G STAR RAM Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Do you see a correlation between said high-earners receiving additional tax breaks and there being insufficient funding for those who have nothing then? Do you mean the said high earners that pay 40% tax compared to low earners who pay 0% tax? The state pension for instance - some will have to work until they are 75 under new proposals. Is it fair that an unskilled worker who works for 55 years and barely scrapes by in anyof them, then receives a paltry £90 a week to help them survive through what's left of their retirement? No that is not fair. I dont believe its morally right to move the state pension age. Do you think it is fair that the founder of Amazon is the world's first trillionaire while the bulk of his employees barely receive minimum wage and have to ask permission to leave packing lines for toilet breaks. Amazon employees work there by choice. Also if Amazon are so morally bankrupt why do people continue to use them? I'm guessing it's not the high earners that keep them in business? Have you ever used them? Do you even acknowledge that wealth distribution divides grow greater by the day and that some of those hurting worst as a consequence, are also those most in need? Yes, I acknowledge this may be true. Once again I assume you boycott all of the companies with high earners? Where you are concerned, I do sometimes wonder just what is it that you actually do believe in, because other than an unrelenting resentment towards certain elements of our society, it's very hard to fathom any of your thought processes. Certainly you seem embittered and let down but you typically express that in terms of how others are not, rather than your own personal experiences. Dont think that's true. Just fed up of a society always looking for someone to blame for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, i-Ram said: I don’t think any abstract construct is killing me, but the monthly mortgage repayment on that new £8m pad I bought in a London surely will. Your trying too hard to be funny mate. Some people are genuinely struggling. I'm glad your ok but not every poor person is worthy of ridicule and some of us do really care about the sort of world our grandkids will inherit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I give up! The most facetious turd of a post I've read in years. The irony of the last line is quite unbelievable. You're right though. The lunatic, Marxist left are all about playing the blame game and none of us practice what we preach. Happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 If I was sat in a pub now, I would challenge anyone to support Donald Trumps decision to be mardy because Denmark thought his idea to buy Greenland was absurd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Your trying too hard to be funny mate. Some people are genuinely struggling. I'm glad your ok but not every poor person is worthy of ridicule and some of us do really care about the sort of world our grandkids will inherit. Unfortunately there are a lot out there who dont even care what sort of lives their kids have, nevermind their grandkids. A major problem in today's society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: I give up! The most facetious turd of a post I've read in years. The irony of the last line is quite unbelievable. You're right though. The lunatic, Marxist left are all about playing the blame game and none of us practice what we preach. Happy now? So I take it you do use Amazon then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: So I take it you do use Amazon then. No I bloody don't. Is that not sublimely obvious or are are you just trying to get a rise out of me? Don't bther replying old boy. You just spend the rest of your existence focusing on a few chancers and ignoring the pain of millions of your fellow citizens. I'm sure the remainder of your life will be one endless ray of sunshine as you look enviously at your well-to-do Asian neighbours. I'll pop you on ignore anyway as I've listened to as many of your 'opinions' as I can stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Unfortunately there are a lot out there who dont even care what sort of lives their kids have, nevermind their grandkids. A major problem in today's society. You need to be careful mate. Thinking about future generations could be classed as Socialism, it could mean a level of community planning to organise society for the benefit of the many, not the few. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just as a (hopefully interesting) side note to the Amazon conversation going on my wife and I run our own business from home, we used to have a website but the amount of money you needed to invest in it to get noticed was astronomical so we now sell 100% through eBay and Amazon. Whilst Amazon is not perfect it does allow small independent companies such as our own to promote our goods and access the global market for a tiny fraction of the cost it would do otherwise. As we sell a lot through Amazon now, we ship everything to one of their warehouses, they store it, pack it and post it out via Amazon Prime which has enabled us to do a lot more business than we ever could have working out of our garage - and whilst I doubt Amazon pay any tax on our profits we certainly do. In short, support independent sellers on Amazon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, maxjam said: Just as a (hopefully interesting) side note to the Amazon conversation going on my wife and I run our own business from home, we used to have a website but the amount of money you needed to invest in it to get noticed was astronomical so we now sell 100% through eBay and Amazon. Whilst Amazon is not perfect it does allow small independent companies such as our own to promote our goods and access the global market for a tiny fraction of the cost it would do otherwise. As we sell a lot through Amazon now, we ship everything to one of their warehouses, they store it, pack it and post it out via Amazon Prime which has enabled us to do a lot more business than we ever could have working out of our garage - and whilst I doubt Amazon pay any tax on our profits we certainly do. In short, support independent sellers on Amazon! Always knew you were one of the oppressors, the dark ruling elite if you will. Hang your head in shame! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: If I was sat in a pub now, I would challenge anyone to support Donald Trumps decision to be mardy because Denmark thought his idea to buy Greenland was absurd? But Prime Minister Frederiksen was 'nasty'. How dare she consider his description of Greenland as 'real estate' absurd? It seems a perfectly reasonable response to cancel a state visit to a friendly nation because someone hurt his feelings. In other news Jews who are thinking of voting for a Democrat in the next election are now disloyal. Bad news for Bernie Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, maxjam said: Just as a (hopefully interesting) side note to the Amazon conversation going on my wife and I run our own business from home, we used to have a website but the amount of money you needed to invest in it to get noticed was astronomical so we now sell 100% through eBay and Amazon. Whilst Amazon is not perfect it does allow small independent companies such as our own to promote our goods and access the global market for a tiny fraction of the cost it would do otherwise. As we sell a lot through Amazon now, we ship everything to one of their warehouses, they store