cannable Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 38 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Thought that's what we've all been saying we've needed for several seasons. i also thought that's what weimann Butterfield Johnson and Baird were. Sadly we've just made them all look crap with poor managers philosophies The problem is them not fitting in the first place though. We had a system and they just didn't fit it. Then the situation started to get more confused once different managers started trying to introduce different philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Tombo said: Hang on, you're not actually being serious are you? Surely not. Serious about what? Having done some very brief scouting before, I don't see why I couldn't do some for Derby. Afterall, whatever has been done over the past 24 months, could I actually do any worse? At least I have an idea in regards to systems and type of players needed. I could recommend players who could turn out to be inadequate, but it won't be as a result of them not fitting into the system. There is nothing worse in terms of recruitment than what we have done over the past 24 months. Bought unmotivated players on high wages who may have 'ability' but they don't fit the philosophy. Creates a mess of a squad, which we currenty have. 1 hour ago, David said: Wouldn't that limit your scouting to who's on TV? I already have an idea in terms of play type. Perhaps you can't judge the true ability of a player you watch on TV, but you can certainly view the type of player he is and what his basic strengths/weaknesses are. Statistics can then reinforce this, and modern statistics and sport science in footballing terms have reached an advanced stage where many now place emphasis on pulse rate, kilometres run and average sprint speed. You don't need to be at a game to view this. 1 hour ago, EnigmaRam said: Thought that's what we've all been saying we've needed for several seasons. i also thought that's what weimann Butterfield Johnson and Baird were. Sadly we've just made them all look crap with poor managers philosophies The players originally bought in never fit the system. It took Clough years to bring the right sort of players in under a tight budget, and McClaren tok over a very settle and motivated squad built to play 433. Since then though, McClaren/Clement/Recruitment team just resorted to a scattergun approach in 2015 where we ended up bringing in Bent, Ince, Carson, Weimann, Blackman, Baird, Camara Pearce, Johnson, Butterfield etc.. You could argue each player looks good on paper. Bent a renowned scorer from the PL, Ince a top Championship winger, Carson a former England no.1, Weimann a PL player, Blackman was Reading's leading scorer, Baird with plenty of PL and international experience, Pearce a former Reading captain, Shackell, Johnson a former Leeds POTY (I believe?) and helped Norwich to promotion, Butterfield a POTY at Barnsley/Huddersfield, Camara the fastest winger in the French top-flight... However.... The majority clearly didn't fit the profile in terms of the system/philosophy already implemented at Derby. You have to look deeper. Why did these players flourish at their former clubs? Was it because they had a system built to get the best out of them? Were they leading players in 'lesser' sides where with added responsibility they can look better (Butterfield's case, perhaps?). Weimann was a forward at Villa. He wasnt going to replace Chris Martin, so he's immediately out of position here. Bent is a striker who plays on the shoulder. We play through Martin, so there you have two totally contrasting styles of strikers. Pearce played in a direct Reading side who rarely focused on building from the back. Same with Shackell at Burnley. But we do... Johnson played on the left side of a 442 at Norwich. How does his style help us? He has since become our leading DM which is alarming to say the least. Anyone who has seen Camara would know he has bags of pace. Watch his youtube vids. But he would never be afforded that space here in the Championship and you can see from such a basic youtube clip how his control is mish-mash and his decision-making poor. He's also another left-footed winger, added to Ince and Russell, who are better out on the right where they can cut in. Blackman, well he was poor at Reading two seasons ago, he then had a purple patch last term playing on the right side of a two-man attack. We don't play with two upfront, and besides he's yet another left-footed player. Erm, Camara, Ince and Russell wasn't enough? Let's add another! Our recruitment was awful and so ill-thought. No planning. Just a case of 'he's done well at this club and is available, let's bring him in' but they never actually analysed why they may have done well elsewhere and whether they can really fit into the system we had in place and a side which was knocking on the door of automatic promotion. Two seasons later and we are where we are. Anyone actually surprised? I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I already have an idea in terms of play type. Perhaps you can't judge the true ability of a player you watch on TV, but you can certainly view the type of player he is and what his basic strengths/weaknesses are. Statistics can then reinforce this, and modern statistics and sport science in footballing terms have reached an advanced stage where many now place emphasis on pulse rate, kilometres run and average sprint speed. You don't need to be at a game to view this. Which players do you have in mind to bring in the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, David said: Which players do you have in mind to bring in the summer? A right-footed left winger, an attack-minded midfielder who can press hard off the ball, a holding midfielder who is comfortable with the ball at his feet and can pass forwards, taking the pressure of either Hughes/Butterfield to link play, and a new RB. Those are the four positions I would look to strengthen as priorities. But that's assuming Rowett wants us to play a variation of 433 which can play aggressively off the ball, pressing to win it back. Like I said, with our mish-mash