Matej Vydra - Signed for Burnley

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Under Pearson he was played lone striker. He was poor. Under Mac he went on the wing, he was poor. At Reading he was used as lone striker quite often, he was poor. The best spells of his career were at Watford, playing alongside Troy Deeney, and at Derby playing alongside another striker. It's pretty much statistically proven Vydra struggles to play upfront by himself.

I thought Pearson was playing him with James Wilson in an innovative little man -little man combo?

Anyway, your point totally sstands and Vydra needs a frontman to work with.

[May Contain Nuts]

49 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think it's more to do with the style of football being played. Ince doesn't have proper genuine pace or strength to pull away from defenders, so he's quite easy to crowd out, if you've got the spare men to do it.  So if he's in a team that's playing quite defensively, he's a bit ineffective as you can just double up on him (see him under Pearson and Clement here).  But in a team that's throwing players forward (McClaren and Wassall here), where there are other threats for the defence to deal with, he's much more effective.  The problem he has when he goes to the prem, is that he normally ends up at pretty low-level team (Hull, Palace, Huddersfield), who almost by definition are not throwing players forwards.

It's also no coincidence he performed at his best with Bent up there rather than Martin, Martin would drop deep drawing defenders into the middle, 25 yards out (the space most commonly utilised by Ince to get a shot away) whereas Bent's style of play kept defenders occupied a little closer to their own goal.

As for greed, I don't think it's possible to have more than twice as many shots as any of your teammates and not be described as greedy. Yeah sure, 14 goals is decent but not so much when you consider the 115 shots that failed to find the net in 2016/17 needed in order to achieve it.

For some useless, pointless stats that take very little into account - apply Vydra's (on topic, see!) shots to goals ratio last season to Ince in 2016/17 and you get 36 goals! Apply Ince's 2016/17 shots to goals ratio to the limited number of shots Andreas Weimann had last year and you only get 6, just one more than Weimann!

Agree with the other comments you and Will Hughes' Hair have made too.

 

 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I thought Pearson was playing him with James Wilson in an innovative little man -little man combo?

Anyway, your point totally sstands and Vydra needs a frontman to work with.

He's a striker that thrives on knock downs on the edge of the box. Vydra scored an abnormal amount of goals from that position last season. He's not a Marriott style poacher, he won't lead the line, theoretically he could press from the front but I have my doubts. I know people want to see Vydra do well, but we can't play him for the sake of it when it doesn't fit him.

[Birdyabroad]

I can’t help thinking that this Vydra thing is going to blow up in our faces, if it hasn’t done so already.

I can see two negative outcomes:

1, We keep him, for now, and our wage bill is obscene with not much chance of significant incomings from sales 

2, We sell him a week or two down the line for LESS than Leeds we’re offering, because the buying club can smell our desperation to offload 

I consider myself an optimistic person and actually rate Vydra (He’s a goal scorer after all), but can’t help thinking that his sale for a high fee is ESSENTIAL to our business / transfer model this summer 

[LazloW]

If selling Vydra is fundamental to our being able to meet FFP requirements then why are there still so many rumours going around about us buying folk when it now seems he isn’t going?

Three obvious answers I guess:

1.  The rumours are false (both in terms of our financial position and/or further signings);

2. Vydra is still going (with some certainty from the club)

3. Others are going soon (with some certainty from the club).

 I’m sure everything is going smooth and by the numbers  (name that film!) behind the scenes and there are contingencies aplenty for any eventuality.

[Waffle]

2 minutes ago, LazloW said:

If selling Vydra is fundamental to our being able to meet FFP requirements then why are there still so many rumours going around about us buying folk when it now seems he isn’t going?

Three obvious answers I guess:

1.  The rumours are false (both in terms of our financial position and/or further signings);

2. Vydra is still going (with some certainty from the club)

3. Others are going soon (with some certainty from the club).

 I’m sure everything is going smooth and by the numbers  (name that film!) behind the scenes and there are contingencies aplenty for any eventuality.

