Types of transfers?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Nuwtfly said:

The window was open for a significantly longer period last year though, wasn't it?

Dunno. Just think there seems to be some kind of mass hysteria going - it's like buses, another comes along in Jan. Plus he's here four years, don't want no more Blackman/Anya signings thanks.

[SaintRam]

4 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

The window was open for a significantly longer period last year though, wasn't it?

 

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno. Just think there seems to be some kind of mass hysteria going - it's like buses, another comes along in Jan. Plus he's here four years, don't want no more Blackman/Anya signings thanks.

Thursday, August 9, 2018

Thursday, August 8, 2019

 

Closing dates for the windows.

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno. Just think there seems to be some kind of mass hysteria going - it's like buses, another comes along in Jan. Plus he's here four years, don't want no more Blackman/Anya signings thanks.

It shuts on the 8th of August this year I believe. 

[Ramos]

14 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

The window was open for a significantly longer period last year though, wasn't it?

Closed before the first game of the prem season last year so around August 5 I think if I remember rightly 

[Ghost of Clough]

52 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

For one, it’s not just mount Tomori, Mount and Wilson we’ve lost, we’ve also lost Bryson, Johnson, cole, Nugent, Pearce, Olsson, Ambrose and Thomas. Now the latter 4 played little role last season so these don’t need replacements, and Cole has already been replaced by the returning lowe. But the former three played roles of varying importance last season and have yet to be replaced. So there’s 6 needed at least imo. You could argue shinnie has replaced Johnson but I think we were already a Cm short last season so we’re still one short now. Beyond that, we were a centre back short anyway imho the whole way through last season, hence having to rely on Evans there at times, so there’s 7. 

In terms of players who aren’t good enough, I don’t think Carson is good enough to be our first choice goalie, and would look to replace him or Roos- there’s the 8 minimum I said in a later post. Beyond that for the ideal double figures, I don’t think josefzoons good enough so I’d look to replace him, and I’d probably look at a new CDM to replace Huddlestone with a bit more pace. There’s your double figures.

Obviously this is assuming that no players deemed surplus to requirements already make a return, and that no youngsters get promoted. As I said some of these roles could be filled by young players, but I dont think it’ll be more than a couple.

Fine, let’s look at the players we’ve lost and pretend no youths will step up...

Tomori - Part replaced by Davies. Hopefully part replaced by a new signing. 

Cole - 11 games played. Easily replaced by Forsyth and/or Lowe

Johnson - 31 games played. Increased contribution from Evans and Bird who only played in 11 and 4 league games last season

Bryson - 28 games played Replaced by Shinnie.

Mount - 38 games played. Greater contribution from Holmes who played in 27 games. 1 extra player required

Wilson - 27 starts on the wing in the league. Replaced by increased contributions from Jozefzoon and Bennett. As long as both stay fit this is possible. Bennett played 33/49 games and Jozefzoon 28/49. Waghorn can also fill in.

Nugent - 32 games played. Replaced by Martin. Waghorn will play centrally more often too.

3 regular starters a 3 regular squad options to make up for.

 

GK is a debatable one. The two we currently have have proven they’re good enough for a top 6 side though.

Not sure why you want to swap squad players (Huddlestone and Jozefzoon) for new squad players. Players who would cost us something to recruit. Funds we’d be better off using to recruit in positions we need.

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

You’re expecting a number of these youths to be ready though without really knowing whether they’re good enough yet or not.That’s a huge risk to be taking. There’s no doubt we have a number of players with serious potential, but many of them are still very young, for them to be ready at this stage would be ahead in their development.

In most instances, I don’t think the youths will to play often unless they impress when given a chance. These being CB, LB, RW, CF.

Currently, the youth CMs will need to adapt to first team football quickly. About 30 of Mount’s appearances need to be replaced. Potentially a big ask, which is why it’s one of the positions we need to recruit.

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

As I said previously, I count youth promotions as “signings” because they haven’t been part of the first team before, so i include youth promotions in the number of signings I was talking about previously. But I really don’t think the number your suggesting will be ready, I reckon 1/2 tops. Probably sibley and perhaps Mitchell Lawson. The rest I’m not sure will be ready to be called upon yet, and Bateman is a proper left field one- from what I’ve seen he isn’t anywhere near the level yet.

They have regularly trained with the first team. I will not accept them as being classed at “new signings”.

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’d argue our current squad, assuming 433 of course is:

Gk- Carson, Roos, Mitchell...... I reckon one of the former two will leave, so someone is required here.

Possibly

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

RB- Bogle, Wisdom.... I think bogle will be sold for big money so we need someone here

Doubt it

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

CB- Davies, Keogh... Two needed here

No chance of 2. Keogh doesn’t know what missing a game is. So we’d be wasting money on someone who will sit at home most weekends - absolutely not necessary when we have Buchanan, Wisdom, Evans, Forsyth and MacDonald who can fill in for the odd game.

