Clough and Burton

[ronnieronalde]

15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

He could talk about football?

 

He does talk about football. Strangely though it's those soundbite look at him whinging lines that are posted and not the whole interview.

[Day]

Ronnie, do you not agree that as a player hearing your manager whine at the end of every single game that the players are not good enough is bad for morale?

It’s not that he’s wrong it’s that he should be trying to lift the players, making them believe they are good enough. Confidence goes a long way in football.

How can you expect fans to turn up when pre match conferences already sound like a defeat, got no chance?

It’s not a one off, wrong side of the bed in the morning it’s every game. I don’t understand his thinking, what he thinks it will achieve, some kind of reaction from the players to prove him wrong?

Could learn a thing or two from the bloke that knee’d him at PP, that squad which he took up to the Premier League wasn’t good enough, they had no right to be there but we was as Billy drilled it into them that they were good enough, they could do it.

[bcnram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Ronnie, do you not agree that as a player hearing your manager whine at the end of every single game that the players are not good enough is bad for morale?

It’s not that he’s wrong it’s that he should be trying to lift the players, making them believe they are good enough. Confidence goes a long way in football.

How can you expect fans to turn up when pre match conferences already sound like a defeat, got no chance?

It’s not a one off, wrong side of the bed in the morning it’s every game. I don’t understand his thinking, what he thinks it will achieve, some kind of reaction from the players to prove him wrong?

Could learn a thing or two from the bloke that knee’d him at PP, that squad which he took up to the Premier League wasn’t good enough, they had no right to be there but we was as Billy drilled it into them that they were good enough, they could do it.

I am pretty sure that what he says to the press and what he says to the players will be two different things. In a way he is taking the pressure off the players to the media not putting it on them. To be honest what he says is correct, they have the lowest playing budget by a long, long way which is going to make it difficult to compete (as Sage eloquently said).

[Day]

Just now, bcnram said:

I am pretty sure that what he says to the press and what he says to the players will be two different things. In a way he is taking the pressure off the players to the media not putting it on them. To be honest what he says is correct, they have the lowest playing budget by a long, long way which is going to make it difficult to compete (as Sage eloquently said).

Ok, assuming he's told the players to completely ignore what he says in the press, the fans, those paying to get in, how does it motivate those to come through the gates to get behind the team? It's this money that will help fund signings he can make to improve the side.

Like I said he is right, 100% correct no disputing that, but I fail to see how bringing up before and after every game benefits anyone.

When my missus asks does her bum look big in this, speaking the truth would do me no favours at all. Yes dear you look great....

[ronnieronalde]

13 minutes ago, David said:

Ronnie, do you not agree that as a player hearing your manager whine at the end of every single game that the players are not good enough is bad for morale?

It’s not that he’s wrong it’s that he should be trying to lift the players, making them believe they are good enough. Confidence goes a long way in football.

How can you expect fans to turn up when pre match conferences already sound like a defeat, got no chance?

It’s not a one off, wrong side of the bed in the morning it’s every game. I don’t understand his thinking, what he thinks it will achieve, some kind of reaction from the players to prove him wrong?

Could learn a thing or two from the bloke that knee’d him at PP, that squad which he took up to the Premier League wasn’t good enough, they had no right to be there but we was as Billy drilled it into them that they were good enough, they could do it.

I don't think the pre match interviews are negative David, he usually says we're going for the win, knows it will be tough but....

Post match, I think he's trying to protect his players from taking a hammering really. I do wish sometimes he had more bravado and went out with a "we're going to smash you all over the park" attitude but if he did that he'd get labelled a delusional clown.

I think at the moment he recognises we're further behind that even he probably wants to admit. I don't know what the answer is really I just know that if you ask players to do what they can't do then it destroys them, if you ask them to give their all, they give it and its still not good enough, then you can't destroy them for it, which the fans are more than willing to do.

You can't compare Billy Davies's Derby with Nigel Clough's Burton Albion David, really you can't. Derby were never minnows.

He hasn't given up, the players haven't given up but surely they can't be hammered for losing games they should be losing, it's just not fair. All of this they should be doing better ******** is people deciding they want to ignore reality. Reality is Burton Albion are way behind every other club in the championship, all that is happening is reality is bearing out.

[Day]

7 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I don't think the pre match interviews are negative David, he usually says we're going for the win, knows it will be tough but....

Post match, I think he's trying to protect his players from taking a hammering really. I do wish sometimes he had more bravado and went out with a "we're going to smash you all over the park" attitude but if he did that he'd get labelled a delusional clown.

I think at the moment he recognises we're further behind that even he probably wants to admit. I don't know what the answer is really I just know that if you ask players to do what they can't do then it destroys them, if you ask them to give their all, they give it and its still not good enough, then you can't destroy them for it, which the fans are more than willing to do.

You can't compare Billy Davies's Derby with Nigel Clough's Burton Albion David, really you can't. Derby were never minnows.

He hasn't given up, the players haven't given up but surely they can't be hammered for losing games they should be losing, it's just not fair. All of this they should be doing better ******** is people deciding they want to ignore reality. Reality is Burton Albion are way behind every other club in the championship, all that is happening is reality is bearing out.

I think it's possible to find some middle ground between delusional clown and a demotivating broken record, wouldn't expect to hear him talk about smashing Wolves or talking about the money they have spent in the summer. Burton fans are no fools, they will be well aware of the gulf in class, finances, resources to the rest of the league. 

The Billy Davies and Derby thing isn't the same but the point I was making is the belief that he instilled in the side that they can do this, I'm sure Ranieri did the same at Leicester.

Maybe this method only works for a season, as you say all this is reality bearing out. 

