The Politics Thread 2020

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, maxjam said:

There are so many 2 minute clips on youtube/twitter from 'trusted' sources that show Trump alluding to injecting disinfectant/using UV light without giving the full context ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/trump-coronavirus-treatment-disinfectant

The actual press conference was about an hour long and Trump was directly talking to Bill Bryan (Homeland Security Science and Technology Lead) who had just been talking at the podium about different avenues of research the US has been undertaking including various bleeches and disinfectants that they have been testing on coronavirus in saliva.

I'm not denying it was clumsy but it certainly isn't what it is being made out to be. But hey, Orange Man Bad.

Watch from approx 33 mins

 

Chinese whispers and all that.

Seen one outlet using the headline "...Trump says bleach will cure Coronavirus"

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

15 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

So what am I then?

The closest one of us to Hitler if you believe the website........?

[Highgate]

Becoming more libertarian and further to the left every time I do this it seems.  Clearly this test views any concern for the environment as a 'left-wing' viewpoint.  Incidentally did anyone answer anything other than 'strongly disagree' to 'Astrology accurately explains many things' and if so Why? ?

 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Chinese whispers and all that.

Seen one outlet using the headline "...Trump says bleach will cure Coronavirus"

I'm not gonna deny that he doesn't help himself - he is in no way shape or form presidential and seems to be purely driven by his ego. 

That said, the media reporting of most of what he says is disgusting.  Its fake news at best, deceptively edited with context removed at worst.  For example, the following BBC article mashes together 2 different conversations 20-30 mins apart and gives vague context at best.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

[i-Ram]

@G STAR RAM and @maxjam I think you are cutting Trump too much slack.

l watched the whole briefing last night, in what has become an essential bedtime watch for me (sad I know).

Whilst you are right to make the points you have, you have some benefit of rewatching it and considering other viewpoints. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but as I listened to it live last night it did seem at the time he was advocating the consuming of a type of disinfectant solution and using some form of skin radiation to attack the virus. The rambling off message nature of his presentations leads to much confusion as to what he actually has said, and as a viewer you are quite heavily interested to hear and laugh at what he says next.

I may be wrong, but not far wrong, in saying that America has more idiots per population than any other developed Country in the world, and if he said use a chainsaw to cut your hair a few would think that’s a good idea, why didn’t I think of that. 2 to 3 weeks ago he was heavily recommending the use of hydroxychloroquine as a therapy, with the strap line ‘what have you got to lose’. It seems that medical trials in the last few days show it can do more harm than good with Covid treatment, and surprise surprise an eminent Doctor in the administration has been transferred to other duties for revealing that fact. Last night, for the second night running, Trump said he had not seen the report. He has also opted to keep Dr Fauci away from the mike over the last 2 weeks as he has not been so supportive of Trump’s desire to open America again. Fauci is much more fearful that giving Americans mixed messages will lead to significant outbreaks occurring and reoccurring in the metropolitan areas of the larger States.

Trump has a number of qualities, but in my view he is a medical menace.  

[GboroRam]

58 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Who's that? 

Not you. Wouldn't accuse anyone based on a whim so I'm not saying any user names. Not even sure if they post any more. But one person made me wonder.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

@G STAR RAM and @maxjam I think you are cutting Trump too much slack.

I consider myself reasonably intelligent...

See, it's not just Trump that makes ridiculous comments.

 

[Guest]

@i-Ram in all seriousness now.

From what I have seen, it appears that Trump was referring to research that is happening rather than just throwing an idea out there to go and get a daily fix of dettol.

I'm no medical expert so have no idea if what he said is completely ridiculous or not and I am guessing that it is the same with 95% of people and they have just decided to twist his words and use it as another stick to beat him with.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

31 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

The closest one of us to Hitler if you believe the website........?

I think knowing where the dot may position itself may influence some answers to ensure it goes somewhere near the top right. I’d have to have a bath in dettol if it went over the other side.

