Yani P Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: If you believe this set of players are good enough to be challenging for the top then I'm afraid you're deluded. Name me 2 of our players who would go straight into the starting eleven for Leeds, WBA or Fulham. Not deluded just because we have different opinions!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 When we played Fulham not a single one of our players would get in their team, maybe Bielik at a push. How many of our players would go in and immediately improve a team in this league that sits above us? This is the first season in a long time I honestly think I would pick more Forest players over ours and they have been crap but got results. I'd even take Ameobi.. We are deluded, maybe blinded by the money paid, if we think this set of players is good enough. Cocu has made some good choices, but he hasn't stuck with them long enough. Injuries, lack of form and his own changes. Be interesting to see what would have happened had Shinnie not got injured, or Bielik pre match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 41 minutes ago, Yani P said: Not deluded just because we have different opinions!!!! Genuine question then, out of our current squad, how many do you think would get into the Leeds/Fulham/WBA starting eleven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 minute ago, lrm14 said: Genuine question then, out of our current squad, how many do you think would get into the Leeds/Fulham/WBA starting eleven? Bristol City/F*rest/Wendies too! But it's about playing as a team. How close to doing that are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, TexasRam said: You know I agree totally (if they were his signings) they have been poor, really poor imo . I just think we need to give him time, mainly because I’m sick of transition periods ? they seem never ending! Oh I know I crave stability and as mad as this sounds but before cocu, before frank I wanted that with rowett Cos at least we had a game plan and an identity in a similar space of time and equally one window rowett got us playing his way and like it or not style wise it was effective it wasn’t my cup of tea football wise but I could see the merits and despite everything there was entertainment along the way never forget that Cardiff game we created chances, we were solid at the back we couldn’t keep the ball for toffee but that was fine Cos the players knew to hit space, or go over the top or even if in doubt launch it with cocu I’m struggling to see any sort of identity ... if there is one it’s try and keep the ball but we can’t pass the ducker 4 yards so that’s plan A out of the equation lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 minute ago, lrm14 said: Genuine question then, out of our current squad, how many do you think would get into the Leeds/Fulham/WBA starting eleven? I doubt whether many ever claimed we were a top 3 side. A more reasonable question would be how many of our players would get in the Wednesday team (6th) or the Preston (7th) or Cardiff teams (8th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeS Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: I’m saying this Cos I’m hacked off and being mischievous I know but If he hasn’t had a transfer window to bring in his own players then by what method did bielik, Dowell and Paterson arrive by ? All his players ... all “technical players” and my god I’m using the words “technical players” loosely after today no matter how badly ur set up to play or how good the opposition are a player of the apparent “technical” standard of Dowell and bielik should still be able to complete more than 1 in 5 passes it was that bad today and don’t start me on the lack of effort once they had gift wrapped possession back to the opposition I’m fuming with today, forget the result I want to know what the actual duck they do on the training ground Cos it ain’t passing to each other. maybe if they spent less time getting smashed and more time practising being well paid athletes we might see a little more endeavour the lack of effort to retain the ball or win it back by our midfield today was shocking on the plus side I thought the back 3 were pretty solid considering they have nothing infront of them my biggest concern though is that we’re seeing players regress bogle and holmes look half the players they we’re opening few games waghorn despite his goals just looks off it Lawrence is even more inconsistent than he ever has been at this club which was already pretty high and don’t get me started on the handling / mishandling of Jack Marriott In one week, out for two lone striker one week, off Martin next, out wide the next, on the bench the next out of the 18 next I’m looking for positives mate I really am but I’m really really struggling to see any sort of progress and I’m talking low level stuff here I came into this season with minimal expectations which was fine but I’m just struggling to take anything atm after today Couldn't agree more. The fact is whether we like it or not, we have to face it. The team is regressing...and fast. There is no sign at present that things will improve. Even worse, that we know what to do to improve matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Bristol City/F*rest/Wendies too! But it's about playing as a team. How close to doing that are we? We're playing very poorly as a team, there's no doubt about it. I'm just disputing the fact that this squad is worthy of challenging at the top, it's genuinely baffling that certain posters are claiming that it can. We're miles off even the squads of teams in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: Oh I know I crave stability and as mad as this sounds but before cocu, before frank I wanted that with rowett Cos at least we had a game plan and an identity in a similar space of time and equally one window rowett got us playing his way and like it or not style wise it was effective it wasn’t my cup of tea football wise but I could see the merits and despite everything there was entertainment along the way never forget that Cardiff game we created chances, we were solid at the back we couldn’t keep the ball for toffee but that was fine Cos the players knew to hit space, or go over the top or even if in doubt launch it with cocu I’m struggling to see any sort of identity ... if there is one it’s try and keep the ball but we can’t pass the ducker 4 yards so that’s plan A out of the equation lol I’d rather have zero identity and lose 5-0 every game than watch the poo Rowett served up. I actually think I can see what Cocu is trying to do, at present we don’t have the players. Come August next year who knows ??? What I do know is if we change again now it’ll be August 2021 before we see what we are capable of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 For what it's worth. I don't want Cocu out. But I do struggle to defend him sometimes. Some decisions are baffling. To me we seem like a team of individuals. But Cocu has overseen our worst away record since that disastrous Premier League season. Every away game is the same. We don't create, we don't shoot. It's absolutely pathetic. We don't seem to go into away games to win. Just trying to stop the opposition. Our team is utterly utterly pathetic. I have no affiliation with any player. Infact it's the most detached I've felt from the club in some time. Looking at our squad. We need