Trialist & Martin

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

And then what happens when he does play three academy players in the starting XI? You boo them off. You boo them off at half-time. You boo them off for keeping the ball. You boo them off at the end.

Not good, but why keep throwing Whittaker in then as he looks lost. Try Sibley or another.

[Carnero]

7 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

This fanbase is a mess at the minute. No idea what it wants.

You've got some fans criticising the manager and calling for him to bring in youth players constantly. The amount of crap I've seen on Twitter recently begging for Sibley to start. Reacting with crying emojis when he's not in the team. He's a kid ffs.

And then what happens when he does play three academy players in the starting XI? You boo them off. You boo them off at half-time. You boo them off for keeping the ball. You boo them off at the end.

Some of us need to have a look at ourselves. We are the problem, at times. 

This reminds me of the first half on Wednesday when 18 year old Jason Knight was the ONLY player trying to get things going, pressing high, making runs into space, turning on the ball, etc... and what happens? He doesn't "shooooooot" (with his wrong foot) when the knuckle draggers are frustrated with the team, choosing instead to keep possession in the final third, and there's a chorus of groans and moans from the stands. ?

[jono]

46 minutes ago, Ramslad1992 said:

That bit where Dowell stupidly tried to keep the ball in play only to kick it our instead of get the throw in was the icing on the cake of today... I'd rather play our own kids than other teams kids.

That’s not on ..... I am no fan of Dowell but that was just a bit of bad luck. To be honest I took my hat off to him because at least he was prepared to bust a gut to try and keep the ball and do something. You have to give credit when someone tries otherwise we’d all better give up 

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Players like Dowell are being given chance - why not Trialist? Or Archie Brown?

He plays Whittaker as his choice, why him then?!

Because he has no wingers and therefore that is why Whittaker is paying. I’m only guessing of course but I’m guessing he also doesn’t think it’s either right environment or the others are better. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, AdamRam said:

Because he has no wingers and therefore that is why Whittaker is paying.

There's wingers in the U23s or U18s - think they're as good as Whittaker. but Cocu seems to have picked on him.

[Ramslad1992]

15 minutes ago, jono said:

That’s not on ..... I am no fan of Dowell but that was just a bit of bad luck. To be honest I took my hat off to him because at least he was prepared to bust a gut to try and keep the ball and do something. You have to give credit when someone tries otherwise we’d all better give up 

Yes he tried but there was no need to try... we were insistent on long throws into the box (God knows why as they won nearly everything in the box) which was clearly the 'game plan' and it was a perfect chance to do so. If merely trying is enough then give our youth players a chance so they can get experience to either become first teamers or enough experience to sell on. I'm not knocking the effort more the poor execution, sometimes loans don't work out and this is a brilliant example.

[Uptherams]

3 hours ago, Nick_Ram said:

This isn't intended to start a rumour, but i always think that if a player really wants to play he'll play through small niggles.

It seems Jack Marriott has more than his fair share of these. Wouldn't be surprised to see him leave in January.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Marriott, Waghorn, Lawrence and Dowell all leave. 

[Millenniumram]

I’m not sure trialist is near being ready yet if I’m being honest, he’s got time on his side though. At least a couple of years to reach his potential, and I’m sure he probably will before then. But the last thing we want to do right now is throw young players into this squad unnecessarily if they’re unready, with the seeming awful attitude around the team. Not exactly the role models we want around our young players. Putting him in a struggling team could ruin his development. Maybe I’m wrong and he is ready like the likes of Knight and Whittaker, but I’m not sure he quite stands out at that level yet. If he’s not, then the best thing to do will be to leave him in the less toxic U23s to develop properly until he’s ready.

I have to say as well that despite the clamour for two up top on here, I’m not entirely convinced it’s the right way to go. Personally, I think we should just stick with what our original plan was, and revert back to a proper 433 with Martin/ Waghorn as the man up top. One thing I would say mind is that if we were to go two up top, we can’t be relying on Marriott there. He’s never fit and he’s been in crap form for a long time. Virtually non existent in general play. It’s Martin and Waghorn for me if we do try that again.

[rynny]

5 hours ago, goldstar said:

And someone like Dowell is? Hes finding the net regularly, stick him on the pitch! 

 

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

As poster said, and Dowell is?! 

Comparing JHI and Dowell is like comparing Martin and Holmes. They do not play the same position. JHI isn't missing out because of Dowell.

[AdamRam]

9 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

There's wingers in the U23s or U18s - think they're as good as Whittaker. but Cocu seems to have picked on him.

Is that just your option though  ?