squad, Rowett arguably has licence to change it all up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is getting hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: A right-footed left winger, an attack-minded midfielder who can press hard off the ball, a holding midfielder who is comfortable with the ball at his feet and can pass forwards, taking the pressure of either Hughes/Butterfield to link play, and a new RB. Those are the four positions I would look to strengthen as priorities. But that's assuming Rowett wants us to play a variation of 433 which can play aggressively off the ball, pressing to win it back. Like I said, with our mish-mash squad, Rowett arguably has licence to change it all up now. Any names for those positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 minute ago, David said: Any names for those positions? Budget? Tom Crainey, Massimo Luongo, Sam Larsson to name a few are ideal players for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, David said: Which players do you have in mind to bring in the summer? Quick winger... Speedy Gonzalez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, David said: Any names for those positions? Chris Evans took it with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Budget? Tom Crainey, Massimo Luongo, Sam Larsson to name a few are ideal players for us. Let's say funds from what you can sell plus £5m, have to keep an eye on FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 58 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Serious about what? Having done some very brief scouting before, I don't see why I couldn't do some for Derby. Afterall, whatever has been done over the past 24 months, could I actually do any worse? At least I have an idea in regards to systems and type of players needed. I could recommend players who could turn out to be inadequate, but it won't be as a result of them not fitting into the system. There is nothing worse in terms of recruitment than what we have done over the past 24 months. Bought unmotivated players on high wages who may have 'ability' but they don't fit the philosophy. Creates a mess of a squad, which we currenty have. I already have an idea in terms of play type. Perhaps you can't judge the true ability of a player you watch on TV, but you can certainly view the type of player he is and what his basic strengths/weaknesses are. Statistics can then reinforce this, and modern statistics and sport science in footballing terms have reached an advanced stage where many now place emphasis on pulse rate, kilometres run and average sprint speed. You don't need to be at a game to view this. The players originally bought in never fit the system. It took Clough years to bring the right sort of players in under a tight budget, and McClaren tok over a very settle and motivated squad built to play 433. Since then though, McClaren/Clement/Recruitment team just resorted to a scattergun approach in 2015 where we ended up bringing in Bent, Ince, Carson, Weimann, Blackman, Baird, Camara Pearce, Johnson, Butterfield etc.. You could argue each player looks good on paper. Bent a renowned scorer from the PL, Ince a top Championship winger, Carson a former England no.1, Weimann a PL player, Blackman was Reading's leading scorer, Baird with plenty of PL and international experience, Pearce a former Reading captain, Shackell, Johnson a former Leeds POTY (I believe?) and helped Norwich to promotion, Butterfield a POTY at Barnsley/Huddersfield, Camara the fastest winger in the French top-flight... However.... The majority clearly didn't fit the profile in terms of the system/philosophy already implemented at Derby. You have to look deeper. Why did these players flourish at their former clubs? Was it because they had a system built to get the best out of them? Were they leading players in 'lesser' sides where with added responsibility they can look better (Butterfield's case, perhaps?). Weimann was a forward at Villa. He wasnt going to replace Chris Martin, so he's immediately out of position here. Bent is a striker who plays on the shoulder. We play through Martin, so there you have two totally contrasting styles of strikers. Pearce played in a direct Reading side who rarely focused on building from the back. Same with Shackell at Burnley. But we do... Johnson played on the left side of a 442 at Norwich. How does his style help us? He has since become our leading DM which is alarming to say the least. Anyone who has seen Camara would know he has bags of pace. Watch his youtube vids. But he would never be afforded that space here in the Championship and you can see from such a basic youtube clip how his control is mish-mash and his decision-making poor. He's also another left-footed winger, added to Ince and Russell, who are better out on the right where they can cut in. Blackman, well he was poor at Reading two seasons ago, he then had a purple patch last term playing on the right side of a two-man attack. We don't play with two upfront, and besides he's yet another left-footed player. Erm, Camara, Ince and Russell wasn't enough? Let's add another! Our recruitment was awful and so ill-thought. No planning. Just a case of 'he's done well at this club and is available, let's bring him in' but they never actually analysed why they may have done well elsewhere and whether they can really fit into the system we had in place and a side which was knocking on the door of automatic promotion. Two seasons later and we are where we are. Anyone actually surprised? I'm not. Tools of the trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 One thing's for sure, Bris wouldn't have lumbered us with the most injured Blackman since Rodney King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 In the summer we need a right back, centre back, a cdm, a box to box centre mid , a left winger and a wildcard Some suggestions: Box to Box-Irvine Cdm- Kieftenbeld Right back- Darikwa Centre back- Tarkowski Left winger- Ibe(loan) Wildcard- Ollie Watkins Non of these would be overly expensive but would suit what Rowett probably wants based on his Burton and Birmingham teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: Serious about what? Having done some very brief scouting before, I don't see why I couldn't do some for Derby. Afterall, whatever has been done over the past 24 months, could I actually do any worse? At least I have an idea in regards to systems and type of players needed. I could recommend players who could turn out to be inadequate, but it won't be as a result of them not fitting into the system. There is nothing worse in terms of recruitment than what we have done over the past 24 months. Bought unmotivated players on high wages who may have 'ability' but they don't fit the philosophy. Creates a mess of a squad, which we currenty have. I already have an idea in terms of play type. Perhaps you can't judge the true ability of a player you watch on TV, but you can certainly view the type of player he is and what his basic strengths/weaknesses are. Statistics can then reinforce this, and modern statistics and sport science in footballing terms have reached an advanced stage where many now place emphasis on pulse rate, kilometres run and average sprint speed. You don't need to be at a game to view this. The players originally bought in never fit the system. It took Clough years to bring the right sort of players in under a tight budget, and McClaren tok over a very settle and motivated squad built to play 433. Since then though, McClaren/Clement/Recruitment team just resorted to a scattergun approach in 2015 where we ended up bringing in Bent, Ince, Carson, Weimann, Blackman, Baird, Camara Pearce, Johnson, Butterfield etc.. You could argue each player looks good on paper. Bent a renowned scorer from the PL, Ince a top Championship winger, Carson a former England no.1, Weimann a PL player, Blackman was Reading's leading scorer, Baird with plenty of PL and international experience, Pearce a former Reading captain, Shackell, Johnson a former Leeds POTY (I believe?) and helped Norwich to promotion, Butterfield a POTY at Barnsley/Huddersfield, Camara the fastest winger in the French top-flight... However.... The majority clearly didn't fit the profile in terms of the system/philosophy already implemented at Derby. You have to look deeper. Why did these players flourish at their former clubs? Was it because they had a system built to get the best out of them? Were they leading players in 'lesser' sides where with added responsibility they can look better (Butterfield's case, perhaps?). Weimann was a forward at Villa. He wasnt going to replace Chris Martin, so he's immediately out of position here. Bent is a striker who plays on the shoulder. We play through Martin, so there you have two totally contrasting styles of strikers. Pearce played in a direct Reading side who rarely focused on building from the back. Same with Shackell at Burnley. But we do... Johnson played on the left side of a 442 at Norwich. How does his style help us? He has since become our leading DM which is alarming to say the least. Anyone who has seen Camara would know he has bags of pace. Watch his youtube vids. But he would never be afforded that space here in the Championship and you can see from such a basic youtube clip how his control is mish-mash and his decision-making poor. He's also another left-footed winger, added to Ince and Russell, who are better out on the right where they can cut in. Blackman, well he was poor at Reading two seasons ago, he then had a purple patch last term playing on the right side of a two-man attack. We don't play with two upfront, and besides he's yet another left-footed player. Erm, Camara, Ince and Russell wasn't enough? Let's add another! Our recruitment was awful and so ill-thought. No planning. Just a case of 'he's done well at this club and is available, let's bring him in' but they never actually analysed why they may have done well elsewhere and whether they can really fit into the system we had in place and a side which was knocking on the door of automatic promotion. Two seasons later and we are where we are. Anyone actually surprised? I'm not. Have you ever thought about writing a book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, McLovin said: In the summer we need a right back, centre back, a cdm, a box to box centre mid , a left winger and a wildcard Some suggestions: Box to Box-Irvine Cdm- Kieftenbeld Right back- Darikwa Centre back- Tarkowski Left winger- Ibe(loan) Wildcard- Ollie Watkins Non of these would be overly expensive but would suit what Rowett probably wants based on his Burton and Birmingham teams. You can't just walk into another mans job interview! Have some respect jeeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The worrying thing is that Bris in spot on and this is a major problem. I could have identified better players if you gave me a budget of 30-50 million. That's not me being arrogant but it's worrying that a novice like myself would most likely have done better. You have to ask what our recruitment team are doing with their lives. If I was doing that role full time I would spend my whole time and carefully assess which players to buy rather than buy players that any of us could have identified like Johnson, Shackell etc. We need to utilise the lower league and foreign market a lot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is getting even more hilarious!! Stop it, please, please stop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 If fans are calling out signings and predicting why they will fail to integrate and then being proved right isn't that worrying? And does it not show that 'yes', you would have done a better job? Either if said job was just not signing anyone at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I have done a course in first aid and had to put a few plasters on children whilst working in a school. Can I apply for the role of physio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Some proper daydreamers out there isn't there? I've been a legend in hindsight for years, all the others players I would have brought in instead would have definitely fit in and been awesome. Easy this football business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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