[Angry Ram]

Facist bar steward. 

[i-Ram]

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

@i-Ram in all seriousness now.

From what I have seen, it appears that Trump was referring to research that is happening rather than just throwing an idea out there to go and get a daily fix of dettol.

I'm no medical expert so have no idea if what he said is completely ridiculous or not and I am guessing that it is the same with 95% of people and they have just decided to twist his words and use it as another stick to beat him with.

The research guy was simply explaining the findings to date suggesting that temperature, humidity and uv light were all factors that are being seen to have a reducing effect as to the life of the virus. He also advised that bleach, disinfectant and 95% alcohol solutions were all good man made solutions in different degrees for killing off the virus. However, he prefaced all of this by referring to hard, non porous surfaces.

Trump himself took it to the next step of suggesting possible human benefits, and yes in all seriousness I can imagine a good few Americans who only watched that briefing last night thinking a swig of disinfectant, or a rub down with bleach, is a plausible and quite low cost solution to keep the virus at bay.

Your counter arguments have some merit, but to me it’s like the awarding of a real time penalty by a ref. Many believers leave the match thinking that was a nailed on penalty, but later Tv pundits with the benefit of slow mo and other angles provide a completely different viewpoint. 

“Mabel go get me a Budweiser from the fridge, and whilst you are there can you get me a Dettol chaser too sweetcheeks”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwixvp38iYHpAhXCQkEAHTiFAlkQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2020%2Fmar%2F24%2Fcoronavirus-cure-kills-man-after-trump-touts-chloroquine-phosphate&usg=AOvVaw12DvThmITFIlStX-RNNjZy

[Tamworthram]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

@i-Ram in all seriousness now.

From what I have seen, it appears that Trump was referring to research that is happening rather than just throwing an idea out there to go and get a daily fix of dettol.

I'm no medical expert so have no idea if what he said is completely ridiculous or not and I am guessing that it is the same with 95% of people and they have just decided to twist his words and use it as another stick to beat him with.

 

I think that is true but to float the idea in a live press conference in front of millions of viewers, some of whom may be quite impressionable, is a little reckless to me. Why couldn't he discuss that in a private conversation or meeting?

I don't think you need to be a medical expert to assume injecting disinfectant may not be a good idea but, if it's worthy of investigation, talk about it with the experts don't plant the idea in the heads of the masses.

Can you imagine if Hancock had turned to Witty and said something like "isn't smoking a possible protection from the virus? Maybe we should investigate that"

[King Kevin]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Judging him by the political map he posted earlier, I think he's talking about @King Kevin ? 

I have a standing joke with  a few on here that I am to the right of Hitler but obviously mellowed in my old age.

'

[Coneheadjohn]

6 hours ago, Chester40 said:

I don't think anyone really thinks they don't have the time to practise a dance for 5mins.

But personally I don't get it. What's the point? Just seems a touch self indulgent, misjudged.

If my family had lost a loved one would I find it amusing, touching? 

I was sat 'with' a group of Social Care staff on Wed...all going out on visits, debating the merits of wearing PPE. 

If I had suggested why don't we come up with a dance routine and post it I can tell you they would have been totally aghast. 

I’ve been reading a lot on this yesterday and honestly I’m glad they’re doing something to make themselves smile.

I do get the context of people not being treated and them doing a dance but I’ve been in the Hallamshire quite a bit in the last month and if doing a dance lifts spirits them so be it.

 

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

@i-Ram in all seriousness now.

From what I have seen, it appears that Trump was referring to research that is happening rather than just throwing an idea out there to go and get a daily fix of dettol.

I'm no medical expert so have no idea if what he said is completely ridiculous or not and I am guessing that it is the same with 95% of people and they have just decided to twist his words and use it as another stick to beat him with.

When your kids were nippers, would you have left open bottles of bleach around them while they were unsupervised and if not, why not?

