Bubbles Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I'm personally disappointed, we needed to strengthen, we have a very poor squad and have let go of 4 players and no replacements. However I'm also relieved that we didn't overspend on poor players like we've done various times. Oh well. Time for Trialist, J Brown, Archie Brown, Liam Thompson, and more to break through. COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, David said: How is our legal battle with Keogh a shambles of the clubs doing? That one is on himself, the club laid on transport but no, he thought as captain it would be clever to continue drinking with his team mates, climb into the back of the car with them without putting on a seatbelt. Stadium deal, the same one which the EFL approved and signed off before we went ahead? How our accounts are filed, the same accounts which again the EFL have signed off for a number of seasons now without issue? Away form is terrible, no hiding from that. It has to improve. Worst squad for 7 or 8 years? We’ve had a real push for promotion for the last 5, it’s not sustainable, no club sustains that number of challenging finishes. Go look, yes we’re having to take a step back but the first season we do, the toys are out the pram. Theres actually quite a few positives to come from this step back with a number of academy players coming through but we’ll ignore that one shall we? Because they chose to sack the player who wasn't driving whilst continuing to employ and support the 2 who were. I understand the whole, 'but he can't fulfil his job and the others can,' but I'm sure like me, many of Keogh's team mates would agree it wasn't exactly fair. It's just speculation from me, but I don't imagine that was exactly great for the team morale when their captain and friend who has just suffered a very serious injury is the only 1 to lose his job from the incident. Mel had to sell the stadium as it was a last resort because he's helped get us in this mess. The EFL originally signing off on it doesn't make the situation acceptable. It should have never got to that stage, especially when they regularly fed us the line, "we'll continue to abide by FFP," whenever the issue was raised. I doubt us fans would have been as supportive as we were at the time if they told the full story during those Q and As that, "we'll continue to abide by FFP but will have to sell the stadium to do so." And what's with this 'toys out the pram' poo? I'm concerned for the future of the club I've grown up supporting and it immediately means I'm a spoilt child who's throwing his toys out the pram? I'm not here demanding we challenge for promotion ... I'm voicing my concerns over how Mel Morris is running the club. And who said anything about ignoring the academy players? That's a big positive for sure, but a few academy players getting their chance doesn't suddenly make the whole situation OK. Maybe our idea of a club in shambles is different, but for me there's just so much going wrong with the club at the minute and there aren't many signs it's going to improve any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: Because they chose to sack the player who wasn't driving whilst continuing to employ and support the 2 who were. I understand the whole, 'but he can't fulfil his job and the others can,' but I'm sure like me, many of Keogh's team mates would agree it wasn't exactly fair. It's just speculation from me, but I don't imagine that was exactly great for the team morale when their captain and friend who has just suffered a very serious injury is the only 1 from to lose his job from the incident. Mel had to sell the stadium as it was a last resort because he's helped get us in this mess. The EFL originally signing off on it doesn't make the situation acceptable. It should have never got to that stage, especially when they regularly fed us the line, "we'll continue to abide by FFP," whenever the issue was raised. I doubt us fans would have been as supportive as we were at the time if they told the full story during those Q and As that, "we'll continue to abide by FFP but will have to sell the stadium to do so." And what's with this 'toys out the pram' poo? I'm concerned for the future of the club I've grown up supporting and it immediately means I'm a spoilt child who's throwing his toys out the pram? I'm not here demanding we challenge for promotion ... I'm voicing my concerns over how Mel Morris is running the club. And who said anything about ignoring the academy players? That's a big positive for sure, but a few academy players getting their chance doesn't suddenly make the whole situation OK. Maybe our idea of a club in shambles is different, but for me there's just so much going wrong with the club at the minute and there aren't many signs it's going to improve any time soon. Keogh was club captain, you hold a level of responsibility both on and off the pitch. He failed in his role and was punished for it, fairly, in my view. I’m disappointed his time come to and end like this and we desperately need a player of his quality now, but he would be unable to play because of his irresponsible actions. Stadium sale, do you know how many clubs actually own their own stadiums? Whilst you might not like it, it’s fairly common for clubs stadiums to be under other ownership. As for toys out of pram that wasn’t specifically aimed at you but the general mood in this thread. On one hand the club are being blasted for not abiding by FFP, whilst