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

LB- Forsyth, Malone, Lowe... reckon lowe will go out on loan so we’re ok here

CDM- Bird, Evans, Huddlestone, Thorne... overstocked here and need two out

CM- Shinnie, Holmes, butterfield... Butterfield is all but gone so we’re severely under stocked here, I think we need 3 in

Disagree on the numbers in and out due to some players being suitable for more than just 1 out of the 3 roles in midfield

DM - Bird, Evans, Huddlestone, Thorne, Shinnie

CM - Bird, Evans, Shinnie, Holmes

AM - Holmes

3 positions over a 46 games season will result in about 200 apps. 40 from Holmes, 30 from Shinnie and Evans, 20 from Bird and Huddlestone, and 10 from Thorne isn’t too unrealistic. Leaves us with 50 apps to find - 1 decent player and 1 backup required

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Wingers- Lawrence, Bennett, Josefzoon, Anya, Blackman... Blackman is all but gone, Anya won’t be part of the team and josefzoon will be sold I reckon. Two short here imo.

5 wingers is OTT!

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

CF- Waghorn, Marriott, Martin... One of our stronger positions, there’s the strong possibility of martin going though so one in May be needed here.

Obviously some of these ins can be youth players being promoted as I’ve said, no problem with that if they’re ready. But like I say, I doubt they’ll be more than a couple ready, the number you’re suggesting getting involved is unrealistic imo.

It’s perfectly realistic. A couple of games here and there for each youth is all. Looking at the youths who went to the USA (and Sibley):

Bateman - 3rd choice RB. Not likely to play unless we suffer an injury crisis

Buchanan - possibly 2nd choice LCB. Lower down the pecking order if we include Evans, Wisdom and Forsyth. I expect a new signing in this area so he probably won’t play many times.

MacDonald - behind Malone, Forsyth and Lowe. So unless 1 or 2 leave he won’t play much either. 9 games on the bench last season suggests it isn’t too unrealistic to see him break into the team.

Bird - 2 starts and 15 games on the bench with half of those coming on. Regular squad player at least this season. 

Sibley - Possibly the best player at U23 level in the country last season. The only youth other than Bird I’m hopeful of becoming a regular. 

Knight - Personally, I don’t think he’s quite ready yet. Possibly a few games towards the end of the season.

Mitchell-Lawson - 3rd choice RW behind Bennett and Jozefzoon. Maybe even 4th choice if you include Waghorn. Maybe just a handful of games.

Whittaker - 4th/5th choice CF behind Martin and Bennett. 4th/5th choice RW behind Mitchell-Lawson. Doubtful he’ll play often

30 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’ve never tried to argue we sign loads more players and don’t let any go, there’s a number that need to/ are expected to leave as well to keep the squad size right. Many signings will be on a one in one out basis. But if you think our squad depth is off sufficient quality then you’re deluded imo, the numbers may be there but the men currently there aren’t good enough. Obviously we spend big money on the players coming in as first choice and use some youngsters as squad players, but to say we need no squad players i can’t agree with. 

If you think we’ll get where we need to be with 3 signings then you’re off your head.

 

2 signings for the first team is all I believe we need (CB and CM/AM) to maintain a top 6 finish. After that we’d me making minor upgrades on squad players. GK, RB, RW and possibly another mid. 

[muttley72]

Haven’t the rules changed for loan signings this year? Last year was up to 31st Aug and this year the same as perm deals? Or am I talking rubbish? ?

 

[EnigmaRam]

48 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Where have I said I want quantity over quality? I’ve never said we bloat the squad, I quite clearly said on multiple occasions I expect similar numbers out of players not good enough/ not suited. I’ve always advocated quality over quantity, but you do still need a 25 man first team squad imo with the number of injury’s we get. Most of the budget should naturally go on 4/5 players who’ll be majorly involved, but you can’t neglect the importance of having squad players as well, so we need a number of signings to make sure we have sufficient quality and suitability of our options- but these will mainly be replacing outgoing players who aren’t good enough, thus not adding to the numbers.

Also, if you’d actually bother to read my post, I said that any of the signings I’m suggesting could be a youth promoted from the academy if they’re deemed good Enough. If there are players suitable coming through then that’s excellent news and I’ll be all for them taking some of the aforementioned places in the squad. But they do have to be ready, many of those with potential are still very young. I really don’t think you can expect more than a couple to be ready, so we still need a number of signings. It’s not blocking the chance of youngsters, it’s deciding on which ones are ready. We can’t go into the season assuming more will come through magically that weren’t ready in pre season imo. We need to be clear on our squad at the end of the window. Pre season is the chance for youngsters to impress and get a role in the first team- like bogle last season when he broke into the squad initially as backup RB before overhauling wisdom later on. If they don’t impress and show themselves ready at this point, then I’m afraid we have to cover our backs and bring in players externally to take the roles the youngsters could potentially have taken were they ready. Things can be reassessed in January if someone impresses in the youth teams, but one pre season is over we need to cover our backs if youngsters aren’t ready and bring in others. It’s the way it is.

