Chris Martin - joined Reading on loan until the end of the season

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

You're embarrassing yourself with your constant criticism of Martin at every opportunity, to the point where most posters aren't taking anything you say seriously. Pity because on other topics you can actually make some decent comments.

I don't believe you but I'll look. Were the topics about football?

[Wolfie20]

15 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I don't believe you but I'll look. Were the topics about football?

Just what I'd been told but there again I've only been a member of the forum for 4 years so better to ask one of the older gang

[Mistaram]

3 hours ago, Ninos said:

It actually makes him a bad player since he repeats this over and over 

in fairness to Martin if you’ve got no pace no hustle no goalscoring ability and cannot beat a player one on one then how else are you supposed to make a living as a striker in football? The answer : Convince everyone you hold the ball up and are clever. What Butterfield is to a midfield Martin is to a forward line: appears to be useful but next to zero impact 

I’m not falling for any of it .. I would have if he’d have won the game at wembley or pulled off some kind of heroics like score 24 seconds in v forest or get a hat trick at Boro ... but it’s not in his repertoire I’m afraid to make a real difference. 

Ramage is right: if we could get 5-7m andput half of that to a real player like Afobe we’d be laughing all the way into the PL. Its really not very controversial at all

the difference maker on our team is Vydra right now ... 

Ninos Opinions will always be divided on Martin I think this whole thread is really irrelevant anyway why would Wolves want him he definitely would not suit their style of play They play a high energy fast attacking game Just agent talk again nothing will happen 

[Ninos]

Just now, Mistaram said:

Ninos Opinions will always be divided on Martin I think this whole thread is really irrelevant anyway why would Wolves want him he definitely would not suit their style of play They play a high energy fast attacking game Just agent talk again nothing will happen 

I actually think WE are the ones trying to make this happen. No doubt Wolves are fishing for a backup centre forward for Bonatini and co (they are light on options) and we dangle CM as that option: Martin represents someone who can slot in and spray balls to their dynamic attackers.  Although I don’t think Martin will want to give up a huge wage packet to go sit on another bench ... that will be the tricky part.

[Ninos]

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

You're embarrassing yourself with your constant criticism of Martin at every opportunity, to the point where most posters aren't taking anything you say seriously. Pity because on other topics you can actually make some decent comments.

Hi Wolfie!

So my Martin view is by far my least decent comment then. Fair monkeys. Which of my non martin decent views do you like best ?

Anyway, let’s see if he makes the Sat team and has an impact shall we ? I’d suggest if he never plays a part we will win comfortably. Cuz Vydra + Nugent will utterly devastate Barnsley if paired start to finish.

[lrm14]

26 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Hi Wolfie!

So my Martin view is by far my least decent comment then. Fair monkeys. Which of my non martin decent views do you like best ?

Anyway, let’s see if he makes the Sat team and has an impact shall we ? I’d suggest if he never plays a part we will win comfortably. Cuz Vydra + Nugent will utterly devastate Barnsley if paired start to finish.

I doubt he'll play vs Barnsley, but I reckon he'll start at home against Villa so how about we make our assessment there?

[cannable]

2 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

You're embarrassing yourself with your constant criticism of Martin at every opportunity, to the point where most posters aren't taking anything you say seriously. Pity because on other topics you can actually make some decent comments.

Reacting to 90% of positive comments about him with the laughing emoji probably doesn’t do his credibility much good... 

[Steve How Hard?]

41 minutes ago, Ninos said:

 

Anyway, let’s see if he makes the Sat team and has an impact shall we ? I’d suggest if he never plays a part we will win comfortably. Cuz Vydra + Nugent will utterly devastate Barnsley if paired start to finish.

You'll be hard pressed to find a Derby fan that won't be happy if your scenario comes true. However not many will wake up the day after harbouring an irrational hatred of one of our own players. Up the Rams.

[Sexydadbod]

I for one am glad we aren't as reliant on Martin anymore as we were very predictable previously. Nugent, Vydra, Martin and Winnall will all be important between now and the end of the season. It's good to see such a variety of striking options. Gone are the days we had Connor sammon and Leon best as our back up strikers.