crying where are the signings. Do we get the finances under control and not be held to ransom in January, or do we stick 2 fingers up to the EFL and go for it? Can’t have it both ways. Thankfully down to the academy investment, we have players such as Knight and Sibley breaking through so it’s not a shambles, we’re not days from being out of business like Bolton were, nor are we a Man Utd seeing what is it a billion go missing out the club? Everything is overdramatised and it just gets a bit too much. Think this is the most I’ve posted recently as it’s just tedious now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, David said: Keogh was club captain, you hold a level of responsibility both on and off the pitch. He failed in his role and was punished for it, fairly, in my view. I’m disappointed his time come to and end like this and we desperately need a player of his quality now, but he would be unable to play because of his irresponsible actions. Stadium sale, do you know how many clubs actually own their own stadiums? Whilst you might not like it, it’s fairly common for clubs stadiums to be under other ownership. As for toys out of pram that wasn’t specifically aimed at you the the general mood in this thread. On one hand the club are being blasted for not abiding by FFP, whilst crying where are the signings. Do we get the finances under control and not be held to ransom in January, or do we stick 2 fingers up to the EFL and go for it? Can’t have it both ways. Thankfully down to the academy investment, we have players such as Knight and Sibley breaking through so it’s not a shambles, we’re not days from being out of business like Bolton were, nor are we a Man Utd seeing what is it a billion go missing out the club? Everything is overdramatised at times and it just gets a bit too much. Think this is the most I’ve posted recently as it’s just tedious now. I seem to remember reading that around a 3rd of Championship teams don't own their stadium. 5 or 6 of those stadiums are owned by the local council and 3 are owned by individuals who sold it to themselves to avoid FFP punishment. I don't think any (at least I hope not) fans are demanding big money signings, but when we've spent half the season playing a left back or right back at centre back and a centre mid on the wing, I'd hoped we'd bring in at least 2 players to facilitate those areas. As I've mentioned before, my main concern is that if the EFL decide we have broke the rules and gone over the FFP limit, not only is a points deduction possible, but with that almost certainly comes an embargo. If we sign no one and don't agree any pre-contracts before any embargo is placed, we head into next season with 1 centre back at the club, practically no wingers and would likely have to sell a player(s) like Bogle, Lowe, Knight etc. to get back the right side of FFP, which would obviously leave us lacking in other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 With regards to Keogh, I'm sure that the club would have taken a different line, if it wasn't for ffp. Let's look at the situation from a practical point of view. Keogh put the club, whose ffp position is precarious, in a much worse position. To replace him for the next 2 years we have got to buy or loan a similar quality player and also pay his £2m pay per year wages. The only way the club can pay for a replacement, is to sack Keogh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Cam the Ram said: I seem to remember reading that around a 3rd of Championship teams don't own their stadium. 5 or 6 of those stadiums are owned by the local council and 3 are owned by individuals who sold it to themselves to avoid FFP punishment. I don't think any (at least I hope not) fans are demanding big money signings, but when we've spent half the season playing a left back or right back at centre back and a centre mid on the wing, I'd hoped we'd bring in at least 2 players to facilitate those areas. As I've mentioned before, my main concern is that if the EFL decide we have broke the rules and gone over the FFP limit, not only is a points deduction possible, but with that almost certainly comes an embargo. If we sign no one and don't agree any pre-contracts before any embargo is placed, we head into next season with 1 centre back at the club, practically no wingers and would likely have to sell a player(s) like Bogle, Lowe, Knight etc. to get back the right side of FFP, which would obviously leave us lacking in other areas. Cam, I don’t think there is a single fan or a single person at the club that doesn’t think we need a couple of signings, to not get any is disappointing, it really is. I see no reason to turn disappointment into the “clubs a shambles” though. For all we know we could have tried hard within our means for several players which haven’t come off for reasons no fault of our own. Players which would have gone down well with us all, maybe we were on a promise hence the comments before the window then injuries, outgoings collapsed those deals. As for the EFL mess they have decided, it’s now off to an independent tribunal to decide, which I’m sure if found guilty and issued any kind of embargo or points deduction will be strongly fought in the courts which could potentially take months. I’m not saying we should have no concerns, of course it’s a worry, but let’s not forget the EFL have signed off on these deals/accounts to backtrack, which doesn’t look great at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, JayRam1 