it, pack it and post it out via Amazon Prime which has enabled us to do a lot more business than we ever could have working out of our garage - and whilst I doubt Amazon pay any tax on our profits we certainly do. In short, support independent sellers on Amazon! Fully agree that we should all support independent traders. It's the Amazon bit I've no time for. Same reason I won't buy a coffee from Starbucks. Any company that avoids paying it's fair and appropriate tax on their profits, while not being illegal, is morally broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: A good and fair post right up to the last sentence which seems a rather bitter notion. Perhaps the 'green with envy brigade' you choose to demean are actually nothing of the sort. Indeed perhaps most belong to the 'squeezed middle' too or do you suppose that the likes of myself have never had to struggle, never shared any of the discomfort you describe?What gives you the right to make such assumptions just because you find your life less than you would have it be? Like so many, you assume too much about those whose opinions you do not share and I'd wager that many of those you have chosen to deride are simply not so broken that they don't recognise that irrespective of their own personal circumstances, good, bad and everything in between, that there remain many who are far, far worse off. I have shared some of your experiences and I fully comprehend your troubles but the difference is that my ire is not directed at those who point out the obvious imbalances, but at the government who bring about those imbalances in the first place. Perhaps yours should be too? The 'squeezed middle' is a great phrase. According to the report below, the median salary in 2017 was 28.6k. It's 36k in London, where everyone is mega rich and there is definitely no poverty. I think life would be much sweeter in Midlands if you were earning 29k than 36k in London. The actual 'squeezed middle' won't benefit from Johnson's drop in high rate of tax. The Tory party members would benefit though, which is why he mentioned it first and was rightly lambasted. In a panic, his team then told him to start promising everything to everyone. None of it costed of course. Just the usual stream of waffle he will deny/ignore later. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2017provisionaland2016revisedresults#main-points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 hours ago, SillyBilly said: This. I run a small business and it is by far the hardest job I have ever done. Hands down, no contest. And I've had some high profile gigs so I know stress very well unfortunately. I work 6 days a week (sometimes 7), don't sleep and never switch off, ever. I took my first holiday in 3 years this year and that was self-prescribed for the company's benefit given I was becoming of little use to it while constantly wired. And I was ill for the first time in a decade for the whole duration of it which I am convinced was a cortisol crash or something to that effect. I'd certainly not being putting myself through this to earn an average wage. Even when I first moved down to the SE years ago, and consequently began earning a SE salary (which doesn;t pay a lifestyle, that I can tell you), pay rises weren't much to celebrate once the gov took their share: 12% National Insurance, 9% student loan, 40% income tax and a small personal pension contribution to boot. Suddently one becomes quite interested in economics when you're taking home c. £3.50 for every extra £10.00 earned. And BJ gets lambasted by the green with envy brigade at the suggestion of a tax cut that ultimately gives something back to the squeezed middle... This is a pretty sad story and I hope you don't make yourself ill any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: That it's inevitable but that this country will be one of the last in Western Europe to roll it out, it will be a hideously inadequate allowance when they do, poverty and feelings of hopelessness and injustice will result in steep rises in crime and half the country will still blame the poor. *sorry to butt in! Can you not even be positive about basic income ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Uptherams said: Can you not even be positive about basic income ? Sorry mate. It's a fab idea that I'm sure we will fully embrace and good old Blighty will be a shining beacon in the move from capitalism to a fairer and more sustainable future. Everyone will be happy and nobody will moan that folk are getting something for nothing. It's going to be a golden age to be sure. Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Sorry mate. It's a fab idea that I'm sure we will fully embrace and good old Blighty will be a shining beacon in the move from capitalism to a fairer and more sustainable future. Everyone will be happy and nobody will moan that folk are getting something for nothing. It's going to be a golden age to be sure. Better? Basic income isn't a move away from capitalism. It supplements issues with capitalism and is intended to replace the current welfare system. Cheer up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Sorry that you seem to be working yourself into an early grave for a life you don't appear (from your description) to be enjoying. That in itself probably tells us where society is at. And also - you're description of the tax system neglects to mention that it's £3.50 for every £10 earned over £50k - is £50k not enough to live on comfortably?? 2 years ago I was earning enough through overtime and overwork to start paying 40% tax and it made me miserable and ill. I'm much happier since I stopped doing that and got my life back. I didn't really need that extra money - it just felt like I should be earning as much as possible because of societal pressure. I learned a hard lesson - money is not what brings happiness. I guess some people never work that out When I first moved down South I was on £53k, it doesn't buy you much of a life in London as a single man. It genuinely doesn't and this is what frustrates me, people need to live on the other side of the curtain (or a high cost of living area in this case) and try it before they comment. There is a boat load of stress and pressure to earn it, that is a constant though. Reality is you are either heavily subsidised, squeezed middle or stinking rich in London. That tax cut would have helped that squeezed middle group. I was far better off earning £30k in the Midlands. Granted if you want to sleep in a HMO you may save some dollar but when you're holding down a very responsible job student living isn't actually that appealing. You won't have a hope in hell of ever buying either, your after tax income is swallowed in rent. I moved out after 3 years, as many do. The final paragraph is right but we all have different priorities. People make choices. I would like to think I will be finished work 25 years before retirement age. But I reckon I will have worked as many hours by that point as people who will go the full distance. I choose to do it differently and am okay with the arrangement overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Interesting article here on far right violence by Owen Jones. Think it sums up recent debates on here pretty well. Would be interested if anyone can point out any obvious bias/factually incorrect information. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/22/far-right-violence-on-rise-where-is-outrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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