Sith Happens Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 This is a strange thread to me. I know it wasn't presented as such but i cant help but feel its a glass houses thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadFly Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 27 minutes ago, jono said: Well aren’t you person perfect sorry mate, don’t believe you. Done a bomb in swimming pool, Chuck something across a room, gone a bit quick in a car at the wrong moment , run an amber light .. you have Definitely the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Not read it all, like I’ve not read all the other threads on this. Who’s got the time for that!? i know who, people with absolutely no lives. People who have clearly never done any tv img stupid in their lives. im happy to say I’ve done bloody loads of stupid things in my life. I like to think it’s what makes me so smart. I’ve got no problem with people making mistakes as long as they learn from them. If they keep making the same mistake over and over again, then I’ve got no patience for them. But everyone’s allowed a gimme. Otherwise how does anyone learn anything? i got caught drink driving once. Finished off a mates pint before I left a pub. Got away with a driving ban because of it. Got pulled over speeding on 9 points. But tested as over the limit. Back to the police station, under the limit, and they hadn’t written me up for the speeding. If I hadn’t have been over the limit in the first place, they would have got me for speeding and I would have accumulated 12 points. kind of irrelevant, but any excuse to tell that story. Keogh in particular is a legend. He’s a legend for his 7 years here. And he’s just solidified his legend. This is how legends go out. He was going to dwindle into obscurity like Martin without the comeback. We’re going to finish mid table this season, and by next season Cocu will have restructured the whole team. As much as I would have lived Keith’s story to end with lifting the play off final cup, and warming the bench in the premier league, that ship has sailed. It’s better to burn out than fade away. Right now everyone is feeling very sorry for themselves. But in 10 years they’ll all remember that mental night out where Keezy went out with a bang. People do stupid things. 99% of the time no one gets hurt. That 1% of the time, it’s bad times for everybody. Ive got a mate who did a 2 year stretch for doing 36 in a 30 and running someone over. Who hasn’t done that? And on that articular occasion someone was crossing the road at just the wrong time. All acts of stupidity come with an element of risk that it could all go wrong. If you’re lucky it’ll only effect you, if you’re not it’ll effect others. Prisons are full of people who took that risk and just happened to not get lucky on that occasion. But you face the consequences, whatever they may be. Thankfully, on this occasion, no one was hurt. There’ll be consequences, but they could have been worse. Or there’s an alternate universe somewhere where they all got home without incident. this is life. And a life well lived, full of stories, is full of these knife edge moments. I love a good story. A life is a story at the end of the day. Is yours worth reading? I’m confident mine is, and mostly because of the stupid poo I’ve done. i hasten to add that I’m a bit older and wiser now and stupid poo happens less often than it used to. Keogh and Lawrence and Bennett are entitled to a life. Stupid mistakes and all. As long as they pay for them appropriately, live with them, and learn from them, then I’ve got no beef with them. (That was a bit of a brain dump, but like I said, I’ve read lots of bits of threads and had many thoughts which I’ve dumped into an unstructured mess here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Still can't understand that. Is there no mistake so terrible you can't accept a simple apology and a promise to change? I think there are some choices people make that you can't just accept were a mistake. Drinking and driving is one of those mistakes so hated, so reviled in society, you can't do it. There's few mistakes viewed so seriously. Murder, sexual abuse, violence - commit that level of atrocity and you can't expect to be welcomed back. It will take time and effort to be brought back into the fold. Drink Driving is in the same level for me. Do you think all bad choices should be forgiven? If murder was unforgivable then I wouldn't have a very good friend. The person that did the crime isn't the person I know now. And thankfully I didn't get the chance to know what he did before I made friends with him. So somebody, somewhere has to believe in rehabilitation and I've seen with my own sceptical eyes that it works. I see tailgating and other reckless aggressive driving as a bigger problem than drink driving. Drink driving is also so vague. There's slightly over the limit and then there's wrecked. Both are rightly punished and both are utterly stupid. But one is far more dangerous than the other. Let's not forget we have signed Rooney. And Chris Martin had some pub ban in Norwich? I wouldn't say forgive them though. Well, actually what has Keogh done that bad? We are supposed to believe women are vulnerable when drunk but we assume Keogh shouldn't get drunk or should think rationally when he does? But anyway, he's an idiot too. I just think there's a more to consider when punishing someone than just letting loose your rage. I think