Mamma Mia, here we go again?

[Coneheadjohn]

11 minutes ago, LazloW said:

If selling Vydra is fundamental to our being able to meet FFP requirements then why are there still so many rumours going around about us buying folk when it now seems he isn’t going?

Three obvious answers I guess:

1.  The rumours are false (both in terms of our financial position and/or further signings);

2. Vydra is still going (with some certainty from the club)

3. Others are going soon (with some certainty from the club).

 I’m sure everything is going smooth and by the numbers  (name that film!) behind the scenes and there are contingencies aplenty for any eventuality.

Aliens?

And I remember how smooth it went for them in that movie.

[Will Hughes Hair]

We aren't in a position where we need to turn this into a fire sale, we can still sell in the January transfer window or at the end of the season (before 30 June).

Strikers are always in demand and I'd be looking at increasing the price as we move towards the window closing.  No deal is better than a bad deal where we effectively subsidise others success.

And as for whether Matej can play in a different role, the key variable everyone seems to be missing is that he is a confidence player.  It took snake boy to re-instill confidence into Vydra and I'm fairly sure this was at least equally important as change of role in getting him to perform.

 Maybe it's wishful thinking but I think Vydra's desperate for a seat next to me on the Frankie train ?

[DCFC27]

I reckon he could play one of the wide men roles this year, FL 4-3-3 is different to how we set up before as it’s more about hassling defenders moving the ball quickly which I think Vydra can do.

I think you may loose some width with him though as if he plays wide I doubt he’ll go down the outside, he’d be cutting inside a lot but if he does cut in or the ball drops for him in the box we know he can be lethal.

I’m not sure he can cut it up top on his own but I wouldn’t entirley rule it out due to the striker not needing to be a target man in the way Martin was in this formation, it is all about ball to feet and chasing down defenders. 

Last option he could play is the role Mount has taken up in midfield, mind he wouldn’t really be doing much defending more trying to get forward to aid the attacks. Couldn’t see us starting him here but could see us chasing a game and putting him as the advanced midfielder of the 3. 

I think the one this they all have in common is Vydra isn’t natural in any of this positions and keeping him is a gamble, especially becaus he hasn’t been able to feature during preseason. If he does stay he’s going to need to be adaptable play in our side rather than us playing around him. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, DcfcJB said:

I reckon he could play one of the wide men roles this year, FL 4-3-3 is different to how we set up before as it’s more about hassling defenders moving the ball quickly which I think Vydra can do.

I think you may loose some width with him though as if he plays wide I doubt he’ll go down the outside, he’d be cutting inside a lot but if he does cut in or the ball drops for him in the box we know he can be lethal.

I’m not sure he can cut it up top on his own but I wouldn’t entirley rule it out due to the striker not needing to be a target man in the way Martin was in this formation, it is all about ball to feet and chasing down defenders. 

Last option he could play is the role Mount has taken up in midfield, mind he wouldn’t really be doing much defending more trying to get forward to aid the attacks. Couldn’t see us starting him here but could see us chasing a game and putting him as the advanced midfielder of the 3. 

I think the one this they all have in common is Vydra isn’t natural in any of this positions and keeping him is a gamble, especially becaus he hasn’t been able to feature during preseason. If he does stay he’s going to need to be adaptable play in our side rather than us playing around him. 

He was rubbish on the wing for Mac.

He was rubbish up top for Pearson and at Reading.

Mount does a huge amount of pressing, running and has wonderful vision for a pass. Vydra hasn't got this. Dropping Mount for Vydra would be possibly the most baffling and stupid move a manager could ever do. And I remember Clough playing Dean Moxey up front.

[superzak]

Vydra is wanting to play for a premiership side...maybe he is hoping that it is Derby next season and wants to stay and fire us to the promise land.

[DCFC27]

35 minutes ago, Andicis said:

He was rubbish on the wing for Mac.

