The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

35 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So Corbyn is a fence sitter who who is playing politics with the future of the UK or did have a position that has now crumbled?

Maybe there is another possibility. That the people who vote Labour are spilt between Leave and Remain and a no deal Brexit will screw both of them over as few of them are disaster capitalists?

Just out of interest, was you as sympathetic with Theresa May who was effectively compromising her own principles and trying to unite a split electorate?

At least with May she nailed her colours to the mast even if she failed to effectively follow through with what she promised.

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'd encourage you to find out the video of Corbyn talking about the EU referendums in Ireland and Denmark.

I think he actually referred to the EU as a 'Frankenstein monster' or something along them lines. Made reference to the votes being re-run until the EU got the result they wanted.

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

His change in stance is nothing other than an attempt to get into Number 10 through the back door.

No big surprise that Corbyn would be critical of the EU project in terms of it's execution and control of power - I don't know many remainers who are deluded enough to believe that the EU institution itself is perfect. But then the pragmatic centrist view is that despite it's flaws, it brings so many positives that it's a total baby/bathwater situation. The sensible approach is to either remain and reform or leave in a sensible managed manner via  controlled method that allows for the minimum amount of impact to the man in the street

That's a tricky line to tread, and one that Corbyn has endeavoured to follow. Despite the fact that it doesn't adhere to the polarised LEAVE! REMAIN! shouting match that the loudest beetroot-faced plebs are being encouraged (by the media) to pursue

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

33 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

At least with May she nailed her colours to the mast even if she failed to effectively follow through with what she promised.

Damn Corbyn for not negotiating his own deal! What was he messing at?

[SSD]

As a liberal, I feel so torn by Brexit and how it has affected our democracy. We seemed to live a world where everything must be told and examined in black and white. It's been wrongly portrayed by the media and politicians, you either want Brexit or you don't. Life is more complex than a simple yes or no, and I feel our political figures and many members of the public have failed to understand the concept of listening and cooperation. It's either my opinion or you're simply wrong. Since when in history has "my way or the highway" ever been successful in the long term?

I feel like we're going backwards not forwards in terms of sharing views but then having the ability to understand other people's opinions. I feel the politicians on the left have let the country down just as much as the Tories have been failing to deliver Brexit. Not once has Corbyn tried to reach out Labour voters who voted to leave the EU, not necessarily to agree on their views, but at least to listen and absorb the feedback of his traditional audience. If he at least acknowledged people's concerns about the EU, he would have enough support by the public for him to win a general election, in my opinion. Maybe the possibility of reviewing our membership, staying in the EU, but looking at possible changes to our relationship with our neighbours, I don't see any harm in pursuing such an option. Seems better than to flush away years of diplomacy and relationships down the toilet. Anyone who follows politics knows Corbyn is not a big fan of the EU, hence why he couldn't commit to stating he wanted to stay in EU for a long time. It's absolutely fine to change an opinion on anything, however the move seemed politically motivated, just as Johnson decided to go from a supporter to a leaver for his own political popularity. Both sides of the house have been a complete disgrace and if people want to play the blame game, the MP's are the first in line. 

Many members of the public have been personally insulting strangers online, all because of their political opinions and beliefs. How can we be so shallow and not try to understand how people feel on issues. The media have added fuel to fire, even the more respected outfits like the BBC, promoting this black and white culture. We need to do the right thing as a democratic country, stop the insults, give the government a chance to carry out the democratic vote. If they can't succeed, throw it out back to the people and start the voting process again. Simplicity on a deeply divided issue.

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

But the fault of broken society falls at the doorstep of Conservatives and Labour.

One of the main reasons people see society as broken is due to the state of the welfare system.

Both parties have been guilty of being 'too soft and allowing people to exploit the system.

I find the suggestion that the Tories have been 'too soft and (are) allowing people to exploit the system' a pretty abhorrent suggestion to be honest. When quadriplegics are being stripped of their benefits and declared fit for work, it beggars belief that folk like yourself would rather focus on those you feel might be getting one over on the state.

Homelessness figures are are sky-rocketing and over 14 million UK citizens are now living below the poverty line. Even those who lose their jobs, mostly through no fault of their own, are left facing a 5 week wait for money and that assumes their universal credit claims are even upheld. The rolling out of UC has critically affected the unemployed and those on low incomes to the point where between 1 April 2018 and 31 March 2019, the Trussell Trust’s food bank network distributed 1.6 million three-day emergency food supplies to people in crisis, a 19% increase on the previous year. More than half a million of these went to children.  If you seriously believe that this is all down to the abuse of the welfare state then I'm astounded.

While I agree that one reason folk see society as broken is the state of the welfare system, for me, it's for completely the opposite reason to that which you put forward.  East and West I'm afraid.

*And yes, I know, another 'entirely predictable post', but a factual one nonetheless ?

 

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

Not once has Corbyn tried to reach out Labour voters who voted to leave the EU, not necessarily to agree on their views, but at least to listen and absorb the feedback of his traditional audience. If he at least acknowledged people's concerns about the EU, he would have enough support by the public for him to win a general election, in my opinion.

I think his strategy is not to reach out and discuss Brexit - as he correctly points out that the Leave vote was a symptom not a root cause. He continues to try and target the underlying factors

https://labour.org.uk/latest/stories/labour-demands-brexit-public-vote/

Quote

I want to make it clear that Labour would campaign for Remain against either No Deal or a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs. 