Well you said we need to sign double figures and didn’t mention how they are made up. You’ve since started adding in promoting youth to your argument as new signings which they aren’t.

maybe break down what should be permanent signings, what should be loan and what should be promotion from the academy as currently your just saying double figures with no basis of where or who.

for me we need a CB and CM as permanent signings. With 2 or 3 loans, CM, RW and LW maybe but depends on availability

[Millenniumram]

59 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Fine, let’s look at the players we’ve lost and pretend no youths will step up...

Tomori - Part replaced by Davies. Hopefully part replaced by a new signing. 

Cole - 11 games played. Easily replaced by Forsyth and/or Lowe

Johnson - 31 games played. Increased contribution from Evans and Bird who only played in 11 and 4 league games last season

Bryson - 28 games played Replaced by Shinnie.

Mount - 38 games played. Greater contribution from Holmes who played in 27 games. 1 extra player required

Wilson - 27 starts on the wing in the league. Replaced by increased contributions from Jozefzoon and Bennett. As long as both stay fit this is possible. Bennett played 33/49 games and Jozefzoon 28/49. Waghorn can also fill in.

Nugent - 32 games played. Replaced by Martin. Waghorn will play centrally more often too.

3 regular starters a 3 regular squad options to make up for.

 

GK is a debatable one. The two we currently have have proven they’re good enough for a top 6 side though.

Not sure why you want to swap squad players (Huddlestone and Jozefzoon) for new squad players. Players who would cost us something to recruit. Funds we’d be better off using to recruit in positions we need.

In most instances, I don’t think the youths will to play often unless they impress when given a chance. These being CB, LB, RW, CF.

Currently, the youth CMs will need to adapt to first team football quickly. About 30 of Mount’s appearances need to be replaced. Potentially a big ask, which is why it’s one of the positions we need to recruit.

They have regularly trained with the first team. I will not accept them as being classed at “new signings”.

Possibly

Doubt it

No chance of 2. Keogh doesn’t know what missing a game is. So we’d be wasting money on someone who will sit at home most weekends - absolutely not necessary when we have Buchanan, Wisdom, Evans, Forsyth and MacDonald who can fill in for the odd game.

Disagree on the numbers in and out due to some players being suitable for more than just 1 out of the 3 roles in midfield

DM - Bird, Evans, Huddlestone, Thorne, Shinnie

CM - Bird, Evans, Shinnie, Holmes

AM - Holmes

3 positions over a 46 games season will result in about 200 apps. 40 from Holmes, 30 from Shinnie and Evans, 20 from Bird and Huddlestone, and 10 from Thorne isn’t too unrealistic. Leaves us with 50 apps to find - 1 decent player and 1 backup required

5 wingers is OTT!

It’s perfectly realistic. A couple of games here and there for each youth is all. Looking at the youths who went to the USA (and Sibley):

Bateman - 3rd choice RB. Not likely to play unless we suffer an injury crisis

Buchanan - possibly 2nd choice LCB. Lower down the pecking order if we include Evans, Wisdom and Forsyth. I expect a new signing in this area so he probably won’t play many times.

MacDonald - behind Malone, Forsyth and Lowe. So unless 1 or 2 leave he won’t play much either. 9 games on the bench last season suggests it isn’t too unrealistic to see him break into the team.

Bird - 2 starts and 15 games on the bench with half of those coming on. Regular squad player at least this season. 

Sibley - Possibly the best player at U23 level in the country last season. The only youth other than Bird I’m hopeful of becoming a regular. 

Knight - Personally, I don’t think he’s quite ready yet. Possibly a few games towards the end of the season.

Mitchell-Lawson - 3rd choice RW behind Bennett and Jozefzoon. Maybe even 4th choice if you include Waghorn. Maybe just a handful of games.

Whittaker - 4th/5th choice CF behind Martin and Bennett. 4th/5th choice RW behind Mitchell-Lawson. Doubtful he’ll play often

2 signings for the first team is all I believe we need (CB and CM/AM) to maintain a top 6 finish. After that we’d me making minor upgrades on squad players. GK, RB, RW and possibly another mid. 