He was rubbish up top for Pearson and at Reading.

Mount does a huge amount of pressing, running and has wonderful vision for a pass. Vydra hasn't got this. Dropping Mount for Vydra would be possibly the most baffling and stupid move a manager could ever do. And I remember Clough playing Dean Moxey up front.

I don’t think I said play him there! Just there the only positions he could go and provided the pros and cons. Like I said in the post I wouldn’t drop mount for Vyds jut bring him on there if we are chasing a game. 

Before you quote something and berate I suggest you read it. 

[Norman]

I do know that he likes being at Derby.

One of very few players to have his own box. Costs him £9,000 a year.

Brings all his family over to watch games etc.

[May Contain Nuts]

51 minutes ago, Andicis said:

He was rubbish on the wing for Mac.

I'm not convinced he CAN play there, but our style of play under Mac II was far removed from his initial stint (up to Jan 2015 anyway) and I don't think you can fully use it as an example of how he'd fare under Lampard.

We've sort of touched on it in the side-story to the last few pages. Mac II (& Rowett's 1st 2 months) was all about getting the best out of Ince & Bent.

Our play wasn't spread out very well among the team, instead was focused down the right. It explains how despite not really offering anything of significance Christie ended up with the 3rd highest key passes stat, it basically translated as "passed it to Ince a lot, then Ince shot a lot"!  When Baird came into the team he outshone Christie defensively AND going forward - he played passes Cyrus could only dream of making (ie the one to Ince for the Forest goal) - it's those sort of passes that Wisdom is looking to make but not quite pulling off as successfully.

Oops, I got sidetracked again!

The point was that if you were playing on the left side of the attack under Mac II you were pretty much redundant, so I wouldn't use that spell as a stick to beat Vydra with, even if I also have major doubts about his ability to play there.

[Coneheadjohn]

56 minutes ago, Andicis said:

He was rubbish on the wing for Mac.

He was rubbish up top for Pearson and at Reading.

Mount does a huge amount of pressing, running and has wonderful vision for a pass. Vydra hasn't got this. Dropping Mount for Vydra would be possibly the most baffling and stupid move a manager could ever do. And I remember Clough playing Dean Moxey up front.

To be fair to Vyds the whole thing was very rubbish under Pearson.

[Carl Sagan]

23 hours ago, Carnero said:

I believe that @Carl Sagan, who's seems to have fairly decent contacts, said that Derby are quite relaxed over the Vydra situation and are under no pressure to sell - hence the not budging over the 11m fee - and that if he's sold the money can be spent on the team (Waghorn).

Cheers. Flimsy contacts, but occasionally I do get told stuff. And you're right I was told there was no pressure to sell Vydra, but also that we wouldn't be doing a lot of business unless he went. Though that was before Mount, Wilson, Josefzoon and Marriott came in! Perhaps that doesn't qualify as a lot of business?

[Harrowram]

He wasn't very successful at West brom when he went there on a seasons loan. Any manager would be taking a risk in relying on Vydra to score enough goals to keep his team up.

[Carnero]

12 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Though that was before Mount, Wilson, Josefzoon and Marriott came in!

You said it well after Mount, Wilson & Jozefzoon had signed!

[Andicis]

35 minutes ago, DcfcJB said:

I don’t think I said play him there! Just there the only positions he could go and provided the pros and cons. Like I said in the post I wouldn’t drop mount for Vyds jut bring him on there if we are chasing a game. 

Before you quote something and berate I suggest you read it. 

And I gave you reasons why your theories on positions Vydra can play are just that. People think because Vydra scored a few goals last season he can play anywhere, when the only reasons he scored the goals was because he was in a formation built around him. I read your post I can assure you. I just think you're extremely wrong.

[Animal is a Ram]

While its obvious the Leeds are below Derby line is urine-poor excuse, the way it has triggered Leeds fans is fine by me.