What would you pal do to turn this around ?

[DCFC Ram]

10 hours ago, jono said:

That’s not on ..... I am no fan of Dowell but that was just a bit of bad luck. To be honest I took my hat off to him because at least he was prepared to bust a gut to try and keep the ball and do something. You have to give credit when someone tries otherwise we’d all better give up 

Any footballer would have seen the risk and likelihood of it happening. It was a schoolboy error. He should have know that the better option was to let it run out and take the throw. After all, the single thing that he players seemed to have been told was to give the ball to Holmes for him to launch his long throw...

oh hang on, that went when Holmes was taken off..

so the usual throw in tactic then, watch Lawrence hide himself, watch the rest of the players stand too far away, watch Martin elbowing their boy up the line - wait for Bogle or Waghorn to make a run and, if we're lucky get another throw in

 

[Sith Happens]

10 hours ago, jono said:

That’s not on ..... I am no fan of Dowell but that was just a bit of bad luck. To be honest I took my hat off to him because at least he was prepared to bust a gut to try and keep the ball and do something. You have to give credit when someone tries otherwise we’d all better give up 

Half the problem right now. Lots of these players are low on confidence, they are lambasted for not playing it forward or making 'that' pass but if they try and it goes wrong then they are lambasted for it.

Rather see a player try and get it wrong, than not try.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

I get the impression that Cocu likes to spend quite a lot of time with any player (youth or otherwise) on the training pitch with the first team before they have chance of playing.

Because Whitaker and Knight have been doing the training and trialist Sibley etc have not then Cocu would first want a few  weeks with them first. (Taking then out of u23/18’s).

[Archied]

12 hours ago, Nick_Ram said:

This isn't intended to start a rumour, but i always think that if a player really wants to play he'll play through small niggles.

It seems Jack Marriott has more than his fair share of these. Wouldn't be surprised to see him leave in January.

This is a point I have put forward before on the Marriott topic ,, I’m willing to bet if we had drawn Liverpool in the cup he would somehow be fit for that game , think we saw similar pattern last year , up for the big games ,maybe not so much for the run of the mill games?

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

I get the impression that Cocu likes to spend quite a lot of time with any player (youth or otherwise) on the training pitch with the first team before they have chance of playing.

Because Whitaker and Knight have been doing the training and trialist Sibley etc have not then Cocu would first want a few  weeks with them first. (Taking then out of u23/18’s).

It seems that way with whoever he picks, inculcate them into the Cocu Way first.

[goldstar]

7 hours ago, rynny said:

 

Comparing JHI and Dowell is like comparing Martin and Holmes. They do not play the same position. JHI isn't missing out because of Dowell.

I didnt say he is missing out on his place because of Dowell but the principle is the same, why is Dowell getting minutes on the pitch when he is proving time and time again that he isnt cutting it? I think theyre similar ages too. 

[rynny]

1 hour ago, goldstar said:

I didnt say he is missing out on his place because of Dowell but the principle is the same, why is Dowell getting minutes on the pitch when he is proving time and time again that he isnt cutting it? I think theyre similar ages too. 

Because Dowell has proved that he can play at this level and is out of form. Dowell has been taken out of the team for quite a few games to help him to try and find his form away from the moans and groans of our fans.

Whether he is back in the team due to poor performances in midfield by others or lack of other options due to injuries or Cocu is happy with how he has been performing in training, only Cocu knows. 

[jimbo jones]

I don’t like the way people say a youth player isn’t ready, when they’ve not been given a chance. There’s only one way to find out and it’s not always they ones everyone expects it’s going to be either.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Throwing in kids when the team is really struggling has a better chance of ruining them than it has of them being the spark to get the team going again.

There's some pretty senior squad members who need to take some responsibility. I'm all for giving academy players chances, but we've got to be realistic about what they're going to bring to the party.

 

[goldstar]

55 minutes ago, rynny said:

Because Dowell has proved that he can play at this level and is out of form. Dowell has been taken out of the team for quite a few games to help him to try and find his form away from the moans and groans of our fans.

Whether he is back in the team due to poor performances in midfield by others or lack of other options due to injuries or Cocu is happy with how he has been performing in training, only Cocu knows. 

We'll have to disagree there, he may well have proved it once upon a time, but he isn't doing that now and certainly didn't show any improvement yesterday. It must be so frustrating sat watching the inept performances when some of the youth like Sibley and Hector-Ingram would relish the oppprtunity. 

But at the same time I'm conflicted, as putting them in this toxic atmosphere would be a tough task for any newbie.