Right I’ll do the same:

Tomori- Davies returns but we were short anyway, needs replacing

Cole- Replaced by the returning forsyth

Johnson- needs replacing in his role as a CM, rather than his cdm role that he played out of position imo mostly last year. Also don’t think Evans is good enough to be more than backup, ditto with bird at this stage in time tho maybe he’ll have a little more involvement off the bench than last year.

Bryson- Indeed, replaced by shinnie, but again we were short in CM last year already so another still needed here

Mount- Absolutely vital to replace, biggest signing needs to be here.

Wilson- Top goalscorer last season, no way on earth can he be replaced by Bennett and josefzoon! Not a chance. Numbers wise maybe, but quality absolutely not! The latter of the two needs to go, and Wilson needs replacing with another big signing- secondary only to mount.

Nugent- Small possibility of Martin replacing him, more than likely needs replacing though and Martin will leave. Waghorn will be first choice but we still need another here.

Dont think goalkeeper should be a debatable one- they’re both quality shot stoppers but we need more. I explained the importance in my previous post. Huddlestone and josefzoon replacements are of lower importance but still would improve us imo. Huddlestone atm isn’t a squad player either- he’s the best CDM we have under contract. If people don’t like that, then he does need replacing- and it won’t be a squad player coming in there. Josefzoon I’m expecting to leave anyway so will need replacing also. These aren’t unnecessary signings, lower priority perhaps, but still potentially needed.

You don’t know the youths won’t be needed this is the point, who knows what injuries we may face. You can say things are unlikely but you can’t rule anything out- we’d be stupid going into the season with players that aren’t good enough to play championship football in roles where they could be potentially be called upon. Squad depth is vital in the championship, surely we all know that by now with the number of games and injuries. I’m all for youths being involved in certain roles in the squad that are ready, but let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot by putting players in who aren’t ready and ruin our promotion chances because we get an injury and the only man we have to cover is a 17 year old. That’s not even to mention the negative effect on that players development that rushing them would have. Let them progress naturally and involve them when they’re ready. Until they are, we need squad players in,  in roles where there are no youths ready to fill.

From youths I can see, I wouldn’t mind Buchanan being a backup centre back as I think he’s ready, and sibley being involved in midfield rotation as he’s a top talent. Beyond that, Mitchell Lawson could be an off the bench winger. Don’t think anyone else is ready to be Involved in a 25 man squad for me. We’ll have to recruit for the other roles.

How can someone who’s never played for the first team not be classed as someone new?! They may have trained with them but that’s totally different to actually have a role in, and potentially playing in, the first team. Ridiculous claim that they can’t be called new signings. That would be exactly what they’d be if they became part of the first team for the first time. Any youth promotion is a new signing de facto in my book.

At right back, I’d be very surprised if there wasn’t prem interest in bogle. In fact I have reliable knowledge that we’re expecting it, but hope to keep a hold of him. Wouldn’t rule out stupid money meaning a sale, every player has a price. At CB, as I say those two signings could be youth promotions and I expect Buchanan could be one, we 100% need another though. Tomori back ideally. Just because Keogh has rarely been injured before doesn’t mean he won’t be injured this year. You can’t gamble too much. You really don’t want to be playing players like forsyth, macdonald and Evans out of position. Or using wisdom who can’t pass for that matter.

I don’t agree with the way you’re looking at midfield either. Sure most those players can play anywhere in midfield, but to get the best out of players you need to be playing them in their natural positions. I’m a great believer in round pegs in round holes and most importantly getting the midfield balance right which we haven’t in years so I stand by my view if midfield. Can’t just look at numbers and how many games they can play, that’s too simplistic, you have to look at forming a balanced midfield. Shoving cdms into cm like you’re suggesting will just result in a poor quality unbalanced midfield. That’s been our problem for a while and needs to resolved. So I stand by shifting some of the too defensive CMs and bringing in some more attacking ones to get the balance right.

You obviously can’t count wingers, because last time I checked, 2+2=4.

Again, you really can’t guarantee that it’ll only be a couple of games here and there for youths. If they’re gonna be involved in the first team squad in a role no matter the significance of it, then they have to be able to be relied upon to play that role at Championship level in case they’re called upon. Who knows what can happen with injuries, and now the loan window in the middles of the season is gone (wrongly imo), if injuries happen, it’ll only be those youths we can call upon. They have to be good enough. If they are, they take a role and we need one less transfer in. If not, then that role needs filling with an incoming. Simple as.

In terms of the youths in the US for me..

Bateman- Not ready to be considered yet. Don’t need a third choice RB anyway so we’re good.

Buchanan- Already said he may be ready to be a cover centre back. We still need a big ish signing here to replace Tomori too tho. And we don’t want to end up with Forsyth, Evans, wisdom etc out of position if we can help it

Macdonald- Were covered at LB so I’d loan him out to whatever level he’s at atm

Bird- Already first team for me and I’ve included him as such in my squad analysis

Sibley- I rate hugely and could be competition for a new signing in Cm, rotating in and out and coming off the bench. Still need a couple more in there even with sibley promoted though.

