cannable Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Spanish said: how long ago was that? Two and a bit years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, cannable said: No, we were top and then he got injured I do think the way we set up to play to CM's strengths was eventually countered and we had no other method to change to, I guess you don't agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Spanish said: I do think the way we set up to play to CM's strengths was eventually countered and we had no other method to change to, I guess you don't agree The Clement system broke down because teams were marking our right-hand side because that’s where all our footballers were. The end result was the horror show that was Preston at home which was effectively Warnock, Shackell, Johnny and BJ passing it between themselves for 90 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 23 hours ago, Andicis said: Absolute nonsense. I was at the Leeds game, Martin did a fine job. Were you at Leeds? Martin held the ball well, and got people involved in the play in the second half. As usual though, people will find any excuse to get at Martin, whereas Nugent would never be criticised for it. I like Nugent, but the double standards between Nugent and Martin is stark. If Nugent has a bad game, it doesn't matter cos he smiles, whereas if Martin has a bad game it's because he's a lazy, fat oaf according to some. Absolutely ridiculous Of course i was at Leeds i wouldnt have said i was if i wasnt (were you ? ). Im not one who needs an excuse to have a go at Martin I think he's a very good player and wouldn't want him to go but I will repeat what I saw at Leeds he was invisible and contributed very little That doesn't makes him a bad player its just one game Fans will always be divided on him he's just that type of player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, TuffLuff said: I think the wording leaves it too open ended and non commital. Saying things like ‘he’s in our plans’ could mean anything. When all is said and done, Martin has been a very good servant to this club and I’d much rather they came out saying ‘hes not for sale’ and let him know where his future lies. It suggests that he will revert to Vydra/Nugent at a drop of a hat again when I think Martin deserves an opportunity to have a run of games like others have had. I fear it makes us one dimensional, back to relying on one player for goals, which I keep saying was the problem with last years team. I don’t know, I don’t mean to be OTT, but I can’t see the point of not keeping a striker as good as Martin, if you then need to replace him (my stance is also similar on Thorne). I’m uncomfortable because I think it can show that he’s not open to trying something different. Could be wrong, but I’d rather him show some commitment. I won’t link because I don’t want him to get the click bait, but Ramage said he’d consider selling Martin in January. I don’t think that’s really his job to say who he’d sell. Then today he’s written about replacing him with Nugent for Barnsley with the words ‘no disrespect’. It’s no surprise, and I understand it but again I feel it’s this ‘one dimensional’ feeling that we have to get the best out of Vydra that I’m not sure is helpful to the rest of the team. It’s like we can discuss a Martin rumour, but Vydra’s effectiveness to the team overall is off the table. His Vydra/Nugent love in is increasingly apparent and not overly helpful to the discussion in my overall view. Wouldn't worry too much about what Ramage says - I don't. Most of it are cliches and he seems to change like the proverbial wind. A poor-mans' Robbie Savage which says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 25 minutes ago, cannable said: The Clement system broke down because teams were marking our right-hand side because that’s where all our footballers were. The end result was the horror show that was Preston at home which was effectively Warnock, Shackell, Johnny and BJ passing it between themselves for 90 minutes TBH first time I've heard that. Ramstv wasn't available then so I have no first hand experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 20 hours ago, rynny said: Was merely pointing out that Winnall didn't do all the work and Martin wasn't invisible. And other than the goals they contributed similar, yes I get that the stats don't give the full story but to say a player was invisible yet had more of the ball doesn't make sense to me. Also the main thing is the result, we won and the whole team contributed to it. I guess I just dislike unfair criticism. The pictures show the 2s touches, passes and shots. Not brilliantly clear on the pics but if you want to have a look and a play they are here. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1192449/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Leeds-Derby I will give you a 'like' for that just for the time and effort in posting those graphs. Not sure what they mean though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: I will give you a 'like' for that just for the time and effort in posting those graphs. Not sure what they mean though Not sure I do either In all seriousness though, if you like looking at players' contributions whoscored is really good visual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 30 minutes ago, rynny said: Not sure I do either In all seriousness though, if you like looking at players' contributions whoscored is really good visual. I thin who scored is most reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Mistaram said: Of course i was at Leeds i wouldnt have said i was if i wasnt (were you ? ). Im not one who needs an excuse to have a go at Martin I think he's a very good player and wouldn't want him to go but I will repeat what I saw at Leeds he was invisible and contributed very little That doesn't makes him a bad player its just one game Fans will always be divided on him he's just that type of player It actually makes him a bad player since he repeats this over and over in fairness to Martin if you’ve got no pace no hustle no goalscoring ability and cannot beat a player one on one then how else are you supposed to make a living as a striker in football? The answer : Convince everyone you hold the ball up and are clever. What Butterfield is to a midfield Martin is to a forward line: appears to be useful but next to zero impact I’m not falling for any of it .. I would have if he’d have won the game at wembley or pulled off some kind of heroics like score 24 seconds in v forest or get a hat trick at Boro ... but it’s not in his repertoire I’m afraid to make a real difference. Ramage is right: if we could get 5-7m andput half of that to a real player like Afobe we’d be laughing all the way into the PL. Its really not very controversial at all the difference maker on our team is Vydra right now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ninos said: It actually makes him a bad player since he repeats this over and over in fairness to Martin if you’ve got no pace no hustle no goalscoring ability and cannot beat a player one on one then how else are you supposed to make a living as a striker in football? The answer : Convince everyone you hold the ball up and are