Curtains Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, McLovin said: We need to be looking to replace Keogh soon regardless because he’s getting old (33this year) and his game will decline more the next few years. We need a couple of young centre backs to allow them to settle in in the mean time. Best to keep quiet about this as you can’t win mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Curtains said: Best to keep quiet about this as you can’t win mate. I don’t see why people would disagree tbh, most players only get worse as they get into their 30s. He relies quite a lot on his speed to get him out of trouble which he will only lose more and more. The decline maybe gradual or it maybe rapid like with Nugent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, McLovin said: I don’t see why people would disagree tbh, most players only get worse as they get into their 30s. He relies quite a lot on his speed to get him out of trouble which he will only lose more and more. The decline maybe gradual or it maybe rapid like with Nugent. Mate you can have no opinion on Keogh without getting backlash on here. Look at the title of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Curtains said: Mate you can have no opinion on Keogh without getting backlash on here. Look at the title of the thread. No. There's a distinct difference between blaming Keogh for everything, and recognising we need to sign new CBs (either due to age, being injured, leaving in the summer, or any combination of the above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Curtains said: Mate you can have no opinion on Keogh without getting backlash on here. Look at the title of the thread. You're right pal. Anyone suggesting he's a half decent player is likely to get all kinds of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Best to keep quiet about this as you can’t win mate. 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Mate you can have no opinion on Keogh without getting backlash on here. Look at the title of the thread. How is others disagreeing with your opinion stopping you giving your opinion. Like I said to @Lokidoki. Nobody is censoring you. It's people who think Keogh works well in the team giving their opinion. Maybe you're censoring us. The last thread was called "Keogh: always got a mistake in him". Look at that thread title. We can't praise him without a backlash on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidoki Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 21 hours ago, KCG said: Absolutely true, there's a lot on here who need to remember that, especially as fans tend to wear blinkers when it comes to their team. Us Derby fans are just as guilty of it. Do you think your opinion is fact? As more than Lokidoki are making that mistake? In fact those arguing against criticism of Keogh are being more and more hysterical in their arguments. Many are bordering on complete idiocy! I have had some down-time from this thread as I wanted to take stock of what folks were actually saying especially when it comes down to statistics and facts. The problem is that pass ratios and a lot of the other statistics are not a true reflection of what really is going on on-the-pitch. A good summary of what I mean by this is the @RamNut comments yesterday. This piece simply catalogues the errors made by RK this season. Unfortunately without accessing all of the archives of previous seasons, this type of evidence gathering is impossible; therefore what I have said can appear largely anecdotal; in other words I cannot be assed to go through all the match reports for a good few years, just to prove a point; as my ego does not get burnished by this kind of I'm right/you're wrong dogfighting. I still stand by my (uncorroborated) statement that if you count all of the errors made by RK over the games played and each season convert these into points dropped, (or in some cases; play-offs lost) it would prove to be the difference between achieving and failing promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: I have had some down-time from this thread as I wanted to take stock of what folks were actually saying especially when it comes down to statistics and facts. The problem is that pass ratios and a lot of the other statistics are not a true reflection of what really is going on on-the-pitch. A good summary of what I mean by this is the @RamNut comments yesterday. This piece simply catalogues the errors made by RK this season. Unfortunately without accessing all of the archives of previous seasons, this type of evidence gathering is impossible; therefore what I have said can appear largely anecdotal; in other words I cannot be assed to go through all the match reports for a good few years, just to prove a point; as my ego does not get burnished by this kind of I'm right/you're wrong dogfighting. I still stand by my (uncorroborated) statement that if you count all of the errors made by RK over the games played and each season convert these into points dropped, (or in some cases; play-offs lost) it would prove to be the difference between achieving and failing promotion. I wasn't listing stats. Just highlighting that although keogh has a reputation for errors, those obvious (and often televised) errors have very rarely resulted in goals conceded. I suppose i was in a way responding to ed dawes comment after the goal v bristol city, when he said the goal was due to a keogh error and "how many times have we heard that" (quote). Answer - actually that is the only occasion when an obvious error resulted in a goal this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, RamNut said: I wasn't listing stats. Just highlighting that although keogh has a reputation for errors, those obvious (and often televised) errors have very rarely resulted in goals conceded. I suppose i was in a way responding to ed dawes comment after the goal v bristol city, when he said the goal was due to a keogh error and "how many times have we heard that" (quote). Answer - actually that is the only occasion when an obvious error resulted in a goal this season. Still think Tomori has to take part of the blame for that goal. Not goal side, slow to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Lokidoki said: I have had some down-time from this thread as I wanted to take stock of what folks were actually saying especially when it comes down to statistics and facts. The problem is that pass ratios and a lot of the other