Knight- Could cover CM but still need those signings as above

Mitchell-Lawson- could be an off the bench winger as I said before, but again I’d expect josefzoon to leave so still another man needed here and was as JML as rotation/ cover

Whittaker- Will be a supreme talent but isn’t ready yet imo

No offence mate, but I genuinely worry if you think we can just sign two men, including only one midfielder, and get top six with this squad. There’s no way on earth that’s happening and luckily I’m sure cocu isn’t quite as deluded. We don’t need to make the squad bigger, but we do need to shift and replace a lot more poo than just a couple of players.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, EnigmaRam said:

Well you said we need to sign double figures and didn’t mention how they are made up. You’ve since started adding in promoting youth to your argument as new signings which they aren’t.

maybe break down what should be permanent signings, what should be loan and what should be promotion from the academy as currently your just saying double figures with no basis of where or who.

for me we need a CB and CM as permanent signings. With 2 or 3 loans, CM, RW and LW maybe but depends on availability

Have you actually even read my posts or can’t you be bothered?! Have look here to refresh your memory on my first post on this subject:

 

On 05/07/2019 at 08:47, Millenniumram said:

Dunno what some of you lot are on saying we only need the odd transfer. We’re horrendously short in midfield and centre back, and severely lacking quality on the wing as well. I honestly think to build the squad we need we need double figures in players numbers in, loan or permanent. Maybe a couple can be from the academy but you’re over optimistic if you think all the positions are gonna be filled by young players. Need quite a few out naturally as well.

I quite clearly state that the signings can be filled from the academy from the very start, I didn’t start adding it to my argument at all. And they might not be new signings in your book, but anyone new to the first team is a new signing in my book. U23s/u18s haven’t been first team, ergo, are new signings. IMHO anyway. 

In terms of where the signings come from, that’s not really my call. All depends on what players are available on loan/ permanent and what positions that we’re looking for they play in. Also depends which youths are good enough and where they play. Difficult as supporters to see which are good enough, only those who’ve seen them training and all their youth games can really tell with an assurance. Only thing I can really tell is what we need in our squad based on what we saw last year, and I’ve written about that in-depth multiple times.

[Comrade 86]

My head hurts

[Ghost of Clough]

Thanks for the numerous insults ?

The noises coming from Mel, Cocu and others suggests we’ll see youths play more games and get more minutes than last season. You’re almost suggesting to sign a bunch of players which would prevent this. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Right I’ll do the same:

Tomori- Davies returns but we were short anyway, needs replacing

Cole- Replaced by the returning forsyth

So far so good - we both agree.

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Johnson- needs replacing in his role as a CM, rather than his cdm role that he played out of position imo mostly last year. Also don’t think Evans is good enough to be more than backup, ditto with bird at this stage in time tho maybe he’ll have a little more involvement off the bench than last year.

Why do we need a replacement for Johnson in a position he barely played? He was predominantly DM which is what we need to replace. Bird, Evans and Thorne hardly played last season and potentially will cover the games played by Johnson. Until they’re judged not good enough, I’ll consider them good enough. 3 DMs would be ideal in normal circumstances, but out of our 4, one is injury prone, one is coming to the end of his career, one is at the start of his career and is likely to play on both this role and a slightly more advanced role during the season, the fourth will sometimes be playing in different roles/positions. Bird will play a lot more - only 1 start and 3 sub apps in the league last season.

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Bryson- Indeed, replaced by shinnie, but again we were short in CM last year already so another still needed here

We were short when we had a bit of an injury crisis. This is exactly when youths should step in rather than signing a bunch of backup players. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Mount- Absolutely vital to replace, biggest signing needs to be here.

Wilson- Top goalscorer last season, no way on earth can he be replaced by Bennett and josefzoon! Not a chance. Numbers wise maybe, but quality absolutely not! The latter of the two needs to go, and Wilson needs replacing with another big signing- secondary only to mount.

The rest of the team are incapable of improving on last season then? As it happens, Bennett’s goal contribution wasn’t too far behind Wilson’s. 1 goal or assist every 180 mins. Wilson was 1 every 173. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Nugent- Small possibility of Martin replacing him, more than likely needs replacing though and Martin will leave. Waghorn will be first choice but we still need another here.

Can’t see us signing someone to come in as 3rd choice. If it isn’t Martin, it’s probably because we have a solution already at the club. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Dont think goalkeeper should be a debatable one- they’re both quality shot stoppers but we need more. I explained the importance in my previous post.

