ronnieronalde Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Just seems a completely defeatist attitude though. In year one yes it's understandable but having shown they could hold their own they should have looked to kick on. Speculate to accumulate and all that. To charge people £460 to watch you try and keep your head above water and not expect them to hope for me I can't really understand. It's these fans that the club will be relying on should they get relegated. They made a million quid profit last season G Star, what difference would that have made to finishing position if they'd invested that in players we'll never know. Lets say they speculate to accumulate, how much would you say is speculating for a team like Burton? A couple of million quid maybe? Then it doesn't keep them up, they're now 2 million quid in debt, in league one with gates falling back down to 3k, unless they;'re top 6 all season those gates would be below 2.5k within a season. It's too much of a mid-long term risk to put the club in debt, especially having seen there is seemingly no appetite for a championship club in Burton. If they'd have been selling out week in week out and the demand for tickets were growing then by all means go for it, as it is the crowds are going in the other direction even though we're arguably playing bigger sides than least season (sunderland, boro and Hull replacing Newcastle, Brighton and Huddersfield, Sheff Utd, Millwall and Bolton replacing Wigan, Rotherham and Bolton). There was ambition, there was talk of extending the ground, of putting up temporary seating to cater for the bigger games, so far there's been no need to even consider that. Ambition is OK but the fans need to be ambitious as well otherwise it's chucking money away for the sake of it and it would 100% put the future of the club on a weaker footing if the gamble didn't pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: They made a million quid profit last season G Star, what difference would that have made to finishing position if they'd invested that in players we'll never know. Lets say they speculate to accumulate, how much would you say is speculating for a team like Burton? A couple of million quid maybe? Then it doesn't keep them up, they're now 2 million quid in debt, in league one with gates falling back down to 3k, unless they;'re top 6 all season those gates would be below 2.5k within a season. It's too much of a mid-long term risk to put the club in debt, especially having seen there is seemingly no appetite for a championship club in Burton. If they'd have been selling out week in week out and the demand for tickets were growing then by all means go for it, as it is the crowds are going in the other direction even though we're arguably playing bigger sides than least season (sunderland, boro and Hull replacing Newcastle, Brighton and Huddersfield, Sheff Utd, Millwall and Bolton replacing Wigan, Rotherham and Bolton). There was ambition, there was talk of extending the ground, of putting up temporary seating to cater for the bigger games, so far there's been no need to even consider that. Ambition is OK but the fans need to be ambitious as well otherwise it's chucking money away for the sake of it and it would 100% put the future of the club on a weaker footing if the gamble didn't pay off. I would say paying £460 a year is showing ambition from the current fans. It's only by attracting new fans that the club will progress and I don't see how they expect their current stance to do that. Ben Robinson really needs to be looking for outside investment if he has taken the club as far as possible within his own budget. Putting money into to the club does mean putting the club in debt if you get the right people on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-championship-2017-2018/1/ I think this does highlight what Burton are up against. I know there are those who say he goes on and on about budget, but look at that table. Brentford are almost twice the size, then the nearest club has almost 3 times the number of fans turning up for games. When you think that most of the clubs are fairly well established at this level and a number have either parachute payments or wealthy backers, then it's clear the gulf is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 12 hours ago, ronnieronalde said: All seater ready for the 3rd season I think paul71. If we stay up it's got to be done this year. Which is so stupid it's not true. 4800 there yesterday of which probably 2000 were Sunderland fans. Absolutely no need whatsoever to convert the Pirelli to an all seater and will be nothing but a burden to the club. It's heart breaking to see the apathy with which the Burton public and "floating" fan base have reacted to this season (even last to be fair) If we can only get 4800 at home to Sunderland we might as well give up our championship spot right now. Ben must be absolutely gutted and to be fair the longer we stay in the bottom 3 the worse it's going to get... doesn't seem like a large portion of Brewer fans don't have the heart or the stomach for a relegation battle, they've only ever known good times and they're not reacting well to losing games regularly, they don't care that it's against clubs they could only have dreamt of getting if we reached round 3 of the cup week in week out. The Burton Boys booed their team off the pitch on Saturday, booed off for losing to Sunderland. Blimey O'Reilly they're off their rockers. 