angieram Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Interestingly, we had also struggled against Norwich in the corresponding away game earlier in the season when we were really under the cosh until half time. Nuge scored that terrific goal right on half time for a travesty of a scoreline. Martin came on for the second half and we had so much more control and looked the better side. Of course we won 2-1 in the end. I'm reading people defending Jerome because of him being isolated but that's exactly what we were saying about Martin on occasions last season and were being called out for it. But even though Martin doesn't 'fit' Rowett's system he has been an important part of the game management in many of our victories this season. I just feel we have lost that option now and are worse off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, angieram said: Interestingly, we had also struggled against Norwich in the corresponding away game earlier in the season when we were really under the cosh until half time. Nuge scored that terrific goal right on half time for a travesty of a scoreline. Martin came on for the second half and we had so much more control and looked the better side. Of course we won 2-1 in the end. I'm reading people defending Jerome because of him being isolated but that's exactly what we were saying about Martin on occasions last season and were being called out for it. But even though Martin doesn't 'fit' Rowett's system he has been an important part of the game management in many of our victories this season. I just feel we have lost that option now and are worse off for it. I think you have to accept that Rowett wants a different type of player to Martin - Jerome is far quicker and more mobile - that's what Rowett wants from his centre forward. Yes there's an argument that Martin gives us something different (evident from performances and number of goals he's scored over the past few years), but in the system we are now playing, that option isn't worth taking up a place in the squad. He's an expensive asset that would probably not have made the 18 most weeks - that's a good enough reason to send him out on loan - ignoring the fact that he seemed to be struggling to adapt to not being the first name on the team sheet and looked out of form. If he does well for Reading, who knows what the future holds...but I don't think it will be back here with GR in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Jerome's started well. Most of the team were off it on Saturday but he should've earned us a penalty v Bristol, was a menace when came on at Millwall and scored while playing well v Brentford. Why lambaste him because another striker has gone who's less suited to the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I can't see anyone lambasting Jerome. This is a thread abut Martin. As @Gaspode says, there are more reasons than fit for Rowett letting him out - money and expectation being amongst them. My point about Jerome was we shouldn't be treating him any differently to how Martin was treated. Personally feel the fault in both players isolation lies elsewhere on the pitch and if we are going to play the way we are Nugent is a much better fit than either. Trouble is, he isn't 90 minute match fit twice a week. I hope Jerome does well for Derby but if we want him to we have to play the ball in to him more often and more accurately. Could say the same about Martin so we go round again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Gaspode said: I think you have to accept that Rowett wants a different type of player to Martin - Jerome is far quicker and more mobile - that's what Rowett wants from his centre forward. Yes there's an argument that Martin gives us something different (evident from performances and number of goals he's scored over the past few years), but in the system we are now playing, that option isn't worth taking up a place in the squad. He's an expensive asset that would probably not have made the 18 most weeks - that's a good enough reason to send him out on loan - ignoring the fact that he seemed to be struggling to adapt to not being the first name on the team sheet and looked out of form. If he does well for Reading, who knows what the future holds...but I don't think it will be back here with GR in charge. In the second half against Norwich, we put ourselves under constant pressure because virtually every time the ball was booted upfield it was pinged back to Maddison or another of their midfield runners to start weaving their passing movements again. From what I've seen so far of Jerome, hold-up play isn't one of his strengths - this isn't a criticism of him, more an acceptance that if we persist with giving him little or no support from midfield then we can expect more of the same. The one player who we needed off the bench on Saturday was scoring for Reading - looks very much like Rowetts' decision to let him go which is fair enough seeing as ultimately the responsibility is his so it will be interesting to see how he finds a way of avoiding a repeat of Saturdays' second half - it was abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I can see it. It's a Martin thread being turned into slate a new signing to make an excuse for the old one. Maybe he isn't any more suited to how we play but it already seems apparent to me that he is. Rowett must think so too or wouldn't have brought him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: In the second half against Norwich, we put ourselves under constant pressure because virtually every time the ball was booted upfield it was pinged back to Maddison or another of their midfield runners to start weaving their passing movements again. From what I've seen so far of Jerome, hold-up play isn't one of his strengths - this isn't a criticism of him, more an acceptance that if we persist with giving him little or no support from midfield then we can expect more of the same. The one player who we needed off the bench on Saturday was scoring for Reading - looks very much like Rowetts' decision to let him go which is fair enough seeing as ultimately the responsibility is his so it will be interesting to see how he finds a way of avoiding a repeat of Saturdays' second half - it was abysmal. Wolfie Little point in having anybody holding it up if you don't play with midfield runners because we don't play that way We've managed pretty well all season without anybody holding it up Yes we were poor on Saturday but let's credit Norwich for that they are as good as anyone we've played this season Don't forget only a couple of weeks ago it took Chelsea 210 minutes and pens to beat them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I would have kepted him used him in a midfield opaption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Mistaram said: Wolfie Little point in having anybody holding it up if you don't play with midfield runners because we don't play that way We've managed pretty well all season without anybody