Steve How Hard? Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 If the injuries keep accumulating at the current alarming rate then I think our Phil might have to revise this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 21/11/2019 at 08:31, ramsbottom said: I'm struggling to remember a January signing that actually worked and brought value for money. Maybe Dawkins as he officially signed after his loan spell? Wish we had Dawkins now - can still remember how the ball used to look like it was tied to his feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 21/11/2019 at 10:04, DcfcJB said: In contrast spending big one very good player like Villa did on wages and loan fee for Mings last year and Mitrovic the year before with Fulham can be the difference. Last two seasons I think we have missed out based on our decision not to make a key signing in January to freshen things up. Very much agree though we don’t need quantity. Spend big on quality is the key to a successful second half of the season. If we could just get a couple, perhaps a CB and a ambidextrous winger, with Bielik's obvious class/potential - that'd do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 22/11/2019 at 20:07, G STAR RAM said: George Thorne - if not for injuries, we would probably be playing in the Premier League and he would be playing for England Raul Albentosa - signed for £540k, sold for £700k Cyrus Christe - signed for £100k, sold for £2.5m Tom Ince - (top scorer) signed for £6m, sold for £8m Matej Vydra - (top scorer) signed for £8m sold for £11m David Nugent, Curtis Davies, Tom Huddlestone, Jack Marriott, Duane Holmes, all under £3m and have played roles in us reaching successive play off campaigns. Now I'm not saying we have the best scouting department in the world but it's all a bit Football Manager to suggest that they are really awful and is probably based on the fact that we are not out signing players with exotic names, coupled with the signings of Johnson, Butterfield and Blackman, which it appears had nothing to do with the scouting department anyway. The only players in that list that I'd say were scouted are Christie,Holmes and Albentosa....are you saying Curtis Davies,David Nugent,Tom Ince and Tom Huddlestone were scouted lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 hours ago, S8TY said: The only players in that list that I'd say were scouted are Christie,Holmes and Albentosa....are you saying Curtis Davies,David Nugent,Tom Ince and Tom Huddlestone were scouted lol I have no idea. I assume that I have the same knowledge of how our scouting department as you and all other posters...very little and hence why I dont understand the constant criticism of the scouting department when none of us know what they do or what they are tasked with. I would imagine that all players are watched in some capacity prior to being signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I have no idea. I assume that I have the same knowledge of how our scouting department as you and all other posters...very little and hence why I dont understand the constant criticism of the scouting department when none of us know what they do or what they are tasked with. I would imagine that all players are watched in some capacity prior to being signed. But who needs to scout the players I mentioned ? no one, anyone can see and know about such players...good scouting is un-earthing talent before every tom dig and harry know about them so most of the players on that list are not what I would call scouted....would you need to scout Messi or Ronaldo ? They've been scouted at an early stage...Marriott was found by Peterborough who signed him from Ipswich i think it was whereas someone like Bobby Davison was signed from Halifax Town and Alan Biley from Cambridge United so therfore come into the "scouted" bracket.....our set up seems poor looking at it purely from evidence of who actually has signed for us that no bugger knew who they were...I hope Cocu himself has some influence from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, S8TY said: But who needs to scout the players I mentioned ? no one, anyone can see and know about such players...good scouting is un-earthing talent before every tom dig and harry know about them so most of the players on that list are not what I would call scouted....would you need to scout Messi or Ronaldo ? They've been scouted at an early stage...Marriott was found by Peterborough who signed him from Ipswich i think it was whereas someone like Bobby Davison was signed from Halifax Town and Alan Biley from Cambridge United so therfore come into the "scouted" bracket.....our set up seems poor looking at it purely from evidence of who actually has signed for us that no bugger knew who they were...I hope Cocu himself has some influence from now on I have no idea. If a manager said 'get me someone who can sit in midfield and ping me 50 yard passed around the pitch' I would imagine players such as Huddlestone would come to mind but I would imagine they would want to check if he still up to it and has the legs to play at this level, rather than just thinking he used to be able to do it last time we saw him play so just sign him. On your second point, I understand where you are coming from. Who are you comparing us too though? Any examples of the sort of players you mention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 10 hours ago, DesertRam said: If we could just get a couple, perhaps a CB and a ambidextrous winger, with Bielik's obvious class/potential - that'd do ? The ambidextrous winger would still have to to take the throw ins with two hands ! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 The days of unearthing gems from lower leagues that no-one has ever heard of are gone, imo. Twitter and other social media makes everyone equally accessible. Even foreign markets are much more open these days. I think scouting is a bit of a "luck" game and people who quote successful players at other clubs forget that those clubs will have an equal number of players they brought in that didn't make the grade, just like we do. If you look at Marriott 's background for example, he was a player that a then decent club let go because they didn't think he'd make it. He's worked hard and climbed back up the leagues. Time will tell if he's reached his ceiling, either skill or fitness wise. So these days Derby are either signing potential (Bielik) or giving those second chances (Evans). The best clubs sign players for fit to the system. This is where Derby have faltered in recent seasons because they've changed manager so often (not all their own fault) that the system isn't a given. Hopefully we are now remedying that but I still think we'll sign some players that do well for us and some that don't. It's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: I have no idea. If a manager said 'get me someone