Except it is debatable. Hence why there’s a separate thread on whether Carson, Roos or someone else should be first choice. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Huddlestone and josefzoon replacements are of lower importance but still would improve us imo. Huddlestone atm isn’t a squad player either- he’s the best CDM we have under contract. If people don’t like that, then he does need replacing- and it won’t be a squad player coming in there. Josefzoon I’m expecting to leave anyway so will need replacing also. These aren’t unnecessary signings, lower priority perhaps, but still potentially needed.

Would you say Huddlestone and Johnson were squad players last season? Johnson only played 4 more than Huddlestone’s 27 last season. Both squad players in my book. Huddlestone will play around the same number of games this season, if not slightly less.

Improving on Huddlestone and Jozefzoon will cost money, it’ll only for a slight improvement, and is short sighted due to the increased chance of the player losing value. Using that money towards someone coming in as a starter is a more sensible option.

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

You don’t know the youths won’t be needed this is the point, who knows what injuries we may face. You can say things are unlikely but you can’t rule anything out- we’d be stupid going into the season with players that aren’t good enough to play championship football in roles where they could be potentially be called upon. Squad depth is vital in the championship, surely we all know that by now with the number of games and injuries. I’m all for youths being involved in certain roles in the squad that are ready, but let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot by putting players in who aren’t ready and ruin our promotion chances because we get an injury and the only man we have to cover is a 17 year old. That’s not even to mention the negative effect on that players development that rushing them would have. Let them progress naturally and involve them when they’re ready. Until they are, we need squad players in,  in roles where there are no youths ready to fill.

You seem to be missing the point here. The use of youths as outlined by myself is almost as a ‘in case of emergency’ situation. Bateman 3rd RB, Buchanan 3rd left CB, Whittaker 4th CF, Mitchell-Lawson 3rd RW kind of proves this. Exceptions are only really in the CM areas, but this is also where our most promising youths play. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

From youths I can see, I wouldn’t mind Buchanan being a backup centre back as I think he’s ready, and sibley being involved in midfield rotation as he’s a top talent. Beyond that, Mitchell Lawson could be an off the bench winger. Don’t think anyone else is ready to be Involved in a 25 man squad for me. We’ll have to recruit for the other roles.

How can someone who’s never played for the first team not be classed as someone new?! They may have trained with them but that’s totally different to actually have a role in, and potentially playing in, the first team. Ridiculous claim that they can’t be called new signings. That would be exactly what they’d be if they became part of the first team for the first time. Any youth promotion is a new signing de facto in my book.

You’re one of the very few who see it that way. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

At right back, I’d be very surprised if there wasn’t prem interest in bogle. In fact I have reliable knowledge that we’re expecting it, but hope to keep a hold of him. Wouldn’t rule out stupid money meaning a sale, every player has a price.

Hasn't Mel commented on not selling him as he hasn’t reached peak value yet?

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

At CB, as I say those two signings could be youth promotions and I expect Buchanan could be one, we 100% need another though. Tomori back ideally. Just because Keogh has rarely been injured before doesn’t mean he won’t be injured this year. You can’t gamble too much. You really don’t want to be playing players like forsyth, macdonald and Evans out of position. Or using wisdom who can’t pass for that matter.

You can’t sign players on big wages because the almost unexpected will happen. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I don’t agree with the way you’re looking at midfield either. Sure most those players can play anywhere in midfield, but to get the best out of players you need to be playing them in their natural positions. I’m a great believer in round pegs in round holes and most importantly getting the midfield balance right which we haven’t in years so I stand by my view if midfield. Can’t just look at numbers and how many games they can play, that’s too simplistic, you have to look at forming a balanced midfield. Shoving cdms into cm like you’re suggesting will just result in a poor quality unbalanced midfield. That’s been our problem for a while and needs to resolved. So I stand by shifting some of the too defensive CMs and bringing in some more attacking ones to get the balance right.

It depends more on the role being asked of them rather than the position on the field. Some players like Bird are equally adept at playing in different roles.

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

You obviously can’t count wingers, because last time I checked, 2+2=4.

Missed out the bit where you said sell Jozefzoon. He along with lawrence, Bemnett, am your 2 new signings made my 5. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Again, you really can’t guarantee that it’ll only be a couple of games here and there for youths. If they’re gonna be involved in the first team squad in a role no matter the significance of it, then they have to be able to be relied upon to play that role at Championship level in case they’re called upon. Who knows what can happen with injuries, and now the loan window in the middles of the season is gone (wrongly imo), if injuries happen, it’ll only be those youths we can call upon. They have to be good enough. If they are, they take a role and we need one less transfer in. If not, then that role needs filling with an incoming. Simple as.

Again, you’ve missed the point of giving youths opportunities. You’re almost suggesting we have 3 players in each position in case of an injury crisis. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

In terms of the youths in the US for me..