[rynny]

15 hours ago, McLovin said:

I for one am glad we aren't as reliant on Martin anymore as we were very predictable previously. Nugent, Vydra, Martin and Winnall will all be important between now and the end of the season. It's good to see such a variety of striking options. Gone are the days we had Connor sammon and Leon best as our back up strikers.

How many teams are not predictable that are any good? Doesn't each team have a style of play? Do City play defensive counter attacking one week, then the following week route 1 with balls lumped into the box, then the following week play tika taka, then the following week gegen pressing? Do Burnley chop and change their style every week to become unpredictable? You know what Arsenal are going to do, Man U, Barca, Chelsea, Real. They all have a style. Boro did in this division, as did Bournemouth, Leicester, Watford.

[Sexydadbod]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

How many teams are not predictable that are any good? Doesn't each team have a style of play? Do City play defensive counter attacking one week, then the following week route 1 with balls lumped into the box, then the following week play tika taka, then the following week gegen pressing? Do Burnley chop and change their style every week to become unpredictable? You know what Arsenal are going to do, Man U, Barca, Chelsea, Real. They all have a style. Boro did in this division, as did Bournemouth, Leicester, Watford.

Teams knew that if you stopped martin, you stopped Derby because did we not know what to do when teams stuck a man on him. The teams you noted there may not have changed their whole style in games but they adapted to what the game required of them. And I'd argue that Man City have changed their style a lot in recent weeks and have been far more direct then they are at the start of the season. The best team over recent years, Real Madrid, also changed their style depending on the opposition- some weeks they may played a diamond then other weeks they played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3

Theres nothing wrong with having a style but you should adapt to particular situations as no team will be able to use their style throughout a whole season. That's what's rowett has done, we are more flexible than we have been in previous years.

[rynny]

8 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Teams knew that if you stopped martin, you stopped Derby because did we not know what to do when teams stuck a man on him. The teams you noted there may not have changed their whole style in games but they adapted to what the game required of them. And I'd argue that Man City have changed their style a lot in recent weeks and have been far more direct then they are at the start of the season. The best team over recent years, Real Madrid, also changed their style depending on the opposition- some weeks they may played a diamond then other weeks they played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3

Theres nothing wrong with having a style but you should adapt to particular situations as no team will be able to use their style throughout a whole season. That's what's rowett has done, we are more flexible than we have been in previous years.

But that isn't true, Martin in his first 2 full seasons had a win rate of 57%. If teams knew to do that how did we win so many games? the Third season under Clement and Wassall was 43%, when stopped getting the ball forward and played out slowly from the back, and started to have more "solid" players but were not as good on the ball, Especially when you had a left hand side of Shackell, Warnock, Johnson, Russell/Weimann. Just no true ball players there.

Teams may tweak things here and there but they aren't going to make major changes, which is what we were doing, slight changes in personnel. Swapping between Bamford, Ward, Dawkins and Russell, Hughes, Bryson and Hendrick. Depending on who played depends on the approach play. It wasn't always through Martin, if teams over loaded the middle we would play out wide, with Forsyth adding extra width when Ward/Dawkins cut inside, if there was no space on the wings we play through Hughes, Bryson, Hendrick, Martin and later Thorne. Buxton would often play the diagonal ball to the left wing. It was fast paced one touch football, and so much more.

We knew what we were going to do, it was predictable, but we were bloody good at it. As the fact we achieved more points during the whole of Mac's first reign than any other team in the country would suggest.

[Sexydadbod]

22 minutes ago, rynny said:

But that isn't true, Martin in his first 2 full seasons had a win rate of 57%. If teams knew to do that how did we win so many games? the Third season under Clement and Wassall was 43%, when stopped getting the ball forward and played out slowly from the back, and started to have more "solid" players but were not as good on the ball, Especially when you had a left hand side of Shackell, Warnock, Johnson, Russell/Weimann. Just no true ball players there.

Teams may tweak things here and there but they aren't going to make major changes, which is what we were doing, slight changes in personnel. Swapping between Bamford, Ward, Dawkins and Russell, Hughes, Bryson and Hendrick. Depending on who played depends on the approach play. It wasn't always through Martin, if teams over loaded the middle we would play out wide, with Forsyth adding extra width when Ward/Dawkins cut inside, if there was no space on the wings we play through Hughes, Bryson, Hendrick, Martin and later Thorne. Buxton would often play the diagonal ball to the left wing. It was fast paced one touch football, and so much more.