11 hours ago, ronnieronalde said: I'd imagine it''ll be cut to around 6500, the loss of capacity probably offset by the fact we can charge away fans more for sitting down. The attendances this season really have been a joke. I've seen fans say they're not bothering cos it's only Fulham. Fans are really spoiling the experience more than the poor results. We/They should be enjoying these times playing at this level cos it won't last forever and it might not come around again in my lifetime. Instead they're booing their own players and making matches toxic just cos the lads aren't good enough to be comfortably out of the bottom 3. Heart breaking to hear 4800 announced on Saturday, even worse to hear a lot of them booing at the end. I don't want to label us a tinpot mickey mouse club or anything like that, but ffs we ARE Burton Albion, we ARE playing at a level above anything anyone could ever have expected and STILL it's not good enough for the fans who want the manager fired for destroying the club.... you couldn't make it up if you tried. Agree with you here. I used to have a soft spot for BAFC but, living in Burton and being the only Derby fan in a group of Burton-supporting mates, I'd love to see them go down to be honest. The amount of stick I've had to endure in recent years as Derby failed to get promoted and Burton soared up the leagues is ridiculous, and the fact that they sing songs about us now is laughable, as the majority of Derby fans (me not included) couldn't give a **** about them. I find it quite funny seeing them all become disillusioned with the club and Clough now, not least because I've always said their expectations would become too high after years of incredible success. They seem to have grown a sense of entitlement, especially among those who are my age. I really respect the job Clough did at Derby, and I think he's done a fantastic job at Burton to keep them fighting in the Championship. He also seems like an honourable bloke. However, I wouldn't mind if he went because of the comments he made about us trying to "buy" success. You could say that he's not wrong (although I could spend hours arguing against the notion that only select teams try to "buy" success) but, due to my tribal-like support for Derby, I lost a bit of respect for him after he said it (irrational I know). I feel for those who are die-hard fans and will support Burton no matter what but, to be honest, I think that they have a much higher proportion of bandwagon-jumpers, casual fans and general t**** than any other team I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-championship-2017-2018/1/ I think this does highlight what Burton are up against. I know there are those who say he goes on and on about budget, but look at that table. Brentford are almost twice the size, then the nearest club has almost 3 times the number of fans turning up for games. When you think that most of the clubs are fairly well established at this level and a number have either parachute payments or wealthy backers, then it's clear the gulf is huge. Everyone knows about the gulf, it's just a bit tedious talking about it so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Everyone knows about the gulf, it's just a bit tedious talking about it so often. It’s only before and after every single match and press conference. You would forget without the reminders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I hope clough goes to a club with loads of money to spend next, then he can show people how he can cope on the other end of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, David said: It’s only before and after every single match and press conference. You would forget without the reminders Never heard any of his press conferences at Shefield United but I'm pretty sure they would have been saying how they should walk the league due to their budget and attendances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Boycie said: I hope clough goes to a club with loads of money to spend next, then he can show people how he can cope on the other end of the spectrum. You mean like he did with Sheffield Utd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, rynny said: You mean like he did with Sheffield Utd? What money did he spend ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Never heard any of his press conferences at Shefield United but I'm pretty sure they would have been saying how they should walk the league due to their budget and attendances... He/They had 4th biggest budget in League One in his last season, the season he finished 5th and got them to a cup semi final. The budget was in part generated byt the sale of Harry Maguire @ £2.5m and the FA Cup semi final run @ £1.5m. Biggest budget in the league was a myth but no-one lets that