I'm sorry but I find your suggestion that you need to be a medical expert to know that internal usage of disinfectant is really not the ticket really quite disingenuous. As I'm sure you are aware, bleach contains corrosive chemicals and while just drinking it (in small volumes) is not often sufficient to kill someone, injecting it into one's blood-system or trying to flush out lungs with it most definitely won't end well. Are you seriously suggesting that you are unaware of these facts?

As to the more valid points you've made in earlier posts about context and the way some are choosing to report Trump's words, it is true that Trump only mooted this as 'something worth looking at' rather than openly advocating any such practice the way he did with anti-malarials, but I find it surprising that you are trying to play down his comments and instead seeking to make the media the villain of the peace, no matter how biased their stance may be. After all, it's one thing to muse over such thoughts, it's another thing altogether to voice them in a live public broadcast. I'd politely suggest that that's the only context that really matters. Nobody has defended the press after all, they've simply taken issue with with Trump mooting a course of action that some moron, or worse still a child, may misinterpret with tragic outcomes. 

Frankly, there seems little point in Trump even wheeling out the experts for his briefings as he always manages to find a way to undermine even the worthwhile science discussed, as was the case again yesterday.  

[Coneheadjohn]

53 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

 

Trump has a number of qualities, but in my view he is a medical menace.  

[Highgate]

54 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

@i-Ram in all seriousness now.

From what I have seen, it appears that Trump was referring to research that is happening rather than just throwing an idea out there to go and get a daily fix of dettol.

I'm no medical expert so have no idea if what he said is completely ridiculous or not and I am guessing that it is the same with 95% of people and they have just decided to twist his words and use it as another stick to beat him with.

What research into injecting disinfectant directly into the body or lungs is currently ongoing?

That is what Trump suggested researching and apparently could kill a patient pretty rapidly if attempted.

Was he getting confused with research into the effect disinfectant and UV has on the virus when it is on an inert surface?  Given some people in the US think his opinions are far more reliable than the media or 'experts', he should be incredibly careful about the things he says.  Especially when talking directly about issues pertaining to human health during a global pandemic.  

[ariotofmyown]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I think that is true but to float the idea in a live press conference in front of millions of viewers, some of whom may be quite impressionable, is a little reckless to me. Why couldn't he discuss that in a private conversation or meeting?

I don't think you need to be a medical expert to assume injecting disinfectant may not be a good idea but, if it's worthy of investigation, talk about it with the experts don't plant the idea in the heads of the masses.

Can you imagine if Hancock had turned to Witty and said something like "isn't smoking a possible protection from the virus? Maybe we should investigate that"

The situation is farcical. Why do so some posters think possible slightly exaggerated news reports are of more importance than a senile freak being the actual president of the USA.

It's like if the media reported that over 1000 people have died drinking bleach after seeing Trump's ramblings. You'd have people on here moaning that the actual figure was only 1004 and 'over 1000' was just sensationalising. Others would be querying how many people normally die each day drinking bleach, or that they would have killed themselves anyway, and bleach actually causes less problems that jumping in front of train.

[ariotofmyown]

5 hours ago, TramRam said:

The Clintons have many skeletons in their cupboards, Money is their driving force, Trump has many skeletons in his cupboard, Money is his driving force.

I used to think he was entertaining, Now in all honesty...I think he's Mad.

I'm sure Hilary Clinton has some skeletons in her cupboard, like most politicians. Trump may have yet more skeletons in his cupboard, but who cares when there is so much out in the open showing the world what a senile and vile human is actually is. Most of it coming directly out of his own mouth.

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm sure Hilary Clinton has some skeletons in her cupboard, like most politicians. Trump may have yet more skeletons in his cupboard, but who cares when there is so much out in the open showing the world what a senile and vile human is actually is. Most of it coming directly out of his own mouth.

Hilary has SOME skeletons?

Jesus ducking Christ. Where have you been?