Coronavirus

[Gritstone Ram]

I’ve heard a few things like O Blood group have a far higher survival rate. As for masks I think they stop the spread if you have the correct one but I heard that the majority of spreading is done at home when you’re not likely to be wearing a mask.

[Comrade 86]

40 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Or stopping you rubbing your face.

Interesting (anecdotal) cultural aspect in there though, broad brush though it might be, suggestion is that Europeans wear masks to stop getting the disease whereas Asians wear them in the hope they don't spread it. Not to say all Asians have it but I found the point an interesting one, and not in favour of Europeans.

There is definitely some truth to this but it is as you say quite 'broad brush'. On your first point and the benefits of their usage overall, if for example, when shopping for food where exposure to higher head counts is unavoidable, washing your hands before leaving, wearing a mask, then washing hands immediately upon return must surely reduce overall risk of both spreading and contracting the disease. 

37 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It was one of the things I noticed in Singapore. If you can a cold, you wore a mask as a matter of politeness.

I've noticed this too, in Japan and Hong Kong. A girlfriend who worked as an English language tutor in Taiwan for several years says the same thing too but while she suggested it was partially out of politeness, she said it's not purely for altruistic reasons. Do they have greater experience of these types of disease, I wonder?

The jury is out as to whether the numbers are correct for China but Taiwan, Singapore, Korea etc do seem to have coped well numerically despite their proximity to the virus origin and the high traffic levels to and from China.

[Rev]

12 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I can't find the article I read earlier, which was in layman's English. This is a highly technical paper in the Lancet from a couple of days ago. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhae/article/PIIS2352-3026(20)30109-5/fulltext

Having read that, my layman's interpretation of the risk for thrombophiliacs(sic) is no higher than for any other hospital admission. 

People with undiagnosed clotting conditions will always be at greater risk, simply due to the lying around/lack of mobility you'd expect in a hospital bed. That's why the fitting of stockings, for example, has become the norm during any period of bed rest in hospital, diagnosed at risk or not.

I didn't see anything in the article that suggested otherwise, and people with underlying pre existing but diagnosed conditions are hopefully at no more risk than anyone else.

 

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

39 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Guessing you're joking here though I have seen some debate as to whether masks create a false sense of security - that is will folk relax other safety regimes? I'd like to think most folk are smart enough not to, to be honest. I think some countries are now handing basic masks out free to members of the public which I think makes sense as if this is to be adopted as a wider measure, the more folk using them, the more significant the benefit, or so logic decrees. 

On this note, I berated the old man into buying some. He's recently overcome cancer and his immune system will be nowhere near what it was but he still insists on going to the supermarket even though he can get prioritised for home delivery, because, as he puts it, 'others' needs are greater', an argument that got short shrift from me. The compromise was some reasonable quality ones (not hospital quality but suitable for 30 mins in Tesco etc) which he duly bought after I relentlessly guilt-tripped him over it. I was surprised at how easy they were to find to be honest & insisted he mail me one as proof that he'd actually bought some. Instead I received 25 this week with a slightly terse note contained telling me to practice what I preach. Fair one I guess!

Have to say I'm still really angry that some NHS and care workers etc are still awaiting PPE but I think that's a subject that's been done to death on here, including by me, so perhaps the time for that argument is after the event when all the facts are known. What I would say is that I hope folk on here will grab some even if only for supermarket visits - there are plenty out there that would not be deemed suitable for hospital usage. Buying some does not deprive NHS staff so it's hard to argue it's not a sensible and worthwhile precaution.

No I wasnt joking.

Seen it said that masks are only good for stopping spreading the virus as opposed to stop people from getting it.

Seen it said that healthy people should not wear one as the most surface could give them virus somewhere to attach to.

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seen it said that healthy people should not wear one as the most surface could give them virus somewhere to attach to.

Link please, because that is an astounding suggestion.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I think some countries are now handing basic masks out free to members of the public which I think makes sense as if this is to be adopted as a wider measure, the more folk using them, the more significant the benefit, or so logic decrees. 

I thought the 'suggestion' was that masks might stop/lessen the spread of the virus but they also keep it within the mask - so you're 're-inhaling' it?

[Rev]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No I wasnt joking.

Seen it said that masks are only good for stopping spreading the virus as opposed to stop people from getting it.

Seen it said that healthy people should not wear one as the most surface could give them virus somewhere to attach to.

I've seen that too. 

It was on the WHO original guidelines, stating that if you were otherwise healthy, the incorrect handling of the mask would put you more at risk than not wearing one at all.

That may have changed mind, but it was certainly the case at some point.

[G STAR RAM]

35 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Link please, because that is an astounding suggestion.

I'm trying to remember where I read or heard it.

Will have a think about what I have been reading and listening too! 

Just read later responses and see that @reverendo de duivel has seen/heard it too, just so you know that I am not making it up!

[Ewe Ram]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Surely youd expect the experts to giving clear advice on this?

Not if the actual research is inconclusive, no. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said:

Not if the actual research is inconclusive, no. 

Which is fair enough but calls into question why you would put your full faith in their 'expert opinion' on a completely new virus where research is still very much ongoing.

Anyway, that's your decision.

Stay safe and thank you for your service ?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

Everything I read about the drugs they are trialling are on patients who seem to be on their last legs. I worry we are not giving drugs early enough.

On Cheltenham (and a Stereophonics concert) - the area least affected in this country for hospital admissions - The South West!! Although I don’t think it should have happened.

All true pathways out are a vaccine. However even a pretty good vaccine at 60-70% efficient should be good enough for the herd immunity to be implemented.I still think this vaccine will be ready this autumn. My bigger worry is if politics gets on the way. As soon as a formula is known - give it to all companies who can produce it. However I don’t trust the pharma’s to do that as their greedy capitalist companies.