get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 52 minutes ago, Paul71 said: What money did he spend ? His biggest outlay by a long chalk was on the Beard when he signed the Bray for a reported 1.5m plus add ons. (2m in some places) Offset by the sale of Harry Maguire for 2.5m (plus the 20% sell on clause they got when he moved to Leicester) That and tThe fee they got for Che Adams meant he left them with a fairly large surplus on his transfer spend overall (fees paid). He spent a few quid on Matty Done (750k I think) and had his pants pulled down over Michael Higdon (250k). He signed Coutts and Freeman for a combined 250k. I believe the rest were free transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Everyone knows about the gulf, it's just a bit tedious talking about it so often. I can see why it would be. Having said that, clearly the Burton fans are forgetting if no-one else is. Burton Albion fans think they should be out-performing those teams easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Paul71 said: What money did he spend ? One of the top budgets in the league. All the players he signed in his 3 transfer windows, not many managers have spent £2m on a single player on league 1. Stefan Scougall Livingston £400,000 Bob Harris Blackpool Signed Marc McNulty Livingston Undisc. Ben Davies Derby Free James Wallace Tranmere Free Chris Basham Blackpool Free Jamal Campbell-Ryce Notts Co Free Andy Butler Walsall Free Craig Alcock Peterborough Free Harrison McGahey Blackpool Free Michael Higdon NEC Nijmegen Signed Iain Turner Barnsley Signed James McEveley Swindon Signed Kieran Wallace Notts Forest Unknown Kieron Freeman Derby Free Paul Coutts Derby Signed John Brayford Cardiff £2,000,000 Matt Done Rochdale Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: He/They had 4th biggest budget in League One in his last season, the season he finished 5th and got them to a cup semi final. The budget was in part generated byt the sale of Harry Maguire @ £2.5m and the FA Cup semi final run @ £1.5m. Biggest budget in the league was a myth but no-one lets that get in the way. Biggest average crowd by about 6000. Biggest budget based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: Biggest average crowd by about 6000. Biggest budget based on what? Wages. I'm not saying they weren't the biggest club in the league by some distance. I'm saying the biggest budget in the league was a myth and I'm saying he generated a fair bit of that budget increase himself through player sales and cup runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Wages. I'm not saying they weren't the biggest club in the league by some distance. I'm saying the biggest budget in the league was a myth and I'm saying he generated a fair bit of that budget increase himself through player sales and cup runs. Just out of interest, how do you find out other clubs players wage budgets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 For general public viewing I'm FAIRLY sure it was published (maybe only by Swiss Rambler, the guy that does all the financial analysis blogs). I'll try to track it down so you can have a read. Having said that, this particular info came direct from the horses mouth of a board member of the Blades and was confirmed by a very prominent board member of Bristol City (one of the clubs with a bigger budget). Of course I don't know exact ££s each club spent, only the ranking of the 5 biggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 hours ago, rynny said: You mean like he did with Sheffield Utd? Was going to say the same. Wasted a big opportunity there considering the free reign he pretty much had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I'll say again. If taking a club from 3rd bottom to 7th and an FA Cup semi final in your first season, then following that with a play off semi final and a capital one cup semi final (both semi's as a league one club) is seen as failing or wasting an opportunity then the game has gone nuts. They might not have had the kind of season Chris Wilder produced and is producing again, but they'd have been up a season quicker if they hadn't have got rid and brought in the clown Adkins. Losing the Preston cup replay having been 2-0 up was the start of things going wrong, No-one relates to the importance of that result but win it and they play Man Utd, get another million quid in their coffers and suddenly the squad that was "bloated" comes in to play. The other thing that went wrong? The Sheffield United fans were never excited at all by the prospect of a play off push, they expected auto's and I think NC under estimated that, I believe he thought he'd win the play offs and be proclaimed a hero but the trouble with that is that the fans never got behind the run in and by the time the semi came around they were actually negative. They wanted a manager who would say we are Sheffield United and we're too big for this place. I understand why, I wish NC had shown a bit more bravado during his time there but to say he failed is stretching things a bit far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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