Bateman- Not ready to be considered yet. Don’t need a third choice RB anyway so we’re good.

Contradicting yourself here. You previously mentioned not knowing what can happen with injuries. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Buchanan- Already said he may be ready to be a cover centre back. We still need a big ish signing here to replace Tomori too tho. And we don’t want to end up with Forsyth, Evans, wisdom etc out of position if we can help it

I think we agree here

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Macdonald- Were covered at LB so I’d loan him out to whatever level he’s at atm

Partly agree. I think it’ll be either Lowe or Macdonald on loan anyway. 

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Bird- Already first team for me and I’ve included him as such in my squad analysis

Sibley- I rate hugely and could be competition for a new signing in Cm, rotating in and out and coming off the bench. Still need a couple more in there even with sibley promoted though.

More likely to be competition with Holmes based on playing style

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Knight- Could cover CM but still need those signings as above

Mitchell-Lawson- could be an off the bench winger as I said before, but again I’d expect josefzoon to leave so still another man needed here and was as JML as rotation/ cover

Agree here

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Whittaker- Will be a supreme talent but isn’t ready yet imo

That’s why he’d be considered 4th/5th choice...

54 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

No offence mate, but I genuinely worry if you think we can just sign two men, including only one midfielder, and get top six with this squad. There’s no way on earth that’s happening and luckily I’m sure cocu isn’t quite as deluded. We don’t need to make the squad bigger, but we do need to shift and replace a lot more poo than just a couple of players.

Thanks again for throwing a casual insult in there ?

[Kuskus]

Goalkeepers: Roos and possibly a new one 

Defenders: Keogh Davies Wisdom Bogle Malone Forsyth Lowe and a New CB

Midfielders: Shinnie Huddlestone Evans Holmes and 2 new signings or possibly Sibley or Bird could make the step up

Forwards: Lawrence Jozefzoon Bennett Waghorn Marriott and a New winger or Whittaker or Mitchelllawson could make the step up 

Get rid of: Martin Carson Anya Blackman Butterfield and Thorne 

[Brammie Steve]

I am amazed by the high standard of intelligence and insight shown by contributors to this topic.

We are embarking on a second Magical Mystery Tour with a top manager who could do worse than read this forum.

 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Brummie Steve said:

I am amazed by the high standard of intelligence and insight shown by contributors to this topic.

We are embarking on a second Magical Mystery Tour with a top manager who could do worse than read this forum.

See I think my sarcasm radar might be badly malfunctioning. I'm pretty sure @Ghost of Clough nailed me with one earlier and I seriously can't tell whether you'e taking the proverbial here either. I might go have a lie down. 

[Brammie Steve]

1 minute ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

See I think my sarcasm radar might be badly malfunctioning. I'm pretty sure @Ghost of Clough nailed me with one earlier and I seriously can't tell whether you'e taking the proverbial here either. I might go have a lie down. 

A genuine heartfelt compliment!

We have been desensitised by Parliament to the point where nothing is taken at face value.

Compliments are treated as sarcasm or sycophancy or back handers.

Insults generate more insults.

Where will it all end?

It’s no good asking anyone else ‘cos they don’t know either.

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

A genuine heartfelt compliment!

We have been desensitised by Parliament to the point where nothing is taken at face value.

Compliments are treated as sarcasm or sycophancy or back handers.

Insults generate more insults.

Where will it all end?

It’s no good asking anyone else ‘cos they don’t know either.

Phew! In that case, have a retrospective 'like' ?I still think GoC nailed me though ?

[SaintRam]

I don't have the attention span for posts like that @Ghost of Clough but as you started off on my page I assume you continued in that vein. ? 

[Millenniumram]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Thanks for the numerous insults ?

The noises coming from Mel, Cocu and others suggests we’ll see youths play more games and get more minutes than last season. You’re almost suggesting to sign a bunch of players which would prevent this. 

So far so good - we both agree.

Why do we need a replacement for Johnson in a position he barely played? He was predominantly DM which is what we need to replace. Bird, Evans and Thorne hardly played last season and potentially will cover the games played by Johnson. Until they’re judged not good enough, I’ll consider them good enough. 3 DMs would be ideal in normal circumstances, but out of our 4, one is injury prone, one is coming to the end of his career, one is at the start of his career and is likely to play on both this role and a slightly more advanced role during the season, the fourth will sometimes be playing in different roles/positions. Bird will play a lot more - only 1 start and 3 sub apps in the league last season.

We were short when we had a bit of an injury crisis. This is exactly when youths should step in rather than signing a bunch of backup players. 

The rest of the team are incapable of improving on last season then? As it happens, Bennett’s goal contribution wasn’t too far behind Wilson’s. 1 goal or assist every 180 mins. Wilson was 1 every 173. 