Labour has a crucial, historic duty to safeguard jobs, rights and living standards. But no Brexit outcome alone can do that. 

We need a general election. After nine years of austerity, too many people in this country cannot find decent secure well-paid work and have to rely on public services that have been severely cut back. 

Our country is ravaged by inequality and rising poverty, huge regional imbalances of investment, and the government is failing to tackle the climate emergency facing us all. 

Is that not fair enough?

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I find the suggestion that the Tories have been 'too soft and (are) allowing people to exploit the system' a pretty abhorrent suggestion to be honest. When quadriplegics are being stripped of their benefits and declared fit for work, it beggars belief that folk like yourself would rather focus on those you feel might be getting one over on the state.

Homelessness figures are are sky-rocketing and over 14 million UK citizens are now living below the poverty line. Even those who lose their jobs, mostly through no fault of their own, are left facing a 5 week wait for money and that assumes their universal credit claims are even upheld. The rolling out of UC has critically affected the unemployed and those on low incomes to the point where between 1 April 2018 and 31 March 2019, the Trussell Trust’s food bank network distributed 1.6 million three-day emergency food supplies to people in crisis, a 19% increase on the previous year. More than half a million of these went to children.  If you seriously believe that this is all down to the abuse of the welfare state then I'm astounded.

While I agree that one reason folk see society as broken is the state of the welfare system, for me, it's for completely the opposite reason to that which you put forward.  East and West I'm afraid.

*And yes, I know, another 'entirely predictable post', but a factual one nonetheless ?

 

Dont see is as an entirely predictable post at all.

Dont also see it as completely factual.

You've probably used facts from a snapshot of the last 5 to 10 years.

I think the welfare system has been exploited for 20 to 25 years and inevitably now SOME innocent people are suffering due to years of people exploiting the system.

I dont see it as any coincidence that the youth of today have no respect for the establishment.

[SSD]

24 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I think his strategy is not to reach out and discuss Brexit - as he correctly points out that the Leave vote was a symptom not a root cause. He continues to try and target the underlying factors

https://labour.org.uk/latest/stories/labour-demands-brexit-public-vote/

Is that not fair enough?

I agree, the statement they've put on their website is more encouraging and I would 100% support this if Boris and co cannot get their version of Brexit delivered. Labour are more democratic and always will, it's Corbyn's political motivations I find uneasy. I'll take what he says at face value as Labour are the only party to promote a sensible alternative.  

[GboroRam]

43 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Dont see is as an entirely predictable post at all.

Dont also see it as completely factual.

You've probably used facts from a snapshot of the last 5 to 10 years.

I think the welfare system has been exploited for 20 to 25 years and inevitably now SOME innocent people are suffering due to years of people exploiting the system.

I dont see it as any coincidence that the youth of today have no respect for the establishment.

I saw there was a property in London for sale for £8m earlier today. 

Yet there's more discussion around the abuse of benefits than realisation we're fighting over crumbs from the table. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

I saw there was a property in London for sale for £8m earlier today. 

Yet there's more discussion around the abuse of benefits than realisation we're fighting over crumbs from the table. 

I see absolutely no correlation between the price of a property in London and people abusing the welfare system.

[GboroRam]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I see absolutely no correlation between the price of a property in London and people abusing the welfare system.

You don't see any issue with the distribution of wealth? 

[GboroRam]

And what kind of cognitive dissonance does it take to wear your poppy while proudly displaying your swastika? 

[ariotofmyown]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just out of interest, was you as sympathetic with Theresa May who was effectively compromising her own principles and trying to unite a split electorate?

At least with May she nailed her colours to the mast even if she failed to effectively follow through with what she promised.

I was sympathetic with May's position. I posted as much last night. She was left in an impossible position by one incompetent old etonian and then screwed over by another.

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You don't see any issue with the distribution of wealth? 

Do you have trouble reading what I write?

[ariotofmyown]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont need the media to say anything about the lay about, blame culture society that the welfare system has helped create, I live amongst it.

Believe it or not some people do form a view of society from their own personal experience rather than what is in the media.

Fair enough. I've seen very little of it so assume it's always exaggerated. Main thing I see is tax dodging/avoidance.

I worry when we have leaders who have literally no experience or comprehension of poverty or struggling to get by.

[Spanish]

15 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I was sympathetic with May's position. I posted as much last night. She was left in an impossible position by one incompetent old etonian and then screwed over by another.

called an election which cost her

put David Davies in charge of negotiations then apparently conducted no executive oversight until it was far too late

hardly blameless

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Fair enough. I've seen very little of it so assume it's always exaggerated. Main thing I see is tax dodging/avoidance.

I worry when we have leaders who have literally no experience or comprehension of poverty or struggling to get by.

On a day to day basis where do you come across tax dodging/avoidance?

[Norman]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

On a day to day basis where do you come across tax dodging/avoidance?

Considering 40 percent of people in work in this country don't pay tax, i would suggest he knows and lives in a very middle class area full of tax evasion?

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do you have trouble reading what I write?

If you honestly believe that, the emphasis is on you to explain better. 

[G STAR RAM]

36 minutes ago, Norman said:

Considering 40 percent of people in work in this country don't pay tax, i would suggest he knows and lives in a very middle class area full of tax evasion?

To be fair, it was not meant as an attack on @ariotofmyown, I have no idea of his/her personal circumstances, nor their exposure to instances of tax dodging/evasion. It was a question which I genuinely wondered what the answer was.