clever. What Butterfield is to a midfield Martin is to a forward line: appears to be useful but next to zero impact I’m not falling for any of it .. I would have if he’d have won the game at wembley or pulled off some kind of heroics like score 24 seconds in v forest or get a hat trick at Boro ... but it’s not in his repertoire I’m afraid to make a real difference. Ramage is right: if we could get 5-7m andput half of that to a real player like Afobe we’d be laughing all the way into the PL. Its really not very controversial at all the difference maker on our team is Vydra right now ... Have you ever thought that maybe you just don’t like Martin and your bias clouds your judgement? As opposed to everybody else being mere plebs to you, oh fountain of footballing understanding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 29 minutes ago, Ninos said: It actually makes him a bad player since he repeats this over and over in fairness to Martin if you’ve got no pace no hustle no goalscoring ability and cannot beat a player one on one then how else are you supposed to make a living as a striker in football? The answer : Convince everyone you hold the ball up and are clever. What Butterfield is to a midfield Martin is to a forward line: appears to be useful but next to zero impact I’m not falling for any of it .. I would have if he’d have won the game at wembley or pulled off some kind of heroics like score 24 seconds in v forest or get a hat trick at Boro ... but it’s not in his repertoire I’m afraid to make a real difference. Ramage is right: if we could get 5-7m andput half of that to a real player like Afobe we’d be laughing all the way into the PL. Its really not very controversial at all the difference maker on our team is Vydra right now ... Yeah it's not like he outscored the rest of the strikers in the Championship over a 3 year period. Oh wait... Martin has the first yard in his head. I'm not entirely convinced that applies to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 If Martin leaves then I'd like to see us go for Niasse on loan from Everton. He would be significant improvement on what we have got and I can see him being available as Everton want Aubameyang and Deeney in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, McLovin said: If Martin leaves then I'd like to see us go for Niasse on loan from Everton. He would be significant improvement on what we have got and I can see him being available as Everton want Aubameyang and Deeney in January There's absolutely 0 chance of any of this happening. Niasse is being tapped up by clubs in the Europa League and the agents of Deeney and Aubameyang will be crying with laughter as they slam the phone down on Steve Walsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Just now, lrm14 said: There's absolutely 0 chance of any of this happening. Niasse is being tapped up by clubs in the Europa League and the agents of Deeney and Aubameyang will be crying with laughter as they slam the phone down on Steve Walsh. Well sam allardyce said today there is a possibility of Aubameyang happening. Aubameyang follows the money and is a troublemaker so I could see Everton getting him and Niasse being surplus. Niasse knows Huddlestone and Davies from his time at Hull too. Ledley was also impossible according to some ? He may well be linked to europa league teams but maybe he will want to stay in England? Turkey aren't exactly welcoming to black players and having played in Russia you would assume that he would want to avoid any further abuse about his ethnicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, lrm14 said: There's absolutely 0 chance of any of this happening. Niasse is being tapped up by clubs in the Europa League and the agents of Deeney and Aubameyang will be crying with laughter as they slam the phone down on Steve Walsh. They may have a sniff of Deeney if they pull away from the relegation zone by mid jan. Aubameyang is Fantasy Island material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, McLovin said: Well sam allardyce said today there is a possibility of Aubameyang happening. Aubameyang follows the money and is a troublemaker so I could see Everton getting him and Niasse being surplus. Niasse knows Huddlestone and Davies from his time at Hull too. Ledley was also impossible according to some ? He may well be linked to europa league teams but maybe he will want to stay in England? Turkey aren't exactly welcoming to black players and having played in Russia you would assume that he would want to avoid any further abuse about his ethnicity. Why would one of the most highly coveted strikers in Europe trade Dortmund, one of the best teams in Germany, for an underachieving Prem side who just got embarrassed in the Europa League? There are a few good clubs like AC, Chelsea and Liverpool after him and if he really wanted to follow the money he'd go to China who have been sniffing around. It's just Allardyce blowing smoke and going after mental targets so he can say after the January window 'oh well, we tried' when they reveal a lackluster signing instead. Turkey doesn't have the same reputation that Russia does for racism and even if they did, I imagine the situation is the same in Russia where players like hundreds of miles away from their respective clubs in private mansions. If Fenerbache are genuinely interested it's a no brainer to go there over us, but I'll admit that deal would be more likely than Aubameyang to Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 25 minutes ago, sage said: They may have a sniff of Deeney if they pull away from the relegation zone by mid jan. Aubameyang is Fantasy Island material. Yeah if they improve dramatically then I can see that happening. Watford are looking really good at the moment though so I'd find it strange if he took a step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The unrealistic replacements suggested probably shows that we would struggle to replace him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Ninos said: It actually makes him a bad player since he repeats this over and over in fairness to Martin if you’ve got no pace no hustle no goalscoring ability and cannot beat a player one on one then how else are you supposed to make a living as a striker in football? The answer : Convince everyone you hold the ball up and are clever. What Butterfield is to a midfield Martin is to a forward line: appears to be useful but next to zero impact I’m not falling for any of it .. I would have if he’d have won the game at wembley or pulled off some kind of heroics like score 24 seconds in v forest or get a hat trick at Boro ... but it’s not in his repertoire I’m afraid to make a real difference. Ramage is right: if we could get 5-7m andput half of that to a real player like Afobe we’d be laughing all the way into the PL. Its really not very controversial at all the difference maker on our team is Vydra right now ... You're embarrassing yourself with your constant criticism of Martin at every opportunity, to the point where most posters aren't taking anything you say seriously. Pity because on other topics you can actually make some decent comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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