MackworthRamIsGod Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 It will be interesting to see how Bogle does in League 1 next season. If he has a big season and scores bucket loads of goals, his value could rise massively. Of course he could flop massively. the mind Bogles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Judging by the videos Watkins lacks pace. i hate to say it but he reminded me of....deon burton. Therefore not fussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 13 hours ago, 86 points said: There were at least as many in the pro-Nugent camp as there were screaming for Bogle. I was one of them. Seems incongruous to cite Nugent as an example of how folk should only put forward players they've seen play when we're all familiar with Nugent and still a good few of us felt he was a poor signing. In so much, familiarity served folk no better )or worse) YouTube. When clubs use scouting operations to find new talent they effectively outsource and will rely on word of mouth and tape to evaluate the player in question. This is especially true of players from abroad. Nothing strange about fans doing the same on a forum especially when it's not their own money is at risk. IMO there are more than enough sensible endorsements of Watkins to believe he is a talent and at @£2 million with the balance deferred against performance targets I'd be biting Exeter's hands off. Is it cast-iron? No, but what signing is? As for Bogle, the only real clamour I recall was when he scored 3 or so goals in his first few games and a bunch of folk used that as an excuse to berate the club for not signing him. The real interest in the last couple of windows was focussed on players like Lansbury, Kodija, Hourihane, Wildschut and Rhodes, none of whom have torn up any trees despite all being 'proven' and all all of whom went for big money. When I post about Derby fans it's not just this forum, the fanbase stretches much wider than this tiny corner of the web. Omar Bogle was a player very much in demand on both Twitter and Facebook. Also you are right, scouts are tipped off by word of mouth and without any inside knowledge by gut feeling isn't that they don't watch a 2 minute video on YouTube then demand the manager signs him. This MAY happen, Jim Smith having signed Wanchope after watching a VHS. I do however have major doubts this is the norm, I remember sat at Moor Farm, the shock around the table at the idea Paul Clement would use YouTube himself, not get out there and watch games. Whilst I will never knock anyone for suggesting a player they could have barely seen, when it turns into a huge mass outcry for this player, posts of anger and frustration that more rumours have now ruled us out I find it all a little over the top and ridiculous. And if you move away from the talent on the pitch, if anyone has listened to Rowett talk recently you would have heard him talk about bringing in players with the right mentality, winners, early to training and late leaving. Does anyone know Watkins personally? Do we know how he would fit in the dressing room? Whats his family situation like, is the young bloke going to suffer any home sickness, will he get a nose bleed if he ventures further North than London? Tom Ince is widely regarded to have a attitude problem by Derby fans, so I'm guessing they have links inside of the club that are feeding them this info, maybe they have put feelers out to their ITK sources to check on him personally and which is why we are seeing a huge demand for this kid. Again I have major doubts. IF Derby decide to sign him great, I just hope it's been done with better due diligence than we have seen in recent seasons, and this applies to all signings we make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 5/19/2017 at 21:38, plymouthram said: Who are these players that are 22/23 in the top 6 sides that want to come to Derby because they are restless. The first thing you have got to consider, do they want to drop down a league, could we pay their wages and would they be a success having convinced them to come and also pay top dollar for them. Many of those players you don't pay a lot for - There are plenty of examples over the years - I guess one of the most recent being Michael Keane - But could also quote Tom Lawrence who obviously wasn't ready for the Prem (yet), Scott Wooten at Leeds, Ryan Tunicliffe at Fulham and that's just a couple of ex-Man Utd kids from the first web search... And then we could probably get on to the Leicester squad that won the Championship? Drinkwater, De Laet and Matty James all signed for them from Man Utd and Danny Simpson signed for then championship Newcastle from Man Utd Also add Tom Heaton at Burnley, Josh King at (now) Bournemouth, Oliver Norwood at Reading, Robbie Brady at (now) Norwich I could probably keep going with the other sides but I think there are some decent examples there. On 5/19/2017 at 21:38, plymouthram said: Would they be hungry and keen to improve coming from a premier league club compared with a lower league player (who would be cheaper). And if he didn't improve at a higher standard of training and surrounded by better players, then that would be the only way the gamble would not pay off. My point is (and always has been) that a former Premier League youth player is LESS of a gamble than lower league players - Yes there are a few gems down there that could potentially make the step up but they are few and far between - The calibre of player coming out of top academies is much higher and you're much less likely to be taking a risk on one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 6 hours ago, David said: When I post about Derby fans it's not just this forum, the fanbase stretches much wider than this tiny corner of the web. Omar Bogle was a player very much in demand on both Twitter and Facebook. Also you are right, scouts are tipped off by word of mouth and without any inside knowledge by gut feeling isn't that they don't watch a 2 minute video on YouTube then demand the manager signs him. This MAY happen, Jim Smith having signed Wanchope after watching a VHS. I do however have major doubts this is the norm, I remember sat at Moor Farm, the shock around the table at the idea Paul Clement would use YouTube himself, not get out there and watch games. Whilst I will never knock anyone for suggesting a player