sexual abuse shows a whole different level of a twisted and broken morality. That might be me being a hypocrite there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Humans have an extraordinary ability to judge and think their poo doesn't smell. People love vitriol, it's a joy to be outraged. It makes us feel better about ourselves. We also have a criminal justice system and club disciplinary policy designed to punish proportionately and rehabilitate. I've done stupid things in my time. Sometimes I've been caught others I've got away with it. I'm now 34 and have a kid, it changes your perspective and you look back and feel horribly embarrassed. As will all involved in this sorry affair. If Lawrence scores the winner in the play off final next year a lot of people will conveniently forget how outraged they were. I'm well aware this is highly unlikely to happen but remember how much vitriol there was against Beckham after the Argentina game years ago and when he scored the winner against Greece for qualification a few years later, he was a hero. People have selective memories. Doesn't diminish their bad behaviour at all. They deserve whatever punishment the law and club policy dictates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_The_Waff Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 minute ago, RodleyRam said: Humans have an extraordinary ability to judge and think their poo doesn't smell. People love vitriol, it's a joy to be outraged. It makes us feel better about ourselves. We also have a criminal justice system and club disciplinary policy designed to punish proportionately and rehabilitate. I've done stupid things in my time. Sometimes I've been caught others I've got away with it. I'm now 34 and have a kid, it changes your perspective and you look back and feel horribly embarrassed. As will all involved in this sorry affair. If Lawrence scores the winner in the play off final next year a lot of people will conveniently forget how outraged they were. I'm well aware this is highly unlikely to happen but remember how much vitriol there was against Beckham after the Argentina game years ago and when he scored the winner against Greece for qualification a few years later, he was a hero. People have selective memories. Doesn't diminish their bad behaviour at all. They deserve whatever punishment the law and club policy dictates. There are subtle differences between both of those scenarios: We aren't talking about any old Mr Smith and Mr Jones. We are talking about professional athletes who are paid huge salaries to represent a football club. Those individuals are also role models to thousands of young children. They are paid huge salaries to compensate for the sacrifices that they should make, such as not getting steaming drunk, not taking drugs and not living off of junk food. Secondly, Beckham kicked out at a fellow player on the pitch. Our own morons got into two powerful cars whilst intoxicated, putting others at risk of serious injury or death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaw Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 10 hours ago, AdamRam said: I get where you are coming from, and personally prefer this angle to the siege mentality. We are not Leeds, we shouldn’t be seen to endorse the actions of anyone at the club for this incident, we all make mistakes and quite rightly these should be condemned, however it’s how we deal and learn from them that should be the way forward now. Some of the replies in this thread actually beggar belief. Are some of you really trying to justify and excuse what's happened to your club here??? No, quite right you are certainly not Leeds. Leeds' name was splashed over the front pages of every football page and website for days following "Spygate". Skysports had a field day with it for nearly two weeks and still refer to it now . This is, of course, bearing in mind that nobody broke any laws, nobody damaged any property and nobody caused or sustained any injuries and certainly no potentially career-ending injuries. Sky has barely mentioned this incident, nor has the BBC and some of you are frothing at the mouth because the Mirror has dared to go into detail. Don't trivialise this - the irresponsible and reprehensible behaviour of at least two, possibly more of your first team could have lead to people dying and you (and they - your players and club) are incredibly lucky that didn't happen. Instead your captain has lost at least one year of what's left of his career. Horrible as he is he didn't deserve that, stupid as he was to get into that car. There is no way "Mel" will sack your two lead protagonists in all this because let's face it, he doesn't have any stadiums left to sell, so you're relatively safe there. But it's ok, people make mistakes though, don't they? Applause to those of you who get that there is no excusing what's happened here. If it was Leeds I would be similarly ashamed and thoroughly mortified, believe that or not, I don't really care. Be thankful you're not a big club or you'd never, ever hear the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alaw said: Some of the replies in this thread actually beggar belief. Are some of you really trying to justify and excuse what's happened to your club here??? No, quite right you are certainly not Leeds. Leeds' name was splashed over the front pages of every football page and website for days following "Spygate". Skysports had a field day with it for nearly two