who can sit in midfield and ping me 50 yard passed around the pitch' I would imagine players such as Huddlestone would come to mind but I would imagine they would want to check if he still up to it and has the legs to play at this level, rather than just thinking he used to be able to do it last time we saw him play so just sign him. On your second point, I understand where you are coming from. Who are you comparing us too though? Any examples of the sort of players you mention? Yes G STAR some good points but i really don't get that players like Huddlestone etc need scouting ...you know what you're getting and I knew and you probably did without having to go to games and sit and watch or analyse data on a player with Huddlestone or most of the players on that list( I personally like to judge players on what you can see with your own eyes ) Of course Brentford,Bournemouth and Wolves spring to mind as to seemingly having good scouts/recruitment department in place...foreign based players don't even appear to be on our radar and yet Brentford sign Jota and Canos for example and also signed John Egan from Gillingham who was then sold on and is a good CB especially at championship level...what I'm really saying is our scouting in general appears poor and although we have no insight into how it is run etc we don't with the Brentford model either and yet they constantly appear to find players for small fees who are not household names...I watched Sheff United yesterday with lots of players like Fleck for example who are quality players , Im not talking about players like Mcburnie or Robinson because they were bought for big money I'm talking about seeing players before they become big money players...so Curtis Davies for example didn't need much observation as he's played for several teams and cost them a few bob so although free signing was great he wasn't exactly scouted. Also if we are relying on our scouting system to find players that fit the criteria for what Cocu requires i would not trust them as there is very little evidence to suggest they actually know what they are doing and a loan or two from abroad might be an idea!!!...i beleive Albentosa was signed on video evidence....and we know how that turned out..... I go to games all the time because of my son and talk to scouts from Wolves,Millwall,Norwich,Palace,Brighton,Charlton and Villa for example a lot...standing out in all weathers watching games and this is in south london/ kent...this is what i call proper scouting I'm sure we have these sort of staff out there but in a nutshell doesn't seem to produce much for the first team...I am not talking about academy and under18s players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Wolves? I'm not so sure hiring a super-agent, creating a closed market to sign players far and above the quality of those accessible by other Championship clubs (even if they could afford them) for a fraction of their real value counts as scouting, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Surely with Paterson allegedly back off to Bristol in January, and Dowell probably going back to Everton, we'll need a few more in to cover the players outgoing? We could do with some defenders but also wing and midfield cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Andicis said: Surely with Paterson allegedly back off to Bristol in January, and Dowell probably going back to Everton, we'll need a few more in to cover the players outgoing? We could do with some defenders but also wing and midfield cover. Van Ginkel and Ibe on loan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Coconut said: Wolves? I'm not so sure hiring a super-agent, creating a closed market to sign players far and above the quality of those accessible by other Championship clubs (even if they could afford them) for a fraction of their real value counts as scouting, but whatever. yeah because the super agent signed all of there cheaper finds didn't he lol.....Conor Coady from Liverpool and Leon Dendoncker from Anderlecht...initially on loan i think ...but yeah.....whatever!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Andicis said: Surely with Paterson allegedly back off to Bristol in January, and Dowell probably going back to Everton, we'll need a few more in to cover the players outgoing? We could do with some defenders but also wing and midfield cover. I think that Rooney bloke could cover Dowell's position and any number of academy players can sit just as nicely on the bench as Paterson is doing. I agree about defence, though - has to be a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Ibe on loan ? https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1204199/jordan-ide-arrest-premier-league-football-liverpool-london-bournemouth He'd fit right in! No thanks, one good run of form 5 years ago and no clear progression since despite being at a club where you'd think a player of his sort should have thrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Just now, Coconut said: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1204199/jordan-ide-arrest-premier-league-football-liverpool-london-bournemouth He'd fit right in! No thanks, one good run of form 5 years ago and no clear progression since despite being at a club where you'd think a player of his sort should have thrived. I was just using an old recognisable name. I don't know any good ideas for signing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, Andicis said: Surely with Paterson allegedly back off to Bristol in January, and Dowell probably going back to Everton, we'll need a few more in to cover the players outgoing? We could do with some defenders but also wing and midfield cover. Where has the Paterson bit come from? I've not seen this anywhere before now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Bristol live (I. E. The Bristol version of the DET website) are posting on twitter he's being sent back. Not fussed. Not bad, just not particularly good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 39 minutes ago, S8TY said: yeah because the super agent signed all of there cheaper finds didn't he lol.....Conor Coady from Liverpool and Leon Dendoncker from Anderlecht...initially on loan i think ...but yeah.....whatever!!! Why aren't you oh so very full of yourself. Take Nevez & Jota out the team that season and where do they finish? Take Nuno Gomez out of the equation and...? I wasn't saying they haven't done some good deals, but they can't be used as a prime or particularly notable example of how good scouting brings success when in their promotion season they recorded losses of £57m having posted a profit 2 seasons earlier. ...especially when you consider the sort of player they wee looking to sign in the season before promotion, Andreas Weimann! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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