Repeal and Replace

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

3 hours ago, RamNut said:

But gary seems to like them.

He has consistantly picked both in preference to hughes / bryson.

The bigger issue V wolves was gary's total inability to react to the tactical problem.

We had these two plus big Tom in midfield but wolves just came down the flanks unimpeded..........

all game.

 

Exactly right neither JR or AW tracked back anywhere near enough yesterday and left both Wisdom and a 60-70% fit Fozzy exposed.

Wolves identified this very quickly and used the whole width of the pitch. 

For me JR was a passenger yesterday and almost looked resigned to the fact we are about to replace him with a much more talented, younger, faster, stronger version of himself. 

[Nuwtfly]

Great post @sage 

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, Alpha said:

It doesn't give me much hope when a manager does stuff like that, does it you?

I had huge faith in Nigel for a while. That 4231 with Kuqi? Nah, it wasn't good enough to get us to top 6 but it was a start. It suited the players. We just needed better players.

1 Luke Moore, few defeats later, a Connor Sammon and the chance to build is gone. 

Rowett still has a chance. But if he thinks buying Tom Lawrence is the answer then I'm worried. Cristiano Ronaldo wouldn't be enough while that midfield 3 continue to get boxed in the centre circle.

Ah Kuqi, no Luke Moore was he?!

What happened to Rowetts talk of ostracising the players who didn't fit his tight knit squad if they didn't get the 'you're not wanted' message?

[1967Ram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ah Kuqi, no Luke Moore was he?!

What happened to Rowetts talk of ostracising the players who didn't fit his tight knit squad if they didn't get the 'you're not wanted' message?

'Talk the talk' but not yet 'walk the walk'?

[NottsRam77]

Its a tougher job than the one jim smith had when he took over

those players had failed in the same way but could at least be remarketed as young untapped potential and the likes of short, pembridge, johnson and kitson all got moves away to bigger clubs.

im not sure we'll be able to market bradley johnson and the like as young untapped potential 

[Doodle]

5 hours ago, sage said:

Rather than condemn Rowett after watching yesterday's performance, perhaps we should instead appreciate the task ahead of him.

The squad doesn't need tweaking of freshening up, it needs a repair job not dissimilar to the one faced by NC.

Almost every outfield player purchased after NC and before GR has been more expensive and worse than the player they replaced. That is going to take a long time to sort out. More than one transfer window.

It would appear that we can only bring in one more senior player without selling or loaning players out. At this point note how our transfer section is full of threads about potential incomings, tales of linked players and thwarted bids. Notice there are no threads on potential outgoings. Because we are paying more in wages than the players are worth. No one wants them. 

I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad.

We looked 5 or 6 players short of a promotion team yesterday. Hopefully Forsyth's confidence and match fitness will improve and Thorne will get and stay fit. That would save us time and money.

The main things that worry me at the minute is that a) other than James we haven't been linked to another senior CM and we have massive issues there and b) as i have alluded to in another thread our managerial instability is hindering us in the loan market. 

We need to lose around 10 players and gain 6 and even if we manage to sell and buy well it's going to be a long and frustrating time until we get there. I hope we and Mel both appreciate the enormity of the task and have the patience to see it through.

 

It will take 2/3 more seasons before we will be competitive. No team will buy the players we don't want and as stated it's obviously a 1 out 1 in policy at best I would prefer a 2 out 1 in for a little while at least. Let those contracts run, if we recoup any money that will be a bonus then start again. I don't however and never have thought Rowett is any more than a stop gap manager. Keep him for these next few seasons, then get a good manager in when we are ready to move forward again. 

[Woodypecker]

Tom Hudds can't thrive and impose himself on games whilst the pedestrian, negative Butterfield and random, haphazard Johnson just crowd and confuse him.

It was incredibly disappointing to see the Rams still bereft of intelligence, precision, discipline and without the right complimentary skills & strengths.

Wolves ditched 24 players and recruited 22 during the summer, of course with a total regime change as well. 

They looked enterprising, quick, strong and threatening. I expected them to be talented but disjointed, but they were far too savvy for an underpowered, predictable Derby.

I expect (hope!) Rowett to jettison the serial failures in the team, he knows that gathering points and matching up against any opposition, to get in the running higher up the table ASAP, is an early season priority.

Other teams have been more successful in recruitment - and there is a good top ten or twelve that will jockey for the Championship spoils...we don't expect Derby to tear up the League, but what we saw on Saturday was mediocre, inadequate - too many familiar faces, costly flops and cosy passengers infect our squad.

That said, I do think things will change and that we will dispatch Preston on Tuesday!

 

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

It was incredibly disappointing to see the Rams still bereft of intelligence, precision, discipline and without the right complimentary skills & strengths.

Wolves ditched 24 players and recruited 22 during the summer, of course with a total regime change as well. 

Wow! How many of those were 'first teamers'? Makes you wonder whether we're not willing to take a hit or whether GR rates them after all?

[Woodypecker]

Wish we had targeted some of the players they recruited, (maybe we did....or do we need a more continental scouting outlook?) They ran rings around us during spells, and had 'extra gears' when needed!