Can’t see us signing someone to come in as 3rd choice. If it isn’t Martin, it’s probably because we have a solution already at the club. 

Except it is debatable. Hence why there’s a separate thread on whether Carson, Roos or someone else should be first choice. 

Would you say Huddlestone and Johnson were squad players last season? Johnson only played 4 more than Huddlestone’s 27 last season. Both squad players in my book. Huddlestone will play around the same number of games this season, if not slightly less.

Improving on Huddlestone and Jozefzoon will cost money, it’ll only for a slight improvement, and is short sighted due to the increased chance of the player losing value. Using that money towards someone coming in as a starter is a more sensible option.

You seem to be missing the point here. The use of youths as outlined by myself is almost as a ‘in case of emergency’ situation. Bateman 3rd RB, Buchanan 3rd left CB, Whittaker 4th CF, Mitchell-Lawson 3rd RW kind of proves this. Exceptions are only really in the CM areas, but this is also where our most promising youths play. 

You’re one of the very few who see it that way. 

Hasn't Mel commented on not selling him as he hasn’t reached peak value yet?

You can’t sign players on big wages because the almost unexpected will happen. 

It depends more on the role being asked of them rather than the position on the field. Some players like Bird are equally adept at playing in different roles.

Missed out the bit where you said sell Jozefzoon. He along with lawrence, Bemnett, am your 2 new signings made my 5. 

Again, you’ve missed the point of giving youths opportunities. You’re almost suggesting we have 3 players in each position in case of an injury crisis. 

Contradicting yourself here. You previously mentioned not knowing what can happen with injuries. 

I think we agree here

Partly agree. I think it’ll be either Lowe or Macdonald on loan anyway. 

More likely to be competition with Holmes based on playing style

Agree here

That’s why he’d be considered 4th/5th choice...

Thanks again for throwing a casual insult in there ?

Not trying to insult you mate, I’m perfectly happy to have reasonable debates on here like this one, it’s what the forums for. I’m just genuinely flabbergasted at some of the views on this thread that our squad is nearly ready- a total detachment from what was being said a few weeks ago- tho I admit not by the same people. I’m clearly in the minority but I don’t think we’re anywhere near ready for an assault on the top six, I just can’t believe there’s so many that think otherwise. It just seems a little idealistic and delusional to me, and I remain convinced we’ll see closer ins to my minimum 8 than we will to your minimum 2. We’ll see. 

Dont think there’s much point carrying the debate on further as while we agree on certain intricacies that could be looked at further, the overarching opinion of neither of us is going to change. And also frankly as well structured as your responses have been, to continue writing responses will take me the rest of the night? As I say though, I’m not trying to insult you, Im just in disbelief at this thread In general frankly. It’s been a good and a fair debate and you’re entitled to your opinion, I just can’t quite believe you’d have such an extreme one.

[Birdyabroad]

The thing I find most interesting, and a little exciting, about our transfer policy this summer is that I have absolutely NO IDEA what the policy is going to be.

When we appointed Frank and Jody last year, rumours quickly surfaced that we would be looking at some Chelsea youngsters and, sure enough, Tomori and Mount signed on.

However, with the new man Cocu, we have ZERO idea whether he is going to:

1, Try and add OLDER or YOUNGER players? The thought is that he will try and bring through youth, but will he want some more experienced heads?

2, Will he go for LOANS or PERMS? How much money is there for transfers? Where are we with FFP?

3, If it is loans, where will they come from? Do we have a secret handshake with Frank that we will get first dibs on Chelsea loans? What about his connections with the Everton DOF, will we get those? How about his past with PSV and Barca, any joy there?

4, So will we go BRITISH or FOREIGN? We have leaned so heavily on British players under Clement/Rowett/Frank, do we have a man now with better knowledge of European/foreign players?

5, Is he going to STICK or TWIST? Maybe he thinks we have enough already? He may have an agreement with Mel that he is going to fast track academy players - Although I’m less inclined to believe that he won’t bring in some new bodies

So, all we really know is that we don’t really know, even the ITKers on the site seem to have dried up (No disrespect intended, I’m the first to love a good bit of ITK)

I think, therefore, this is going to be the first summer of genuine surprises, names that we’ve never potentially heard of, maybe shock players leaving to raise funds (Marriott? Bogle?)

It could be fun, head scratching, exciting or even confusing, when our only signing this summer is the PSV 2nd reserve keeper!

We better strap in and enjoy (or not) the ride ?

[i-Ram]

Total guess on my part. There will be 5 new incoming, 3 of which will be loans. 2 will be foreign players. All of those coming in will be acquired for first team action (not squad fillers).  A few favourites will leave; wouldn’t be surprised to see a minimum of another 7 go.