said: This is where our recruitment and negotiators earn there money. They should be Identifying realistic targets that we should be able to get. Not bloody players we are never going to be able to afford, so you could say the book lies with Morris for keeping these incompetent clueless idiots in a job. I take your point but I suppose some people will spin it any way they want to make sure the blame always lies with Mel. I wonder if the same people gave him any credit for the successes we have had since he took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, ram59 said: With regards to Keogh, I'm sure that the club would have taken a different line, if it wasn't for ffp. Let's look at the situation from a practical point of view. Keogh put the club, whose ffp position is precarious, in a much worse position. To replace him for the next 2 years we have got to buy or loan a similar quality player and also pay his £2m pay per year wages. The only way the club can pay for a replacement, is to sack Keogh. Club captain as well, the player that is supposed to set an example, lead the team, first out and last away for training. Behind the wheel or not, he had to know what his team mates were doing was wrong, should have put a stop to the night or even insisted on taxi’s. That’s the frustrating thing in all of this, length of time at the club, his experience, to go out like this? It’s embarrassing it really is when he could have left but remained at the club in some kind of ambassador role. Cocu has been shafted big time by his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erathirea Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Eurgh. To those complaining "on the basis that we've let "X" number of players go. Let's take a look at those who have left the club this window. Paterson - Last appearance was as a sub on November 9th. Pretty safe to say he wasn't going to be in the plans for the second half of the season. Won't be missed. "replaced" as it were (if that's how you want to look at it) by Whittaker (developing our youth instead of someone else's player, fine by me) Dowell - Started 10 games for us, achieved 1 assist, was *not* what we expected/hoped for. Won't be missed. Replaced by Knight Thorne - Won't go into detail here. We replaced him over the last few windows with Bielik, Evans, Shinnie and the emergence of Bird. And Rooney, if you want to count him. Bennett - Started 2 games this season. Sub in another 5. Not made matchday squad since November. No direct replacement, unless you want to count the emergence of Sibley. Hunt - Clearly not rated. Wasn't anywhere near first team squad despite lack of depth in that position. Mitchell - No comment required. So yes, we've let 6 players go who've made a combined 30 appearances so far this season. Have we replaced them externally? No Have we promoted youth *successfully*? Yes. The emergence of Bird, Sibley, Knight, and to a lesser extent Whittaker (still unproven), more than makes up the quality. So why waste money if we've decided to go into a holding pattern until the end of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Shocking window, I feel for Cocu because he’s the one who’ll get the flack and not the ones behind the scenes. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Billy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 36 minutes ago, erathirea said: Eurgh. To those complaining "on the basis that we've let "X" number of players go. Let's take a look at those who have left the club this window. Paterson - Last appearance was as a sub on November 9th. Pretty safe to say he wasn't going to be in the plans for the second half of the season. Won't be missed. "replaced" as it were (if that's how you want to look at it) by Whittaker (developing our youth instead of someone else's player, fine by me) Dowell - Started 10 games for us, achieved 1 assist, was *not* what we expected/hoped for. Won't be missed. Replaced by Knight Thorne - Won't go into detail here. We replaced him over the last few windows with Bielik, Evans, Shinnie and the emergence of Bird. And Rooney, if you want to count him. Bennett - Started 2 games this season. Sub in another 5. Not made matchday squad since November. No direct replacement, unless you want to count the emergence of Sibley. Hunt - Clearly not rated. Wasn't anywhere near first team squad despite lack of depth in that position. Mitchell - No comment required. So yes, we've let 6 players go who've made a combined 30 appearances so far this season. Have we replaced them externally? No Have we promoted youth *successfully*? Yes. The emergence of Bird, Sibley, Knight, and to a lesser extent Whittaker (still unproven), more than makes up the quality. So why waste money if we've decided to go into a holding pattern until the end of the season? Whilst I agree with your sentiment and the logic behind the players going (and the young lads coming through) it still leaves us short on goals and defensive options , none of the kids are coming through at centerback and none so far as strikers , if we carry on not scoring enough and not defending enough then we are going to be in trouble Both Mel and PC both said they wanted players in to cover those positions (loans probably although they would not be blocking and of our own coming through)) and so far we have signed none , it appears to me that we are just going to go through the motions for the second half of the season and "hope" we don't get relegated , that