weeks and still refer to it now . This is, of course, bearing in mind that nobody broke any laws, nobody damaged any property and nobody caused or sustained any injuries and certainly no potentially career-ending injuries. Sky has barely mentioned this incident, nor has the BBC and some of you are frothing at the mouth because the Mirror has dared to go into detail. Don't trivialise this - the irresponsible and reprehensible behaviour of at least two, possibly more of your first team could have lead to people dying and you (and they - your players and club) are incredibly lucky that didn't happen. Instead your captain has lost at least one year of what's left of his career. Horrible as he is he didn't deserve that, stupid as he was to get into that car. There is no way "Mel" will sack your two lead protagonists in all this because let's face it, he doesn't have any stadiums left to sell, so you're relatively safe there. But it's ok, people make mistakes though, don't they? Applause to those of you who get that there is no excusing what's happened here. If it was Leeds I would be similarly ashamed and thoroughly mortified, believe that or not, I don't really care. Be thankful you're not a big club or you'd never, ever hear the end of it. I’ve think I’ve seen one tweet on social media whose excusing what’s happened. I also think you’re looking for things in replies that are not there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, TigerTedd said: Not read it all.... Who’s got the time for that!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, GadFly said: Definitely the same thing. Not quite sure of your point. Are you being ironic ? Stating the obvious that drink driving is stupid and dangerous ? i was merely pointing out that putting yourself on some self made high ground isn’t wise. What seemed a reasonable risk to you might not be the same to others and the amber light or whatever lesser foolhardiness could quite easily have resulted in serious injury or death, Oh yes the odds aren’t quite the same, but casting the first stone invites some external observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Alpha said: So, it's not a thread to defend the 2 drunk drivers. With all the abuse and condemning though I just thought how our own mistakes would be judged. How our near misses in life got past the media spotlight. How we maybe didn't get away with being stupid but took away a life lesson? I mean whatever happens to our players then so be it. I don't really care. Like most people I'm imagining someone I love being hurt or worse by them. I'm thinking about all the stupid things I have done. All this stretching of laws and rules I do. I've been caught speeding. 37 in a 30. I'm ashamed to say I've been in a car with someone over the limit when I was young. Not steaming drunk but still... How many of you speed? "Well it should be at least a 40". How many of you drove before the drink drive limit laws? How many of you leave the correct distance between you and the next vehicle? How many of you give the cyclist the correct amount of room? How many of you would fail a driving test now? Who's been on a crazy night out where Dave has got in a fight over a spilled pint or Steve has danced on car while Karen staggers across a road unaware of that taxi? Who as a kid walked on railway lines, ran across busy roads, climbed fences, vandalised, stole, threw stones at windows etc etc. We all do stupid stuff. We make small insignificant (to us) decisions that you reflect on and think "what a fecking idiot" Stupid things where at the time you thought you were in control of the situation or you were doing something a bit dodgy but you'll be alright. Am I the only one that sees another person make a mistake and it makes me reflect on what I would/could/should have done. I look at the aggression aimed at Keogh and Huddlestone and while I'm no way saying Huddz for captain and save a place for Keogh in our defence, I'm also not calling for a public execution. Why? Because I have done stupid poo and I should/do know better. But like so many other people I try to cut corners in life. When our players stayed for another drink I'm sure at the time it seemed insignificant. Who has never had "one more". Who has never stayed in bed for that extra 10 minutes or popped in for that cuppa you've not got time for.? Who's never flirted with that girl you shouldn't be flirting with? When Mason started being sick was it really that bad if Huddlestone films it. Banter. Harmless micky taking. He puts it on social media. It's going to get Mason embarrassed, a few might moan and a few might love it that the lads are bonding. They loved Bryson having a beer and Waghorn in the away end. They loved Nuge hanging out at Wembley. Nothing to it. When a bunch of drunken lads talk about going home and now drunken idiot A says to that drunken idiot B that he's ok to drive do you expect drunken idiot B to have a rational argument. Nah, we'll be alright. Look! We are barely drunnnkkzzz attt alllllgh. Small stupid decisions. Big repercussions. And now they will rightly pay for it. I'll have no sympathy but I can't look past my own stupidity to lay into them like some are. Don't take this post as a defence of them. It's not. I'm just looking at all the judgement passed on them and wondering who it's coming from because I expect some of it to be coming from real perfect people. You might say "you wouldn't be saying this if they had killed your