DRBee Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 18 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said: You're missing the point Roy. The circumstances you inherit dictate how quickly 'success' can be achieved - McClaren benefited from that. 6-9 months isn't a fair time frame in which to judge a rebuild job. That is what Lampard has - McClaren did not. But you underplay MacClaren's achievements here, as though success was ready made. He added key players to the squad and had a tactical nous that far exceeded that of the too cautious Clough. Like Lampard this season, MacClaren was unlucky with injuries in his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Chester40 said: ... dancing around edge of top 6... I think we're more "Standing nervously overlooking the dancefloor, waiting for the slow records to come on, whilst trying to pluck up the courage to ask that fit bint in the tight silver dress for the last dance"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 4 hours ago, KCG said: There are certain managers who seem to have the knack of being able to get promotion to the Premiership. Delia seems to have the knack of finding the right managers to get Norwich regularly promoted. Usually those managers have found was of getting rather mediocre teams promoted. We have been rather mediocre in finding the right manager and regularly say year-on-year "we need a few seasons to rebuild". Sigh! This is an interesting angle - 3 of the 5 managers we have had in recent times - Mac, Rowett and Lamps have all had the "knack" of producing consistent play off contenders. ( I don't buy in to Clement as consistent in this league despite a high point ) The manager IS important because maybe that is the difference between play off and promotion. But how can we honestly ever know when no manager in recent times has had the full deck of cards to build what he wants ? - its for ever a series of compromises and crucially extreme time pressure. In short you need some or any of the following: A pile of money Dark art, ( definition available on request - I can blag this if needed ) Time, Good luck. Team spirit / man management the manager has a part to play in less than 50% of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Harry Storer said the secret of being a good manager is to sign good players. the problems we've had in that regard are well documented. frank has been a bit average in terms of permanent recruitment and going forward its not going to be that easy to build a promotion winning squad with bugger all money, picking up freebies and wannabies as they happen to become available. It took NC four or five years. I'm not sure frank can wait that long. I'm not sure fans can wait that long. But at least we're starting from a slightly better position than the dross paul jewell left behind and we have one or two half decent sprogs. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 hours ago, KCG said: There are certain managers who seem to have the knack of being able to get promotion to the Premiership. Yes, how did banker do it with Cardiff? Was it the only way he knew to play or did he cut his cloth to suit the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes, how did banker do it with Cardiff? Was it the only way he knew to play or did he cut his cloth to suit the Championship? Didn’t Warnock apply for the job when we gave it Pearson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 hours ago, KCG said: There are certain managers who seem to have the knack of being able to get promotion to the Premiership. Delia seems to have the knack of finding the right managers to get Norwich regularly promoted. Usually those managers have found was of getting rather mediocre teams promoted. We have been rather mediocre in finding the right manager and regularly say year-on-year "we need a few seasons to rebuild". Sigh! Oh for sure. For those who remember, Jim Smith's appointment wasn't greeted with much enthusiasm from the fan base but his time at DCFC is fondly remembered by most supporters. Billy Davis came in and did the job he was brought in (and expected) to do. He turned a bit bonkers after achieving promotion, and is now reviled by a lot of Rams fans. Seems Mel hasn't the knack of getting the right man for the club (so far). Maybe he should read a couple of Delia's recipe books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, coneheadjohn said: Didn’t Warnock apply for the job when we gave it Pearson? No wonder we gave it to Pearson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 45 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said: Didn’t Warnock apply for the job when we gave it Pearson? I believe so. Despite his outburst last year he's always spoke fondly of Derby . Apparently, he used to watch us a lot when he was starting at Burton. He thinks of us as a proper football club due to the continued turnout we got in the early eighties when we feel of our perch somewhat and always like's to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyD Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Until Derby appoint a manager familiar with getting out of the championship or lower leagues we will not be successful Lampard is a good man and his attitude is laudable but he has shown that his tactics and football style are inappropriate for the task in hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 57 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: I believe so. Despite his outburst last year he's always spoke fondly of Derby . Apparently, he used to watch us a lot when he was starting at Burton. He thinks of us as a proper football club due to the continued turnout we got in the early eighties when we feel of our perch somewhat and always like's to come here. Yeah. he also spoke really well of us when it snowed last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: I believe so. Despite his outburst last year he's always spoke fondly of Derby . Apparently, he used to watch us a lot when he was starting at Burton. He thinks of us as a proper football club due to the continued turnout we got in the early eighties when we feel of our perch somewhat and always like's to come here. Yeah. he also spoke really well of us when it snowed last year. As highlighted. He was on Radio Derby breakfast show the day after and was good fun . He just plays a good game, we all had a bit of fun with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 19 hours ago, jono said: This is an interesting angle - 3 of the 5 managers we have had in recent times - Mac, Rowett and Lamps have all had the "knack" of producing consistent play off contenders. ( I don't buy in to Clement as consistent in this league despite a high point ) The manager IS important because maybe that is the difference between play off and promotion. But how can we honestly ever know when no manager in recent times has had the full deck of cards to build what he wants ? - its for ever a series of compromises and crucially extreme time pressure. In short you need some or any of the following: A pile of money Dark art, ( definition available on request - I can blag this if needed ) Time, Good luck. Team spirit / man management the manager has a part to play in less than 50% of those If you look at the managers who have been successful in getting teams into the Premier, on a number of occasions, then I'd argue they were the one's responsible for the promotion and your list had very little bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 5 hours ago, KCG said: If you look at the managers who have been successful in getting teams into the Premier, on a number of occasions, then I'd argue they were the one's responsible for the promotion and your list had very little bearing. That’s a bit black and white. If you think about it there are two types of team who go up ( gutsy, tough, disciplined AKA Warnock type teams or flair teams like Wolves or The ones I remember particularly - Fulham way back when they had Louis Saha. both have team spirit built in to them and the manager plays a huge part in that. It’s on my list. The dark art of tactics and picking the right team at the right time for the right opposition counts big as well and is relevant to a successful promotion grade manager. This is also on my list (with tongue slightly in cheek) The rest .. yep you’re right, not attributable. So to answer the OP the manager is important but by no means the only factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 19 hours ago, BobbyD said: Until Derby appoint a manager familiar with getting out of the championship or lower leagues we will not be successful Lampard is a good man and his attitude is laudable but he has shown that his tactics and football style are inappropriate for the task in hand Please... What utter drivel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Never known of a succesful team with a bad manager. Irrespective of how good a team of players may be,they require leadership ,guidance ,encouraging,discipline,and direction. You could arguably have the world's best players in your team but without some one to organise them ,nurture and direct them they are unlikely to attain their potential. Of course most managers have the knowledge,but being able to motivate, assert discipline, be tactically astute, able to manage ,organise and prepare for unforseen circumstance aren't easily learnt from a training course or book.I Look what has happened to Ipswich since Mick left? Not suggesting he is a great manager,but far superior than his successors. Where would Newcaste be without Benitez? How much more improved have city become . Look how United capitulated when fergie left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Last contribution is a tad more sensible them some opinions expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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