is just not good enough imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, Papahet said: Shocking window, I feel for Cocu because he’s the one who’ll get the flack and not the ones behind the scenes. ? That’s who I feel sorry for too. I don’t think he’s the right man to take us forward mind but there’s been too much turmoil at the club since he’s been here, most of which not his fault. The people saying to give him time to bring his own signings and build the squad in his identity, he most likely won’t be able to get that opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erathirea Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 If we assume we won't sign anyone (still 7 hours to go): We clearly wanted Benkovic. Delays due to injuries couldn't be helped. We've been messed around and it *seems* (no proof) that Bristol have offered a bigger loan fee, and a promotion battle. Whilst annoying, I don't see what we could have done much differently. Makoudi - Sounds like he was one of our leading options but his club didn't want him to leave (or at least, leave at the price we were offering). Gronigen captain - Sounds like he was a bit lower down the list as we were focussing on one of the above. Approached later in the window as other options seemed to be likely to miss out on. They want to keep him until summer- sounds like we might be in for him then. I agree it's frustrating that we haven't signed backup in that position. But we *do* have 3 players who are fit and very capable of playing there (Wisdom, Clarke, Davies), another who can play there if necessary (Forsyth) and stop gaps if necessary with Evans (when fit) and Huddlestone (likewise). 3 "first choice" centre backs is enough to get us to the end of the season, if the alternative is paying over the odds. Winger - again, sounds like we had a couple of leading targets. Couldn't get them, so didn't pay over the odds and didn't just "settle" for another Paterson. None of our right wingers are natural wingers, but Knight and Waghorn have both proven they can do a job there. A perfect window for me would have been a CB and a winger. I liked the sound of Jozwiak, but I'd rather get no-one that get someone who will either a) prevent Knight getting game time without SIGNIFICANTLY improving the squad or b) cost the earth. Incidentally, I think we have money to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, nottingram said: So much bed wetting No there isn’t, stop exaggerating. People are frustrated due to lack of signings and rightly so with all the uncertainty behind the scenes. There was a lot of excitement before the window opened because of the rumoured new investment and Rooney able to play officially for us from January 1st, there was reason for optimism after a first half of the season filled with turmoil but now everything has gone flat again. Whilst I’m not particularly bothered myself because the season is over for us in my opinion, other people have every right to be disappointed because there was *some hope* that getting in the right signings with the new investment would give us an outside chance of the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 two incomings: the lad from villa & the dutch cb (in the summer) 4 outgoings To be fair it could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Billy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Squid said: two incomings: the lad from villa & the dutch cb (in the summer) 4 outgoings To be fair it could be worse. The window has not closed yet , PC indicated there might be another out ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wignall12 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Squid said: two incomings: the lad from villa & the dutch cb (in the summer) 4 outgoings To be fair it could be worse. I'm personally pleased we haven't panic bought and overpaid Roll on summer , I've got a feelin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, Sport Billy said: The window has not closed yet , PC indicated there might be another out ...... true and if it is it'll be Jack Marriott to Hull on loan but I don't know whether it will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedshuls Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Squid said: two incomings: the lad from villa & the dutch cb (in the summer) 4 outgoings To be fair it could be worse. Soooo we’ve basically signed no one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Billy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sexydadbod said: No there isn’t, stop exaggerating. People are frustrated due to lack of signings and rightly so with all the uncertainty behind the scenes. There was a lot of excitement before the window opened because of the rumoured new investment and Rooney able to play officially for us from January 1st, there was reason for optimism after a first half of the season filled with turmoil but now everything has gone flat again. Whilst I’m not particularly bothered myself because the season is over for us in my opinion, other people have every right to be disappointed because there was *some hope* that getting in the right signings with the new investment would give us an outside chance of the play offs. It's not about the play offs for me , we are in very real danger of getting sucked into a relegation fight (especially if our home form dips) and we have shown in most away games that we don't have the bottle for a scrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.