sage Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Rather than condemn Rowett after watching yesterday's performance, perhaps we should instead appreciate the task ahead of him. The squad doesn't need tweaking of freshening up, it needs a repair job not dissimilar to the one faced by NC. Almost every outfield player purchased after NC and before GR has been more expensive and worse than the player they replaced. That is going to take a long time to sort out. More than one transfer window. It would appear that we can only bring in one more senior player without selling or loaning players out. At this point note how our transfer section is full of threads about potential incomings, tales of linked players and thwarted bids. Notice there are no threads on potential outgoings. Because we are paying more in wages than the players are worth. No one wants them. I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad. We looked 5 or 6 players short of a promotion team yesterday. Hopefully Forsyth's confidence and match fitness will improve and Thorne will get and stay fit. That would save us time and money. The main things that worry me at the minute is that a) other than James we haven't been linked to another senior CM and we have massive issues there and b) as i have alluded to in another thread our managerial instability is hindering us in the loan market. We need to lose around 10 players and gain 6 and even if we manage to sell and buy well it's going to be a long and frustrating time until we get there. I hope we and Mel both appreciate the enormity of the task and have the patience to see it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Problem is. We hope..... that's all we've got..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, sage said: Rather than condemn Rowett after watching yesterday's performance, perhaps we should instead appreciate the task ahead of him. The squad doesn't need tweaking of freshening up, it needs a repair job not dissimilar to the one faced by NC. Almost every outfield player purchased after NC and before GR has been more expensive and worse than the player they replaced. That is going to take a long time to sort out. More than one transfer window. It would appear that we can only bring in one more senior player without selling or loaning players out. At this point note how our transfer section is full of threads about potential incomings, tales of linked players and thwarted bids. Notice there are no threads on potential outgoings. Because we are paying more in wages than the players are worth. No one wants them. I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad. We looked 5 or 6 players short of a promotion team yesterday. Hopefully Forsyth's confidence and match fitness will improve and Thorne will get and stay fit. That would save us time and money. The main things that worry me at the minute is that a) other than James we haven't been linked to another senior CM and we have massive issues there and b) as i have alluded to in another thread our managerial instability is hindering us in the loan market. We need to lose around 10 players and gain 6 and even if we manage to sell and buy well it's going to be a long and frustrating time until we get there. I hope we and Mel both appreciate the enormity of the task and have the patience to see it through. Absolutely @sage, if I could give this post Multiple likes I would. The second paragraph in particular captures my sentiments exactly, very well said ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Given you a like, but with a core of Carson + back 4 + Huddlestone + Martin then I'd say it's the other 4 positions that need improving whether that be via signings or getting better performances out of the ones we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Great post. Totally agree that CM is a major problem. Neither Johnson or Butterfield impress me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 For me the more I see of Johnson the more I think he is a problem. His technical ability is low, poor first touch and is slow to read situations. Everything he does is reactionary rather than proactive. He's good in the air and can score goal but it's useless to us when we are out maneuvered every game. Butterfield isn't going to win the midfield battle for us, he wants other midfield players to do that so he can receive the layoff and do the damage further up the pitch. We simply aren't going to be able to solve this in this transfer window. No one will pay us a decent amount for the players we overspent on. It's a harsh lesson for everyone at board level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 It's funny, we were at the exact same crossroads a season ago..... Like I've said many times..... it isn't the money we've chucked at things we've wasted, it's part of that. The biggest thing we've wasted is time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: For me the more I see of Johnson the more I think he is a problem. His technical ability is low, poor first touch and is slow to read situations. Everything he does is reactionary rather than proactive. He's good in the air and can score goal but it's useless to us when we are out maneuvered every game. Butterfield isn't going to win the midfield battle for us, he wants other midfield players to do that so he can receive the layoff and do the damage further up the pitch. We simply aren't going to be able to solve this in this transfer window. No one will pay us a decent amount for the players we overspent on. It's a harsh lesson for everyone at board level. If it's actually true what the club said - that insurance paid for Johnson and Butterfield - we don't need decent amounts for them. We could just take any amount. The problem is that nobody wants what we are selling. At any price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: It's funny, we were at the exact same crossroads a season ago..... Like I've said many times..... it isn't the money we've chucked at things we've wasted, it's part of that. The biggest thing we've wasted is time. Thank heavens the football lasts forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Not sure what to think at the moment. I'm sure we should be getting more out of the players at our disposal. Yesterday just made me think GR has learnt absolutely nothing in the time he has been here. Same old problems. Over the past 4 or 5 seasons our defence has been reasonably decent as in top 6 or 7 in the division. He has been out and bought 3 more defensive players and added nothing new to the attacking side, in terms of new players or new ideas. To see us playing the way we have in the first 2 games of the season is disappointing to say the least. From what I heard Bennett was very positive in pre-season, so why on earth is he persisting with Weimann in a position he can clearly not play? I am hoping things would have been different if Vydra was fit yesterday but I am not