We knew what we were going to do, it was predictable, but we were bloody good at it. As the fact we achieved more points during the whole of Mac's first reign than any other team in the country would suggest.

So the statistics back up my view then? The win rate went down when people learnt to deal with Martin. Remember the infamous Rosler interview about Martin? Stop Martin and you stop Derby. We are no longer reliant on Martin as we previously were which is certainly a good thing and your post is only really focusing on the 13/14 season .Remember the collapse in 14/15? One of the factors for that was Martin's injury because we didn't know what to do when he wasn't playing. We were that desperate that we ended up rushing Martin back when he clearly wasn't fit. We used to involve him in every attack and yes other players were involved but Martin was central to everything but now we don't build up as much centrally. If Martin is as good as many believe he is then he should have no problems adapting under Rowett.

I'm  not saying we should sell him but it's good that we have far more striking options than we did before as we are more versatile and flexible. At least now we can play Vydra and Nugent against teams who leave space in behind and play Martin against teams who sit back.

[rynny]

51 minutes ago, McLovin said:

So the statistics back up my view then? The win rate went down when people learnt to deal with Martin. Remember the infamous Rosler interview about Martin? Stop Martin and you stop Derby. We are no longer reliant on Martin as we previously were which is certainly a good thing and your post is only really focusing on the 13/14 season .Remember the collapse in 14/15? One of the factors for that was Martin's injury because we didn't know what to do when he wasn't playing. We were that desperate that we ended up rushing Martin back when he clearly wasn't fit. We used to involve him in every attack and yes other players were involved but Martin was central to everything but now we don't build up as much centrally. If Martin is as good as many believe he is then he should have no problems adapting under Rowett.

I'm  not saying we should sell him but it's good that we have far more striking options than we did before as we are more versatile and flexible. At least now we can play Vydra and Nugent against teams who leave space in behind and play Martin against teams who sit back.

Well no, because we had changed our style, as I said, we were playing slow, pass it around the back, and we weren't just relying on Martin, we had Ince that we also relied on.

You say we don't build up as much centrally but we build up more than any other team through the centre in this league.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

What are you lot on about? ???

[Sparkle]

He played centre forward away from home and we won 3-0 with every other forward scoring,  happy days 

[Leicester Ram]

Amount of Derby fans at Barnsley giving Martin agro every time he made a mistake was amazing.

Had one bloke the row behind me in the first half who enjoyed lambasting Martin more than us scoring. He called him a fatty a couple of times and when I turned around to give him the 'you're a massive ****' look, he was positively beaming. Absolutely loved bashing him.

Unsurprisingly, he wasn't with any mates at the game, he was on his own ?

[Steve How Hard?]

1 minute ago, Leicester Ram said:

Amount of Derby fans at Barnsley giving Martin agro every time he made a mistake was amazing.

Had one bloke the row behind me in the first half who enjoyed lambasting Martin more than us scoring. He called him a fatty a couple of times and when I turned around to give him the 'you're a massive ****' look, he was positively beaming. Absolutely loved bashing him.

Unsurprisingly, he wasn't with any mates at the game, he was on his own ?

Glad you and Ninos have finally been acquainted. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

58 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Amount of Derby fans at Barnsley giving Martin agro every time he made a mistake was amazing.

Had one bloke the row behind me in the first half who enjoyed lambasting Martin more than us scoring. He called him a fatty a couple of times and when I turned around to give him the 'you're a massive ****' look, he was positively beaming. Absolutely loved bashing him.

Unsurprisingly, he wasn't with any mates at the game, he was on his own ?

The famous Derby anti fans. We are naturals at it.

[Rev]

I don't get what it is that so divides us about Martin.

In my eyes, he's the best forward we've had since Sturridge, if not Saunders, yet it seems half the fan base positively dislike him.

Stats back me up, and he seems more than willing to knuckle down when not selected, wait for his chance and contribute when he can.

Why can't certain people accept he's one of a number of decent forwards we seem to have at the moment, and be happy when he plays a part, and equally praise others when he doesn't?