holding it up Yes we were poor on Saturday but let's credit Norwich for that they are as good as anyone we've played this season Don't forget only a couple of weeks ago it took Chelsea 210 minutes and pens to beat them Totally disagree with that viewpoint of yours. It was criminal the way that we kept giving the ball away in the second half. Our game was crying out for someone to actually hold onto the ball instead of wild forward passes that are 'meat & drink' to any defender, or just as bad trying to go on a run with the ball and getting dispossessed continually. The way we played on Saturday lacked any intelligence. As a small example Marcus Olsson was left stranded so many times when he had the ball that he was forced to play a ball that had little chance of reaching a Derby player. Jerome is perfectly capable of holding onto the ball but he was given nothing to play with apart from balls to chase. To me it was lazy football with little intention of taking responsibility for looking after the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 People saying Martin isn’t suited to this and that it is worth remembering that this season Martin has started four league games in an away draw on the opening day of the season at newly relegated Sunderland, at home against wolves with a powder puff midfield behind him which we lost ( as most have done) at home against Burton which we won against a deep set defence and away at Barnsley in a very good away 3-0 win - hardly unsuited not to mention numerous substitute controlling roles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Sparkle said: People saying Martin isn’t suited to this and that it is worth remembering that this season Martin has started four league games in an away draw on the opening day of the season at newly relegated Sunderland, at home against wolves with a powder puff midfield behind him which we lost ( as most have done) at home against Burton which we won against a deep set defence and away at Barnsley in a very good away 3-0 win - hardly unsuited not to mention numerous substitute controlling roles Be careful quoting facts Sparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Sparkle said: People saying Martin isn’t suited to this and that it is worth remembering that this season Martin has started four league games in an away draw on the opening day of the season at newly relegated Sunderland, at home against wolves with a powder puff midfield behind him which we lost ( as most have done) at home against Burton which we won against a deep set defence and away at Barnsley in a very good away 3-0 win - hardly unsuited not to mention numerous substitute controlling roles You've missed out the 1-2 away win at Leeds, which he also started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, reveldevil said: You've missed out the 1-2 away win at Leeds, which he also started. Nice spot - I couldn’t remember that one but it shows him in a better light I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 FFS, We dropped 2 pts because Martin was not playing for us.... Maybe it was something to do with having 11 on the field that actually had an off day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, toddy said: FFS, We dropped 2 pts because Martin was not playing for us.... Maybe it was something to do with having 11 on the field that actually had an off day. There is a school of thought that Martin is the best striker derby have and that any result/ performance would have been better if only Martin had played , your never going to change that toddy,you just have to accept that it’s just opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, toddy said: FFS, We dropped 2 pts because Martin was not playing for us.... Maybe it was something to do with having 11 on the field that actually had an off day. I think it was more to do with we couldn't hold on to the ball, or even wouldn't hold on to the ball. Whether it is Martin or Jerome I am not fussed but our game plan was pathetic. Eleven players never have an off day together, that type of scenario is caused either by a couple of players or the managers instructions being wrong for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, toddy said: FFS, We dropped 2 pts because Martin was not playing for us.... Maybe it was something to do with having 11 on the field that actually had an off day. Yes any game we fail to win is because we loaned Martin to Reading, keep up. Makes you wonder how we won so many without him playing doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, bcnram said: I think it was more to do with we couldn't hold on to the ball, or even wouldn't hold on to the ball. Whether it is Martin or Jerome I am not fussed but our game plan was pathetic. Eleven players never have an off day together, that type of scenario is caused either by a couple of players or the managers instructions being wrong for the game. An absolute spot on post, making a point which is largely missed. Our inability to hold the ball up top is a growing concern, one after Brentford I thought may have been sorted through Jerome, but after Saturday I’m not too sure again. The front four being so ineffective on Saturday (aside Vydra’s quality for the goal) gave our midfield too much to do, which led to being overrun and losing the battle. It cried out forvusvto get some sustained pressure in their half but we didn’t have the players who can do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 50 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: An absolute spot on post, making a point which is largely missed. Our inability to hold the ball up top is a growing concern. After Brentford I thought may have been sorted through Jerome, but after Saturday I’m not too sure again. The front four being so ineffective on Saturday (aside Vydra’s quality for the goal) gave our midfield too much to do, which led to being overrun and losing the battle. It cried out for us to get some sustained pressure in their half but we didn’t have the players who can do that Fixed that for myself (sorry for double post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 4 hours ago, TuffLuff said: An absolute spot on post, making a point which is largely missed. Our inability to hold the ball up top is a growing concern, one after Brentford I thought may have been sorted through Jerome, but after Saturday I’m not too sure again. The front four being so ineffective on Saturday (aside Vydra’s quality for the goal) gave our midfield too much to do, which led to being overrun and losing the battle. It cried out forvusvto get some sustained pressure in their half but we didn’t have the players who can do that Agree, holding the ball and retaining it can be as good defensively as headless chicken running. At least Nugent does get the ball to other players better than Jerome has done so far ( early days not critcising ) or Winnall did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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