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Russell and Butterfield need replacing?


FolkStar85
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In my opinion Russell and Butterfield were clueless on Saturday and have been for most of the season.

Is it time to replace them with new signings?

Lansbury and sahko maybe?

Don't like to focus on individual players but I see the link up between Hughes and Ince on the right being far superior to that on the left. 

Imagine improved left hand side plus a target / wardrobe kind of centre forward?

Could we then challenge for top two?

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Short answer to your question I'd love both Lansbury and Sako here. Will give a longer answer later, late night last night so feeling the effects of it now :lol:, although I did give the reasons for us signing Lansbury in the transfer section somewhere. We need more of a goal threat on both the left wing and midfield because we can't keep expecting Ince to perform every game. Think we need another striker too, don't think Bent is the man to help us go up at his age. Maybe a Bent of 4-5 years ago but not now

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Butterfield does a lot of good work that often goes unnoticed. Russell admittedly has been not up to his usual standard for chunks of this season but still puts in the effort.

It's a difficult one.

One thing is for sure though is that both should be scoring more goals and need to start pretty soon.

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Everybody bar the defence we're clueless if people are honest and these fixtures over Christmas are spaced very close together and our players did look jaded.

long term we shouldn't have both Hughes and butterfield in the side (unless that is all that is available) 

russell provides a lot and it is no coincidence that it is he who makes the half chances for others currently or it is him who gets on the end of other half chances, bar Ince no one else is actually doing that in my opinion, rest him by all means but do not throw him away.

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Thought Hughes and Butterfield were about the same tbh. Both poor.

I don't agree both have been clueless all season. 

I don't like this idea that we seek out the players in the team that are playing the weakest (there will always be these players because not everyone will be in the same form at the same time) and we proper get stuck into them.

It can't be that a player is just ticking along. A player is just steady. They have to be clueless or crap or the classic "bang average"

You take Butters and Russell out, replace them with in form players and then the weakest performer would probably be Bent and Baird? Then they'd be clueless clowns. Change them and it would be Pearce for his passing. 

See what I'm getting at? There will always be a weakest player both in form and then in ability. And that weakest player will always be a complete donkey. 

I've argued against the Russell love for years. I have never been his biggest fan even back when he was running the ball out of play to a huge applause for effort. I didn't rate him that much when he smashed the ball from range vs Forest. But he's never been a let down. He has the same weakness he's always had and he's always gone on little runs of form when he's buzzing followed by fairly long periods of graft but little quality

He's never changed. He is the exact same player that he has been since arrival. He's never been rubbish and he isn't rubbish now. 

It's just when you get a lot of players in good form that the most out of form players get slaughtered. And Russell hasn't found his buzz during this spell. 

First negative result and he gets murdered. 

It's been a team effort over this run. Whether that be Butters v Rotherham or Russell digging in against Sheff Wed. 

A few weeks ago we were debating Hughes. 

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I would actually say that Russell wasn't clueless yesterday,he made no mistakes other than just missing the shot that he got himself into position admirably for....

Butterfield on the other hand,made another set of careless mistakes with poorly placed passes going straight to the opposition and his long balls weren't much better either,Baird's efforts were by comparison,laser accurate.

I personally think that shakell will take over from butters the next game as Jacob seems to be one of the few players that hasn't improved during macs current reign and I'm mystified as to the reasons for that.

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I am sure that Mac and co will always be looking to improve us and if he sees those two players as ones we could get upgrades on, then fair enough. I like JR when he's on form but have to admit he's not quite hit the heights yet this term. Butters is my favourite player along with Hughes. I like technical footballers who look after the ball and play for the team. I happen to think he's added more to his game this season but at the same time we've lost his goals from midfield. Goals that won us games last season. And Will doesn't really offer them either. So I can see why some feel we don't need both Will and Jacob in the same team. But I certainly wouldn't be casting either of them aside. 

 

Lansbury is not an upgrade on Butterfield so it'd need to be someone else to convince me.

 

Up front is the issue for me and has been since Pearson arrived. Every top club needs a frequent scoring striker. But in this system, if the striker isn't scoring they have to be offering more than Bent or Vydra deliver. 

 

But in general, I'm more than happy with the squad we have and feel we will make the playoffs with the players already here. Not sure the potential signings being mentioned will get us automatic promotion. 

 

Just my thoughts.

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So clueless may have been a bit harsh but I deffo think we need a upgrade on both players. They'd be great squad players and Russell could cover left and right wing and a great option off the bench. Butterfield can cover both midfield postions. Just think we don't get enough end product from the two of them in terms of goals and assists.