a keeper. Hamer is number one now. But he's not ours. Our current centre half pairing isn't what we want. If someone said we would have Davies and Forsyth as our centre halves at the start of the season nobody would have been happy. I love Davies, he seems to be the only one that cares. But he's not really the answer now. Waghorn is a typical Derby signing. Has a good season at Championship level and we spunk stupid amounts on what essentially is a bang average striker. Doesn't hold the ball up. Can't play on his own. Can't play in a two. Not really good on the wing. Misses chances. Lawrence is a disgrace. Has a good game. Then disappears for the next 7/8 games. Absolute luxury who most of the time doesn't look interested. Sooner he's gone the better. Been the same for 3 years. Get rid. Holmes hasn't got an end product. Got everything before that. Doesn't assist doesn't score. Marriott starts last week. Gets no service at all then a week later is dropped. Martin is the only player we have that can bring others into play. We played him and Marriott up top against Boro and it looked promising. But rather than stick with that and give it time to develop. We haven't seen it since. We need so much work it's frightening. Only reason I'll stand by Cocu is this isn't his squad. It's 3 different managers squads. Personally I'd give him January and the summer transfer windows. If we get to October/November and we're still around this mark in the table he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Yani P said: Simple question for me.. What is Cocu actually building? Like I've said already players here are more than good enough to be challenging at the top.. Something is fundamentally wrong when you watch the same disjointed mess week in week out.. Could not of put it better myself,we are nowhere in fact going backwards not forwards and like i have said before on this forum we are putting more and more pressure to win our home games now,last 5 away and not a single goal is pathetic Next two homes games are massive and 4 points is a minimum or come Xmas we could well be in a relegation battle then lets see if we all believe in Cocu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 minute ago, lrm14 said: We're playing very poorly as a team, there's no doubt about it. I'm just disputing the fact that this squad is worthy of challenging at the top, it's genuinely baffling that certain posters are claiming that it can. We're miles off even the squads of teams in the playoffs. The fact that we're not playing as a team is the very point - greater than the sum of our parts! If the players don't know what they should be doing or where they should be is it any surprise we don't play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The fact that we're not playing as a team is the very point - greater than the sum of our parts! If the players don't know what they should be doing or where they should be is it any surprise we don't play well. But the team is never going to play well if it has zero creativity other than a Martin flick, which is what my point is. Look at the Fulham game, we came into it with a lot of momentum after the Preston match and they just stopped the service to Martin, hey presto we're nullified. We don't have any capable wingers, we don't have any capable creative midfielders, a new manager won't change any of that. If we're still struggle to create stuff after January when we hopefully sign a winger and have Rooney playing then maybe I'll see your point, until then you're simply expecting a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, lrm14 said: But the team is never going to play well if it has zero creativity other than a Martin flick, which is what my point is. Look at the Fulham game, we came into it with a lot of momentum after the Preston match and they just stopped the service to Martin, hey presto we're nullified. We don't have any capable wingers, we don't have any capable creative midfielders, a new manager won't change any of that. If we're still struggle to create stuff after January when we hopefully sign a winger and have Rooney playing then maybe I'll see your point, until then you're simply expecting a miracle. Not difficult to stop the Martin threat if he's the only one up there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Yani P said: Not deluded just because we have different opinions!!!! To which of course you are fully entitled but can you name just 2 players - shouldn't be difficult if the squad is as good as you're suggesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Anyone who wants Cocu out now needs their head looking at quite honestly. First, who on earth would we get in to replace him? We're hardly an attractive proposition atm. Second, at what point do we stick with a manager for more than a single season? It's been what 5 years since we've started the next season with the same manager that started the previous one? Chopping and changing has not led to success, it has led to an unbalanced squad which lacks an identity and a lot of money thrown down the drain. Our years of extreme indecision of sticking to a style and an identity has finally caught up with us. Cocu is the best option we have. As I said earlier this season unless we're in danger of relegation we have to stick with him. Yes, this season will be trying and difficult. We will not have a playoff push or a wembley day out at the end of it. However, in the long run he's the best man to lead us to promotion by using a mixture of youth and experience to forge an identity which will hopefully stick with us for a few years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: To which of course you are fully entitled but can you name just 2 players - shouldn't be difficult if the squad is as good as you're suggesting How many Sheffield United players would get into those teams? They are 9th in the Premier League, but man-for-man, they don't have better individuals than a number of Championship clubs. It's not about the individuals. It's about the manager and his ability to create a well-functioning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: All of them? ? Most of 'em Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Players should be able to put in effort and consistently make simple passes. Ours struggle to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, TexasRam said: I’d rather have zero identity and lose 5-0 every game than watch the poo Rowett served up. I actually think I can see what Cocu is trying to do, at present we don’t have the players. Come August next year who knows ??? What I do know is if we change again now it’ll be August 2021 before we see what we are capable of There was entertainment along the way we won a lot more than we lost and let’s not muck about we all got off on the fact that we were going into games knowing that teams had to work bloody hard to score against us and we were capable of causing anyone problems .... in a not so easy on the eye type of way id take that every day of the week than going into games wandering if we might get one shot off on goal in 90 minutes In terms of quality on the ball today was as bad or worse than anything rowett served up mans we never even remotely looked like we were going to win it was a waiting game to see when they would score ... all despite them being pretty dam average themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.