[TigerTedd]

10 hours ago, David said:

I think it's possible to find some middle ground between delusional clown and a demotivating broken record, wouldn't expect to hear him talk about smashing Wolves or talking about the money they have spent in the summer. Burton fans are no fools, they will be well aware of the gulf in class, finances, resources to the rest of the league. 

The Billy Davies and Derby thing isn't the same but the point I was making is the belief that he instilled in the side that they can do this, I'm sure Ranieri did the same at Leicester.

Maybe this method only works for a season, as you say all this is reality bearing out. 

Really?

I was going to mention Leicester. It’s like how they expected to instantly become contenders after one season where the stars aligned for them. When you come crashing back down to your level, it’s painful. 

[TigerTedd]

It occurs to me that every game burton play at the minute must be like the 3rd round of the fa cup for them.

if they treat it like that, then teams will normally cause an upset and beat a better team every 3 or 4 seasons. So it’s not crazy to think they might win every 3 or 4 matches. And that could be enough to keep them safe. 

For all the stuff about clough making excuses and being a broken record about budgets, it’s a fair consensus that he did a great job last season to keep them up. And odds are that’s a one season thing, and no one can expect anything more.

but they’re safe at the half way stage. Who’s have thought it a couple of games ago when they were nearly adrift. 

Can he keep them 4th from bottom? And if they do, will they actually do anything to raise their ambitions? 

[Dimmu]

Their home form really needs to improve. 7 points from home games are simply not enough. Away form is midtable.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Dimmu said:

Their home form really needs to improve. 7 points from home games are simply not enough. Away form is midtable.

That’s the thing though, they don’t neee to be mid table, just 4th from bottom. So a reasonable away form and a crappy home form could be enough to achieve that. Point is, they’re picking up just enough points to be in contention for survival, they’re not being cut adrift, so they’re giving themselves a chance. 

[G STAR RAM]

Fair play to NC, I'll be honest, I thought they were dead and buried but they've come back out fighting. 

@ronnieronalde why is there such disparity between their home and away results? 

[Sparkle]

I had them down for a draw yesterday with derby winning Bolton winning and qpr drawing with Bristol city - cost me about £350 - £400 

and when you see the winning goal it makes you think that the Reading goalkeeper works for skybet 

[McRamFan]

Hope they stay in the division, nice to see a club overachieving.

[ronnieronalde]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Fair play to NC, I'll be honest, I thought they were dead and buried but they've come back out fighting. 

@ronnieronalde why is there such disparity between their home and away results? 

Prior to Bolton and Reading I'd have said it was purely down to being expected to sit back and hot on the counter. 

We were setting up with 5 at the back and sometimes 3 in front of them and attacking when we could. It was worth a point and we might even nick it with a moment of quality.

the last two games have been slightly different, we've gone to a solid back four NC has made 3 or 4 seemingly astute changes bringing in naylor and miller in midfield (miller is 19 or 19 on loan from spurs ).

Thry both close down for fun. We've then get dyer skins and Murphy who are all incredibly hard grafters as well.

hes dropped mcfadzean and warnock who although experienced were gifting goals and since then Buxton and turner have looked good together.

 

probsbly the biggest single changevthough is the Bray has come back in and played well. He gives the rest of the team a huge lift.

 

weve played well looked very solid and of course have had a couple of fairly large slices of luck.

ice said all along we're a striker away from being ok. Huge 6 points and two really wonderful games to go to.

i enjoyed Saturdays effort so much I drove back to the Pirelli to say thanks to the players after they got off the bus. Their honesty and effort really is a joy to watch.

its going to be a scary ride and we may end up not being good enough but already it's been one hell of an experience.

[RadioactiveWaste]

5 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Hope they stay in the division, nice to see a club overachieving.

Was this meant for the forest thread?

No....?

Good

[Sith Happens]

1-0 up at half time, hope they can hang on to that, be a cracking win.

[ronnieronalde]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

1-0 up at half time, hope they can hang on to that, be a cracking win.

I came away from the game disappointed.

 

thought some of Leeds gamesmanship (cheating!?) pushed the boundaries somewhat. The Vieira recovery being a case in point although to be fair it looked a bad challenge from Tom Naylor who was probsbly lucky the ref had turned his back.

Also thought Alioski constantly dove, roofe cheated and a stronger ref would have clamped down on it.

i rarely blame the ref but thought he missed quite a bit of the niggly stuff.

 

stupid challenge from Tom Flanagan for the free kick and burton lost the plot for 5 minutes which cost them a point.

 

the 2 chances at 1-0, we've got to score one of them then it's a different game.

not seen the highlights but from where I was sitting we had an unbelievable chance to nick a point, I hope it wasn't as bad a miss as it looked live.

 

still a cracking Christmas overall, we've put ourselves back in the mix. Brilliant.

[mozza]

If i was a ref and a substituted player came over to shake my hand i'd look at my watch and book him for time wasting 

[Sith Happens]

3 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

I came away from the game disappointed.

 

thought some of Leeds gamesmanship (cheating!?) pushed the boundaries somewhat. The Vieira recovery being a case in point although to be fair it looked a bad challenge from Tom Naylor who was probsbly lucky the ref had turned his back.

Also thought Alioski constantly dove, roofe cheated and a stronger ref would have clamped down on it.

i rarely blame the ref but thought he missed quite a bit of the niggly stuff.

 

stupid challenge from Tom Flanagan for the free kick and burton lost the plot for 5 minutes which cost them a point.

 

the 2 chances at 1-0, we've got to score one of them then it's a different game.

not seen the highlights but from where I was sitting we had an unbelievable chance to nick a point, I hope it wasn't as bad a miss as it looked live.

 

still a cracking Christmas overall, we've put ourselves back in the mix. Brilliant.

Big shame, put my foot in it with my half time comment. 

[Day]