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2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I would actually say that Russell wasn't clueless yesterday,he made no mistakes other than just missing the shot that he got himself into position admirably for....

Butterfield on the other hand,made another set of careless mistakes with poorly placed passes going straight to the opposition and his long balls weren't much better either,Baird's efforts were by comparison,laser accurate.

I personally think that shakell will take over from butters the next game as Jacob seems to be one of the few players that hasn't improved during macs current reign and I'm mystified as to the reasons for that.

Shackell in midfield? Over Butterfield who has started every game under Mac? Yep. I look forward to that. 

Butterfield had 92% pass accuracy yesterday. It was Hughes gifting Wigan possession.

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Why is Lansbury any better than what we have? All you lot are all getting giddy over Lansbury because 'he'll support the striker and score goals.' He's scored 6 goals, 2 of which were penalties and 3 of which all game within one game, hardly prolific. And last season he managed 4 goals. We signed Blackman off the back of a good few months and now most want him gone.

I can understand the left wing suggestions but we currently have about 5, so until any of them leave I'm pretty certain we won't bring in any more. As for Sako, he seems the player most are wanting for that spot, why do you all assume a bloke who's barely played in 6 months and has scored just 2 in 18 months + will magically regain his form of the 14/15 season? Yet most of you don't trust Russell to regain his form from last season. 

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1 minute ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Shackell in midfield? Over Butterfield who has started every game under Mac? Yep. I look forward to that. 

Butterfield had 92% pass accuracy yesterday. It was Hughes gifting Wigan possession.

Hughes was pretty poor wasn't he but butters also gifted them..

Not really hyper critical of anyone in the squad yesterday to be honest,Wigan set up to frustrate us and  succeeded and the whole team were left looking off form as a result.

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20 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Thought Hughes and Butterfield were about the same tbh. Both poor.

I don't agree both have been clueless all season. 

I don't like this idea that we seek out the players in the team that are playing the weakest (there will always be these players because not everyone will be in the same form at the same time) and we proper get stuck into them.

It can't be that a player is just ticking along. A player is just steady. They have to be clueless or crap or the classic "bang average"

You take Butters and Russell out, replace them with in form players and then the weakest performer would probably be Bent and Baird? Then they'd be clueless clowns. Change them and it would be Pearce for his passing. 

See what I'm getting at? There will always be a weakest player both in form and then in ability. And that weakest player will always be a complete donkey. 

I've argued against the Russell love for years. I have never been his biggest fan even back when he was running the ball out of play to a huge applause for effort. I didn't rate him that much when he smashed the ball from range vs Forest. But he's never been a let down. He has the same weakness he's always had and he's always gone on little runs of form when he's buzzing followed by fairly long periods of graft but little quality

He's never changed. He is the exact same player that he has been since arrival. He's never been rubbish and he isn't rubbish now. 

It's just when you get a lot of players in good form that the most out of form players get slaughtered. And Russell hasn't found his buzz during this spell. 

First negative result and he gets murdered. 

It's been a team effort over this run. Whether that be Butters v Rotherham or Russell digging in against Sheff Wed. 

A few weeks ago we were debating Hughes. 

 I get your point Alpha but on this one, if we were not the joint third lowest scorers in the league we wouldn't really be focussing on any of the weaker players in much detail. Quite simply, only Ince looks like scoring. I don't feel like any of the other attacking five go into the game and I think they will Nick one today.

I will be amazed if we only concede another 15 all season so if we want playoffs we need to win some games 2-1, 3-2 and for that, we need better offensive production. 

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8 minutes ago, EastHertsRam said:

I read last night Watford are thinking of going in a bid for Lansbury, could be rubbish of course but if there is any truth in it, it would be difficult for us to compete with the lure of the premier league.

Watching them atm, that lure might not be for much longer!

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1 hour ago, FolkStar85 said:

In my opinion Russell and Butterfield were clueless on Saturday and have been for most of the season.

Is it time to replace them with new signings?

Lansbury and sahko maybe?

Don't like to focus on individual players but I see the link up between Hughes and Ince on the right being far superior to that on the left. 

Imagine improved left hand side plus a target / wardrobe kind of centre forward?

Could we then challenge for top two?

So you don't like to single out players yet refer to them as 'clueless'.

Obviously they are two of our weakest 4 players with Olsson and Bent/Vydra and we will look to improve the team in those areas. 

But clueless? Where does that leave Weimann, Camara and Blackman? As even an out of form Russell is vetter than them. 

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