sure it would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: If it's actually true what the club said - that insurance paid for Johnson and Butterfield - we don't need decent amounts for them. We could just take any amount. The problem is that nobody wants what we are selling. At any price. The club have never said that as far as I am aware. Insurance will cover wages, not transfer fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: For me the more I see of Johnson the more I think he is a problem. Butterfield isn't going to win the midfield battle for us, But gary seems to like them. He has consistantly picked both in preference to hughes / bryson. The bigger issue V wolves was gary's total inability to react to the tactical problem. We had these two plus big Tom in midfield but wolves just came down the flanks unimpeded.......... all game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Credit to Clough , the players he had here wanted to player here and wanted to play for him. That's clear with how many of them still play for him. The signings since have come for the cash imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalsheep02 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 45 minutes ago, sage said: Rather than condemn Rowett after watching yesterday's performance, perhaps we should instead appreciate the task ahead of him. The squad doesn't need tweaking of freshening up, it needs a repair job not dissimilar to the one faced by NC. Almost every outfield player purchased after NC and before GR has been more expensive and worse than the player they replaced. That is going to take a long time to sort out. More than one transfer window. It would appear that we can only bring in one more senior player without selling or loaning players out. At this point note how our transfer section is full of threads about potential incomings, tales of linked players and thwarted bids. Notice there are no threads on potential outgoings. Because we are paying more in wages than the players are worth. No one wants them. I know people are also frustrated by our style of football yesterday but when we tried to play a more expansive style they ripped us apart. We need to get used to a compact system against teams, even at home, until we improve the squad. We looked 5 or 6 players short of a promotion team yesterday. Hopefully Forsyth's confidence and match fitness will improve and Thorne will get and stay fit. That would save us time and money. The main things that worry me at the minute is that a) other than James we haven't been linked to another senior CM and we have massive issues there and b) as i have alluded to in another thread our managerial instability is hindering us in the loan market. We need to lose around 10 players and gain 6 and even if we manage to sell and buy well it's going to be a long and frustrating time until we get there. I hope we and Mel both appreciate the enormity of the task and have the patience to see it through. Great post and I agree with all of it. What worries me is that less than 2 weeks ago Rowett was telling us that the squad was already good enough for top 6 and a couple more signings and we would be top 2. He had some time to assess things at the end of last season so are we saying his assessment was wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, RamNut said: But gary seems to like them. He has consistantly picked both in preference to hughes / bryson. The bigger issue V wolves was gary's total inability to react to the tactical problem. We had these two plus big Tom in midfield but wolves just came down the flanks unimpeded.......... all game. Spot on. It was really very worrying when probably 15000 could see it and would have prob switched it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, RamNut said: But gary seems to like them. He has consistantly picked both in preference to hughes / bryson. The bigger issue V wolves was gary's total inability to react to the tactical problem. We had these two plus big Tom in midfield but wolves just came down the flanks unimpeded.......... all game. What formation did Wolves play? I was at a wedding so only have live text, write ups and highlights to go on. Did the wingers not track back? Our midfield three is low on mobility to me. But the bigger issue is intensity and energy, I'm watching other teams and they seem to want it twice as much as we do. We look slow, ponderous and massively lacking in ambition even in comparison to teams like Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, RamNut said: But gary seems to like them. He has consistantly picked both in preference to hughes / bryson. The bigger issue V wolves was gary's total inability to react to the tactical problem. We had these two plus big Tom in midfield but wolves just came down the flanks unimpeded.......... all game. Yes they had a free run. Anya cut one out on their right when he came on but it was a bit too late then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 56 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said: Given you a like, but with a core of Carson + back 4 + Huddlestone + Martin then I'd say it's the other 4 positions that need improving whether that be via signings or getting better performances out of the ones we've got. They are the ones that are the priority. I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said: Great post and I agree with all of it. What worries me is that less than 2 weeks ago Rowett was telling us that the squad was already good enough for top 6 and a couple more signings and we would be top 2. He had some time to assess things at the end of last season so are we saying his assessment was wrong? Rowett talks a lot of management twaddle. He says what people want to hear and I imagine he's like Steve Mac in an interview; all positive platitudes and PowerPoint waffle. They play a great game verbally but rarely produce the goods. It's like listening to David Brent trying to bluff his way with his bosses. In fact Derby remind me of a pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said: Great post and I agree with all of it. What worries me is that less than 2 weeks ago Rowett was telling us that the squad was already good enough for top 6 and a couple more signings and we would be top 2. He had some time to assess things at the end of last season so are we saying his assessment was wrong? We are good enough for the top 6 but having to play both Butterfield and Johnson kills any intent and mobility from midfield which was the problem last season as well but on a sunny afternoon in Derby wolves were so much better in terms of ability on the ball in midfield which made it easy for them, now they may do that all season or they may not but I think they were better than any side we saw last season and they have their star winger to return from injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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