statistics are not a true reflection of what really is going on on-the-pitch. A good summary of what I mean by this is the @RamNut comments yesterday. This piece simply catalogues the errors made by RK this season. Unfortunately without accessing all of the archives of previous seasons, this type of evidence gathering is impossible; therefore what I have said can appear largely anecdotal; in other words I cannot be assed to go through all the match reports for a good few years, just to prove a point; as my ego does not get burnished by this kind of I'm right/you're wrong dogfighting. I still stand by my (uncorroborated) statement that if you count all of the errors made by RK over the games played and each season convert these into points dropped, (or in some cases; play-offs lost) it would prove to be the difference between achieving and failing promotion. I agree with the stats thing. A header won isn't necessarily a good header. A pass completed isn't necessarily a good pass etc etc And I don't blame you for not trawling the internet for Keogh errors. In fact if you did then I'd think you've definitely got an obsession and any debate is pointless. I'm glad you're a poster that's not arsed too much because that Xlor who threw a diva strop clearly misses the point of the forum. It's us sat around a huge pub table, beer in hand, putting the world right. Truth is, nobody gives a toss about our football opinion. The last paragraph I agree with to a certain extent. Yes, Keogh has made costly mistakes. He's made more than most of his defensive partners (But tbf he's played more) I imagine. Some of his mistakes are properly humiliating. Some are him being daft. Definitely he's played a big role in us dropping points. However, i'd argue that if Mac had played Buxton and Shotton/Whitbread that we wouldn't have had the pace in our play to pick up the points we did. I'd argue that if Clement had chosen Pearce and Shackell our slow passing would somehow have been worse. Same for any manager. He's always been in the top 2 CB's at the club no matter who we've had. And most managers we've had have needed him for his creativity and pace on the ball. Sounds off for a CB but that's what he's given us and helped us to win points at the other end. Whereas Shackell for example was a solid defender for the most part. But is he saving us points? Because for every excellent piece of defending there was a hoof back to the opponent. His passing didn't benefit the team. It often played into the opposition hands. Whether gifting them the ball or allowing them time to get in shape or press. That's how I see it as finding the balance. Keogh does more good than bad imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, RamNut said: I wasn't listing stats. Just highlighting that although keogh has a reputation for errors, those obvious (and often televised) errors have very rarely resulted in goals conceded. I suppose i was in a way responding to ed dawes comment after the goal v bristol city, when he said the goal was due to a keogh error and "how many times have we heard that" (quote). Answer - actually that is the only occasion when an obvious error resulted in a goal this season. So he wasn't at fault in any way for goals shipped against Leeds? Have his mistakes led to goals from the resulting passage of play? E.g. have we conceded from a corner or free kick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, KCG said: So he wasn't at fault in any way for goals shipped against Leeds? Have his mistakes led to goals from the resulting passage of play? E.g. have we conceded from a corner or free kick? Not for me. three of the four were due to max lowe. The first was outrageous. Lowe lost the ball on the edge of their box and ambled back. From memory the defence was out of position as a result. you could debate the roofe shot when he turned past keogh but for me that was great play by roofe. you could debate the last goal but again not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, Alpha said: And I don't blame you for not trawling the internet for Keogh errors. In fact if you did then I'd think you've definitely got an obsession and any debate is pointless. I'm glad you're a poster that's not arsed too much because that Xlor who threw a diva strop clearly misses the point of the forum. It's us sat around a huge pub table, beer in hand, putting the world right. Truth is, nobody gives a toss about our football opinion. Seems to me some take it a lot more seriously than that. We've had some idiots literally telling us we are not true Rams fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, RamNut said: Not for me. three of the four were due to max lowe. The first was outrageous. Lowe lost the ball on the edge of their box and ambled back. From memory the defence was out of position as a result. you could debate the roofe shot when he turned past keogh but for me that was great play by roofe. you could debate the last goal but again not for me. Wasn't one of them from a straight pass from Keogh to their striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, KCG said: Wasn't one of them from a straight pass from Keogh to their striker? Not as far as i recall.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 We all love Keogh but he isn’t infallible . Niether Is DCFCs defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, KCG said: Seems to me some take it a lot more seriously than that. We've had some idiots literally telling us we are not true Rams fans! Oh, well that's a bit of a daft thing to say. Should be nothin' but love here at the end of the day. The whole wrist slashers vs happy clappers thing has never been fair. We should all be both at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, Alpha said: Oh, well that's a bit of a daft thing to say. Should be nothin' but love here at the end of the day. The whole wrist slashers vs happy clappers thing has never been fair. We should all be both at times Keogh , Keogh. Love that chant lol PS We all love DCFC right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Alpha said: Oh, well that's a bit of a daft thing to say. Should be nothin' but love here at the end of the day. The whole wrist slashers vs happy clappers thing has never been fair. We should all be both at times It’s quite hard slashing your wrists whilst clapping your hands though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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