Wow, talk about optimism.

I hope you're right but very much doubt it. My daughter is a pharmacologist and my brother in law is a research chemist working at Canterbury University who has been co-opted onto a project trying to develop a vaccine. Both reckon there will be nothing available this year. Even with a drug being fast tracked (it normally takes years from concept to release) there has to be a period of testing for longer term side effects.

I'm sure the pharmaceutical companies (obviously they're capitalist - they're there to make a profit) will be racing to be the first to get something out there that they can then patent. 

 

[ramit]

Oh boy

"The immune system has many components that work together in protecting the body from foreign invaders. One of the most important types of immune cells is T lymphocytes or T cells, a type of white blood cell that acts as the core of adaptive immunity, the system that modifies the immune response to specific pathogens.  Now, a team from the United States and China revealed evidence that the coronavirus disease, caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), attacks the immune system’s T lymphocytes. The worrying findings highlight the destructive power of the novel coronavirus, which can destroy the immune system, leaving the patient unable to fight off the infection."

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

[uttoxram75]

An added complication to what to believe is the way the WHO is funded and how big pharma and the Gates foundation control where and how the money WHO receives is targeted. The WHO is maybe not as independent as we thought.

The more you read about Gates vaccination projects the more you start to wonder about his true motives as well. 

What the duck can we believe nowadays. Its sad but when any organisation or expert says something I have started to google who funds them...."follow the money" has never been more valid than in todays complicated world.

[Tamworthram]

29 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

I've seen that too. 

It was on the WHO original guidelines, stating that if you were otherwise healthy, the incorrect handling of the mask would put you more at risk than not wearing one at all.

That may have changed mind, but it was certainly the case at some point.

How can you be more at risk (assuming you're not sharing it with an infected person)? I don't understand. The link would be very interesting. Surely the worse that can happen is you don't use it properly and it doesn't prevent you spreading the virus if you're infected.

It sounds logical that, if you're not infected then wearing a mask isn't necessary. However, I was under the impression that many people will only have very minor symptoms and some will actually be asymptomatic. One seemingly innocuous cough or sneeze from such a person may spread the virus.  

[jono]

8 minutes ago, ramit said:

Oh boy

"The immune system has many components that work together in protecting the body from foreign invaders. One of the most important types of immune cells is T lymphocytes or T cells, a type of white blood cell that acts as the core of adaptive immunity, the system that modifies the immune response to specific pathogens.  Now, a team from the United States and China revealed evidence that the coronavirus disease, caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), attacks the immune system’s T lymphocytes. The worrying findings highlight the destructive power of the novel coronavirus, which can destroy the immune system, leaving the patient unable to fight off the infection."

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

I think we have to be very careful here. It is a documented fact that the vast majority of people who contract covid19 ( I am talking 70+% ) have no symptoms. People also recover from Covid given reasonable medical intervention. This is not HIV. I am sure because it and HIV are both viral agents there will be some common characteristics but mentioning them as similar isn’t helpful. Actually it is irresponsible 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

How can you be more at risk (assuming you're not sharing it with an infected person)? I don't understand. The link would be very interesting. Surely the worse that can happen is you don't use it properly and it doesn't prevent you spreading the virus if you're infected.

It sounds logical that, if you're not infected then wearing a mask isn't necessary. However, I was under the impression that many people will only have very minor symptoms and some will actually be asymptomatic. One seemingly innocuous cough or sneeze from such a person may spread the virus.  

The logic used was that the mask provides a surface for the virus to attack to.

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

The logic used was that the mask provides a surface for the virus to attack to.

So they must be saying that the mask may become infected whilst you're not wearing it? I guess I can see the logic but surely they could issue some pretty basic instructions - wash your hands (if possible) before handling the mask, when not wearing it keep it safe (maybe in a plastic bag or something), don't share it with others, never let anyone else handle it etc.

 

[Rev]

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

How can you be more at risk (assuming you're not sharing it with an infected person)? I don't understand. The link would be very interesting. Surely the worse that can happen is you don't use it properly and it doesn't prevent you spreading the virus if you're infected.

It sounds logical that, if you're not infected then wearing a mask isn't necessary. However, I was under the impression that many people will only have very minor symptoms and some will actually be asymptomatic. One seemingly innocuous cough or sneeze from such a person may spread the virus.  

I'm going off memory here, but it was the technique involved in removing the mask, and the avoidance of touching your face while wearing one.

As you say, it may stop you spreading the virus if asymptomatic, but by touching the outer surface of the mask while removing it, you could be actually increasing your own risk of catching it.

 

[ramit]

21 minutes ago, jono said:

I think we have to be very careful here. It is a documented fact that the vast majority of people who contract covid19 ( I am talking 70+% ) have no symptoms. People also recover from Covid given reasonable medical intervention. This is not HIV. I am sure because it and HIV are both viral agents there will be some common characteristics but mentioning them as similar isn’t helpful. Actually it is irresponsible 

Scientific research is irresponsible?

The headline is actually not in line with the article, as according to it, HIV destroys the T cells, but Corona takes it hostage.

Is it 70% in the UK?  It's nearer 50% here, but still a huge number.

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

So they must be saying that the mask may become infected whilst you're not wearing it? I guess I can see the logic but surely they could issue some pretty basic instructions - wash your hands (if possible) before handling the mask, when not wearing it keep it safe (maybe in a plastic bag or something), don't share it with others, never let anyone else handle it etc.

 

I assume this is why masks are single use only.

Wear it, it could become infected by others, but as long as you remove it correctly, dispose of it then wash your hands you should be fine.

Put in a plastic bag, then re use it, and the virus could be all over it when you come to use it again.