the basis that every day the briefings include the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer of the country.

It would seem they are having a lot of input into things, along with SAGE. 

Just the impression I get and could be wrong.

Who are the scientists saying otherwise and how decorated are they compared to the Chief Scientific Officer?

 

[RamNut]

4 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

One strange statement from the briefing was from Sir Patrick Vallance he said the ONS death rates were people who had Covid on their death certificate and they may not necessarily have been tested for it. So is someone guessing?

Not necessarily.  If you were admitted to intensive care because of sudden acute lung failure that materialised very quickly -  which can only be caused by a virus - and if it matches the symptoms of other victims who have been positively tested,  then this virus is likely to be named on the death certificate. people are dying in such numbers that not every one will have had a confirmed test. 
 

 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just going on the basis that every day the briefings include the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer of the country.

It would seem they are having a lot of input into things, along with SAGE. 

Just the impression I get and could be wrong.

Who are the scientists saying otherwise and how decorated are they compared to the Chief Scientific Officer?

 

Ah, maybe this is wy I'm not aware of it. I stopped watching the briefings some time back now.

As for those saying that their advice has been ignored, I've not checked credentials to be honest. I'll pull some links together when I'm less sleepy and you can have a peep yourself. There's a lot out there!

[1of4]

3 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

I have seen that the rise in none Covid related deaths could be due to people not going to A & E with heart attacks or strokes because they fear catching the Virus more than their current illness. I don’t know if this is true but there may be some truth in it.

While there may be a percentage of people, who are suffering from a major health issue not wanting to go to A&E. I'm sure most people faced with a life threatening ailment would still seek medical advice, coronavirus or no coronavirus.

I'm guessing the biggest percentage of the people who are now avoiding going to A&E are suffering from minor complaints. Many that are capable of being treated at home. Maybe after this crisis is over, people may come to realise that there's no need to go to A&E for every little thing. So easing the strain that ever A&E department is put under during a normal day.

[Chester40]

5 hours ago, 1of4 said:

While there may be a percentage of people, who are suffering from a major health issue not wanting to go to A&E. I'm sure most people faced with a life threatening ailment would still seek medical advice, coronavirus or no coronavirus.

I'm guessing the biggest percentage of the people who are now avoiding going to A&E are suffering from minor complaints. Many that are capable of being treated at home. Maybe after this crisis is over, people may come to realise that there's no need to go to A&E for every little thing. So easing the strain that ever A&E department is put under during a normal day.

Most times I have been to A&E a significant portion are avoidable accidents that are no longer happening ..ie minor car accident injuries, kids and adults with contact sport injuries, adults with booze related falls/broken hands from fighting and 'work' related injuries (builders dropping stuff on their feet, kids banging heads on the playground etc). 

Plus a lot of people go to their GP with bumps, bruises and are told its maybe an idea to go to A&E for a scan /X Ray etc. Now they are just waiting and seeing...and generally its only bruised ribs, ain't internal bleeding etc. There is a culture of the medical profession thinking 'safety first' where they don't want to be sued for ignoring symptoms. Anyone with children has probably taken their child to A&E with a nasty bump to the head, or phoned for advice about a weird rash and taken them 'just in case'..now that advice will have turned on its head. Be interesting to see what changes and what quickly goes straight back to normal. 

[GboroRam]

5 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Most times I have been to A&E a significant portion are avoidable accidents that are no longer happening ..ie minor car accident injuries, kids and adults with contact sport injuries, adults with booze related falls/broken hands from fighting and 'work' related injuries (builders dropping stuff on their feet, kids banging heads on the playground etc). 

Plus a lot of people go to their GP with bumps, bruises and are told its maybe an idea to go to A&E for a scan /X Ray etc. Now they are just waiting and seeing...and generally its only bruised ribs, ain't internal bleeding etc. There is a culture of the medical profession thinking 'safety first' where they don't want to be sued for ignoring symptoms. Anyone with children has probably taken their child to A&E with a nasty bump to the head, or phoned for advice about a weird rash and taken them 'just in case'..now that advice will have turned on its head. Be interesting to see what changes and what quickly goes straight back to normal. 

That's true. Every time I find myself in A&E there's at least one child in school uniform with a sport injury and a group of drunk chavs who've ended up in some aggo. 

[Gone]

To all the non believers 

[Angry Ram]

11 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

They did say there is a significant drop in people going to A&E and suggested it could be due to a fear of catching the virus. Having said that, I'm can't imagine someone suffering a heart attack isn't going to call an ambulance.

My thoughts are that the drop in numbers is down to two things. 1) people that should still be going but are indeed too afraid and 2) people who probably didn't really need to go in the first place and are now deciding not to go - Depending on what your problem then 1) is a very dangerous thing to do but 2) is a good thing.

Less car accidents. 
Less boozed up Friday nights. 
Less sports injuries. 
Leas everything really. 
Yours points are equally valid though.