they could have barely seen, when it turns into a huge mass outcry for this player, posts of anger and frustration that more rumours have now ruled us out I find it all a little over the top and ridiculous. And if you move away from the talent on the pitch, if anyone has listened to Rowett talk recently you would have heard him talk about bringing in players with the right mentality, winners, early to training and late leaving. Does anyone know Watkins personally? Do we know how he would fit in the dressing room? Whats his family situation like, is the young bloke going to suffer any home sickness, will he get a nose bleed if he ventures further North than London? Tom Ince is widely regarded to have a attitude problem by Derby fans, so I'm guessing they have links inside of the club that are feeding them this info, maybe they have put feelers out to their ITK sources to check on him personally and which is why we are seeing a huge demand for this kid. Again I have major doubts. IF Derby decide to sign him great, I just hope it's been done with better due diligence than we have seen in recent seasons, and this applies to all signings we make. Fair comment David - I guess what I was alluding to is that it's the transfer forum so it's only natural that folk voice what are, bar the very few, uninformed opinions. There'd be zero content otherwise. For my part, I'd love to see this kid play for Derby but as you say, there's no due diligence behind my thinking. This said, you won't find me wailing into my cornflakes should he not sign - we all need to trust the scouting and recruitment teams at the club whatever our opinions are on past performance. Hopefully, if Watkins is no longer on the club's radar, as the DET would have us believe, we have some interesting alternatives lined up that are in keeping with GR's stated demographics. I think as a word-bite, what he's said makes sense so it'll be interesting to see whether this philosophy translates to progress on the pitch. As for the in-depth knowledge of a player's psyche and how he'll integrate, for my part, it's a 'suck it and see scenario' - I don't think you can ever truly be sure until it's all good or not, much like hiring new employees in any walk of life. Nor do I think any of us can be certain of how we (or anyone else) will react to new surroundings but rather we trust our instincts, to a degree at least. Death and taxes and all that.... Without being in any way contrary, and based on the admittedly limited visual evidence, are you not at all excited by this lad? He reminds me a great deal of our own Thomas Ince which is, I suppose, why I think he's worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, 86 points said: Fair comment David - I guess what I was alluding to is that it's the transfer forum so it's only natural that folk voice what are bar the very few, uninformed opinions. There'd be zero content otherwise. For my part, I'd love to see this kid play for Derby but as you say, there's no due diligence behind my thinking. This said, you won't find me wailing into my cornflakes should he not sign - Trust me, I could have a field day in the suggestion thread but I'm not here to be the Scrooge that tells the kids Santa isn't real. Transfer talk is the reason why everyone sticks around in the summer so I do a lot of tongue biting. My weak spot has been found in this topic due to the volume of posts for this kid, when you see the clubs scouting department and ambition being questioned can't help but jump in, not to defend the club but find out where this knowledge of the player has come from. I don't mean to be an arse, more of a calm down calm down let's start from the beginning. We had another one recently as well as Bogle, Hourihane. Sage and another member first mentioned him, may have been Ambitious back in August. Wasn't until we closed in on January and the mass hysteria kicked in for him. Whilst that bored me to near tears with Sky Sports and the FLS people would have seen plenty of him unlike Watkins. Again as I said a few posts back, some fans may live local to Exeter and seen Watkins plenty, I saw Bogle, I just don't believe that number will be that high. I guess it's the Internet, with stats so readily available and social media, YouTube, players can get hyped so quickly. 3 minutes ago, 86 points said: As for the in-depth knowledge of a player's psyche and how he'll integrate, for my part, it's a 'suck it and see scenario' - I don't think you can ever truly be sure until it's all good or not, much like hiring new employees in any walk of life. Nor do I think any of us can be certain of how we (or anyone else) will react to new surroundings but rather we trust our instincts, to a degree at least. Death and taxes and all that.... This is a card I dont like to play and save for extreme situations like this, had it been a Premier League or Championship player one that I would never had played. Saying that it is a huge factor when making a signing, like to think there's more to it than suck it and see, scouts, agents, coaches, managers, players, put the feelers out just to see what the players like. Obviously you have no way of knowing what he would be like for sure, it is worth noting the risks of a player moving abroad for the first time or away from home. Born and played on the South Coast, 21 years old would be a big move and step up. Dele Alli has been spoke about in this topic, born in Milton Keynes, not a huge move to London. Player needs to be happy off the pitch to see the best of him on. Think it is something worth considering. 