kids". Correct. But somebody would have to think it otherwise every crime would be punishable by death!! I'm going to get grief now for defending idiots. I'm honestly not. I've just been an idiot too and so have most people playing judge jury and executioner. I don't think every crime gets the punishment it deserves. But at the same time I don't feel I'm qualified to decide on the punishments Blimey. I pretty much said similar to this and my post was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, GadFly said: TLDR. Title tells you all you need to know. Utter ********. Yes I have made a mistake, many mistakes... a mistake that could easily, very easily, result in an innocent person's death though? Nah. What is TLDR ? (Sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said: What is TLDR ? (Sorry) Too long didn’t read..... BRB L8R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said: What is TLDR ? (Sorry) 5 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Too long didn’t read..... BRB L8R, I didn't know either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Not sure why there is a need to deflect away from the simple facts of what has been done.. What gets me the most is looking at it from a footballing perspective do any of these players who stayed late getting pi**ed give a toss about our club?? We have had a shocking start just above the relegation zone.. These so called professionals think the best way to deal with that is to break every club protocol in existence.. Just beggars belief to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: A couple of weeks ago i drank half a bottle of whiskey on a Sunday and didn't feel capable of putting my son to bed. I was panicking about not being fit for work the next day (I was fine) and was angry with myself for a few days. No laws broken. I work on highway maintenance and get drug and alcohol tested at random. Our policy on alcohol is that we are not allowed about HALF the amount in our system than the legal limit. We have to be on call for a week, ironically to clear up the mess left by drunk, reckless drivers. Attending fatalities is part of our job and it is just horrific. We had recently, had an expert to talk about this to us. He stated that the average man, if drank 6 pints of pub standard beer/larger % about 3-4% and last drink was about 23.00 ( last orders) that you shouldn’t be in a car till about midday. This seemed to me a bit overkill, as 6 beers didn’t seem excessive on a Saturday or maybe Sunday night. So driving to work at 6-7 ish I think puts a lot of people at risk of being over. Half a bottle of whiskey is quite a lot. I’m not suggesting you were over the next time you drove , at all! just that if we drink excessively ( and I do sometimes) we really don’t know how long it is before we’re Ok. We might feel fine but test over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Alpha said: I agree. I'd feel the same. The topic I'm getting at though is those that are kind of summing a person up by their mistakes. Or those that are calling for specific punishments. I completely agree I'd take punishments on the chin. But put yourself in the position of the punisher. Do you feel fit to pass judgement? (Hopefully this post doesn't come across aggressive. I'm not having a go! ?) Put your hand up if you’ve been punished for a mistake ,,, that’s how it works ,as the story unfolds it’s very borderline whether these two deserve a custodial sentence ,it’s looking very much like two drunks have got in cars and not only drove home but likely playing silly buggers too , someone is badly injured and it’s lucky as I could have far far worse , right now that is what defines them ,further down the road they will be defined by how they respond to and Learn from this mistake but now is the time they will be rightly judged and punished for the mistake ,,, some people learn from mistakes ,some just keep behaving like knobs ,only time will tell but now is not the time to say hang on we all make mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: I think it’s a valid thread and a valid question. I made a similar point in the main thread about the incident. Nobody makes 100% correct decisions. Sometimes people make appalling decisions. Being massively drunk is a direct enabler of making the worst decisions. The bad decision was simply to get that drunk. But then how many of us have ended up that drunk unintentionally because we’ve been having a good time? Self-restraint is always easier said than done. The decisions to drive and the decision to get in that car as a passenger are the unfathomable decisions of someone off their head. Anyone saying that they should have known better has clearly never been that drunk. So to answer the exam question: I once got so drunk that I walked along the hand rail of the bridge over the ring road between the Bless and the Seven Stars. I could easily have died, and I consider myself very lucky that I didn’t. Interesting that you state you could easily have died , I think you have without realising it shown the major flaw / driver in these situations,,,, never mind you could have died , you were being stupid ,,,, the more pressing concern is poor buggers minding there own business happily driving below could have been killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Too long didn’t read..... BRB L8R, Been read before later? need a lie down now (NALDN) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.