Us? We had a slipping clutch, and the turbocharger is knackered!

GR is being fair to the players he has inherited. He is also seeing if they will adapt, change, heed instructions. 

August is a learning month, let's hope Gary has a few better pupils in his class by September 1st!

Enough of analogies, I need analgesic after Saturday!

[1of4]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

What happened to Rowetts talk of ostracising the players who didn't fit his tight knit squad if they didn't get the 'you're not wanted' message?

I don't think he can ostracise any player at the moment. For one reason or another Gary's overhaul of the squad doesn't seem to have gone how he would have liked. He as not got the players in that will suit how he wants the team to play and the players who are already here, that wont or can't adapt to suit that style of play, he as been unable to move on. Therefore he will have to keep all the players happy until changes can be made.

During the fans forum held at the end of last season, he said that the team he put out on the pitch for the first game of this season would be his team and which he would be happy with. I wonder if he stands by that statement.

[europia]

3 hours ago, Woodypecker said:

 

Wolves ditched 24 players and recruited 22 during the summer, of course with a total regime change as well. 

Probably what was needed at DCFC if we are honest about it ?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Who are these players we sold at knockdown prices?

I will ask you the same question I have already asked 3 posters, without response. Who are the comparables that show we have sold our players at low prices?

We can only compare what we've paid for players and what we've sold them for.

Personally I think we've done OK on Hughes and Ince.

P.S My post was tongue in cheek

 

[Woodypecker]

23 hours ago, europia said:

Probably what was needed at DCFC if we are honest about it ?

Yeh precisely, not enough squad 'churn' IMHO ever since that pathetic 0-3 home defeat vs. Reading at the end of t'other season, needing to clinch a play-offs place and failing miserably. 

Managers since then have fought shy of moving on established but average players, just collecting expensive misfits to compound the stagnation/disorganisation. The culture must change.

Perhaps this is the season in which team management imposes itself again; we seem to have had an ongoing situation where the team picks (or undermines) the manager in repeated fashion, and then coasts (descends...) to a safe Championship berth come May. 

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Woodypecker said:

Managers since then have fought shy of moving on established but average players

So what do we class Buxton, Ward, Dawkins, Eustace, Shotton, Grant, Warnock, Sammon, Albentosa as then? Unless you want us to replace the entire squad every few seasons, we've moved plenty of players on.  7 of the starters from that Reading game have gone, and 4 of the subs too.  The problem has been signing players seemingly at random, with no vision for how the whole thing should fit together.

[cheron85]

On 8/13/2017 at 08:52, sage said:

I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad.

I don't agree - The compact system worked horribly - In defence we were too compact and didn't cover their attacks down the wing properly - In attack the only joy we got was finding the space in behind their full backs/when the side of the back 3 went up a bit

Almost all of their attacks came down the side where we looked horribly exposed because we didn't have enough cover there - Our CMs were clinging to the middle of the pitch like it was covered in treacle

[Woodypecker]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

So what do we class Buxton, Ward, Dawkins, Eustace, Shotton, Grant, Warnock, Sammon, Albentosa as then? Unless you want us to replace the entire squad every few seasons, we've moved plenty of players on.  7 of the starters from that Reading game have gone, and 4 of the subs too.  The problem has been signing players seemingly at random, with no vision for how the whole thing should fit together.

I did say we have been collecting misfits.

Most of those moved on were ageing, some were peripheral / bench-warmers.

IMHO, some of the longest-serving have reached or passed their peak, and evidence (League position in May) shows they cannot keep the team in contention, or sustain the required level of consistency.

 

[Alph]

I'd say the longest serving are still the better players. 

The new ones aren't very good

[Woodypecker]

Better, maybe...but alas, still not good enough.

[BathRam72]

On 13/08/2017 at 08:52, sage said:

Rather than condemn Rowett after watching yesterday's performance, perhaps we should instead appreciate the task ahead of him.

The squad doesn't need tweaking of freshening up, it needs a repair job not dissimilar to the one faced by NC.

Almost every outfield player purchased after NC and before GR has been more expensive and worse than the player they replaced. That is going to take a long time to sort out. More than one transfer window.

It would appear that we can only bring in one more senior player without selling or loaning players out. At this point note how our transfer section is full of threads about potential incomings, tales of linked players and thwarted bids. Notice there are no threads on potential outgoings. Because we are paying more in wages than the players are worth. No one wants them. 

I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad.

We looked 5 or 6 players short of a promotion team yesterday. Hopefully Forsyth's confidence and match fitness will improve and Thorne will get and stay fit. That would save us time and money.

The main things that worry me at the minute is that a) other than James we haven't been linked to another senior CM and we have massive issues there and b) as i have alluded to in another thread our managerial instability is hindering us in the loan market. 

We need to lose around 10 players and gain 6 and even if we manage to sell and buy well it's going to be a long and frustrating time until we get there. I hope we and Mel both appreciate the enormity of the task and have the patience to see it through.

 

Wise old sage

[sage]

17 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Wise old sage

Wise middle aged sage thank you very much