3 minutes ago, 86 points said: Without being in any way contrary, based on the admittedly limited visual evidence, are you not at all excited by this lad? He reminds me a great deal of our own Thomas Ince which is, I suppose, why I think he's worth a look. I'm not personally as I haven't seen a single second of him, not even a Twitter gif. If the rumours strengthened and was looking like a possible target I would take a look, we're going to be linked with so many players this summer, just to fill column space. Don't tend to look into players I've not seen or heard of until it starts to look quite serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think we are crying out for a new hero. Sure, we've had good players but in my opinion no-one who set the pulse racing. In two years' time he could be Dele Alli - or he could be working at Ali's Deli. We want him to be the saviour and won't let cold facts in the way of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 30 minutes ago, David said: Trust me, I could have a field day in the suggestion thread but I'm not here to be the Scrooge that tells the kids Santa isn't real. Transfer talk is the reason why everyone sticks around in the summer so I do a lot of tongue biting. My weak spot has been found in this topic due to the volume of posts for this kid, when you see the clubs scouting department and ambition being questioned can't help but jump in, not to defend the club but find out where this knowledge of the player has come from. I don't mean to be an arse, more of a calm down calm down let's start from the beginning. We had another one recently as well as Bogle, Hourihane. Sage and another member first mentioned him, may have been Ambitious back in August. Wasn't until we closed in on January and the mass hysteria kicked in for him. Whilst that bored me to near tears with Sky Sports and the FLS people would have seen plenty of him unlike Watkins. Again as I said a few posts back, some fans may live local to Exeter and seen Watkins plenty, I saw Bogle, I just don't believe that number will be that high. I guess it's the Internet, with stats so readily available and social media, YouTube, players can get hyped so quickly. This is a card I dont like to play and save for extreme situations like this, had it been a Premier League or Championship player one that I would never had played. Saying that it is a huge factor when making a signing, like to think there's more to it than suck it and see, scouts, agents, coaches, managers, players, put the feelers out just to see what the players like. Obviously you have no way of knowing what he would be like for sure, it is worth noting the risks of a player moving abroad for the first time or away from home. Born and played on the South Coast, 21 years old would be a big move and step up. Dele Alli has been spoke about in this topic, born in Milton Keynes, not a huge move to London. Player needs to be happy off the pitch to see the best of him on. Think it is something worth considering. I'm not personally as I haven't seen a single second of him, not even a Twitter gif. If the rumours strengthened and was looking like a possible target I would take a look, we're going to be linked with so many players this summer, just to fill column space. Don't tend to look into players I've not seen or heard of until it starts to look quite serious. Fair shout David - I really wanted Hourihane at the club so what do I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, 86 points said: Fair shout David - I really wanted Hourihane at the club so what do I know! Reported to be on 40k pw at Villa, good player but that's a lot of money for a decent half a season at this level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, David said: Reported to be on 40k pw at Villa, good player but that's a lot of money for a decent half a season at this level Which makes it a slight relief knowing we only offered Nick Blackman 28k a week (or whatever it really is) after 3 good months in the championship. It could have been 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 19:40, reveldevil said: If we don't sign this lad, it will show how far down we've fallen that we can't beat other teams to the punch on such an obvious talent. If we do sign him, it will show how far down we've fallen that we have to resort to the bargain basement unproven League 2 players. This post been mentioned on Exeter Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 hours ago, David said: Reported to be on 40k pw at Villa, good player but that's a lot of money for a decent half a season at this level Eye-watering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Anag Ram said: I think we are crying out for a new hero. Sure, we've had good players but in my opinion no-one who set the pulse racing. In two years' time he could be Dele Alli - or he could be working at Ali's Deli. We want him to be the saviour and won't let cold facts in the way of that. Very, very good! This is why you're called Anagram, splendid post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 How does anyone know these salaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: How does anyone know these salaries? Football Manager SP and football manager is never wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I made a boo boo. Was Lansbury who is on a reported 40k, Hourihane 28k, no video games here! http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/report-aston-villa-quadruple-conor-12456987 http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/henri-lansbury-nottingham-forest-expert-12479503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: This post been mentioned on Exeter Forum. Couldn't see, maybe through the tears reading they should hold out for £6m upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, David said: I made a boo boo. Was Lansbury who is on a reported 40k, Hourihane 28k, no video games here! http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/report-aston-villa-quadruple-conor-12456987 http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/henri-lansbury-nottingham-forest-expert-12479503 You don't believe all that rubbish do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: You don't believe all that rubbish do you? Depends if I'm riding my Unicorn or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsiboy Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 2017-5-21 at 10:58, DCFC1388 said: Todays paper says Exeter want £4m with half of it upfront with us and Sheff Utd interested but unsure about spending so much on a League 2 player. Id say 1.5m plus addons would get him Well you'd be wrong I'm afraid. The real bidding will start at 2.5m or more. Any hopes of signing him for anything less than that is nothing more than wishful thinking. If the club's decision makers agree with you, he'll be off elsewhere. 18 hours ago, RamNut said: Judging by the videos Watkins lacks pace. i hate to say it but he reminded me of....deon burton. Therefore not fussed. Hahaha! Lacks pace, yeah sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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