Vydra looking Menacing ... when will he start?

[Millenniumram]

17 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Bit harsh. Olsson was in a 1 on 1 situation and should have been able to stop the cross. There was no overlapping player for Russell to watch and Olsson should have been able to handle that situation himself. I think Russell has done very well defensively over the recent weeks and that's probably a major factor in him regularly being picked ahead of Weimann and now Camara.

Oh yeah, ain't taking anything away from Olsson who literally let them have reign over the left wing and cross whenever they felt like it- but if you watch the goal Russell literally stops running, and makes no concerted effort to help with stopping their wide attackers, who had tore him and Olsson apart all evening and left him to deal with him alone, still should have been able to mind but I think that goal could have been avoided if Russell tracked back better.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, that Baird is **** too. Awful defender, never goes forward. Just a has-been looking for a final pay check.

And Pearce, why did we buy him? All that money to just sit on the bench. 

Lets not forget Ince, lazy, is more worried about his hair than scoring a goal. 

(Everyone on this Forum 1 year to date)

[rammieib]

Completely ineffective today. Really need Martin back or a similar player come Jan. We're basically riding high on the form of Ince alone.

[Ramz64]

7 hours ago, McLovin said:

 

 

This thread is full of duplicates. In answer to your question he has scored twice. Looks like Vydra is the new scapegoat @eddie

He was signed to score goals. 

 

That's about it . 

[Chester40]

Someone like Michael Owen did OK just scoring goals and little else...

Unfortunately he's not been scoring goals so he will get some criticism.  Also agree its harsh on him as he wasn't signed for the role he is expected to perform now and that Bent is currently excelling in...CM on his day was perfect for that holding and linking role but I think we need to move on from him.

Moving Vydra to the wing may be interesting but he could just be Weimann MK2 there. 

Fortunately Steve has got the midas touch back...so I don't really worry cos he will get it right!!!

[WystonRam]

Vydra might be better suited to the Ince/Russell role with Bent playing the front one of the three.

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, Chris Mills said:

Yeah, that Baird is **** too. Awful defender, never goes forward. Just a has-been looking for a final pay check.

And Pearce, why did we buy him? All that money to just sit on the bench. 

Lets not forget Ince, lazy, is more worried about his hair than scoring a goal. 

(Everyone on this Forum 1 year to date)

Was that what was said under Mac? Cos that's what counts.

[EulogyForEvolution]

3 hours ago, WystonRam said:

Vydra might be better suited to the Ince/Russell role with Bent playing the front one of the three.

Exactly. I want to see a big striker who can hold the ball up come in to allow Vydra to play in a more comfortable position.

He's quick, tricky and he has an eye for goal. We know this. He just doesn't have the physicality to play as a lone striker in our system. I would love to be proved wrong.

I think Mac will know it too, so expect to see us move for a striker in January.

[DEL]

I said it few times and Vydra need a GOAL that'll kick on his season. 

[Walkley Ram]

Vydra has scored playing in worse sides than this. Same as Blackman. They'll come good if we can find a way of getting them into the game more. Watching vydra at Wigan, he looked like he was playing alone for large parts. Little support from midfield or the wings until Bryson came on. Can't do it all on his own.

[Bris Vegas]

18 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

I said it few times and Vydra need a GOAL that'll kick on his season. 

Getting a goal won't improve his aerial ability, hold-up and link-up play, first touch and movement.

He might become more confident infront of goal... But that's not the side of his game which bothers me. Its that he is very average in all of the aspects too.

He reminds me of Robert Earnshaw, but on current form without the goal threat.

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, oodledoodle said:

Vydra has scored playing in worse sides than this. Same as Blackman. They'll come good if we can find a way of getting them into the game more. Watching vydra at Wigan, he looked like he was playing alone for large parts. Little support from midfield or the wings until Bryson came on. Can't do it all on his own.

It's nothing to do with the quality of the teams he's played in.  He's scored goals when he's played off a target man, and hasn't when he hasn't.  It's literally that simple.  And we don't have a target man, and without rebuilding our entire midfield, we won't be ever playing him off of one.

The reason he gets no support from midfield is because he doesn't hold the ball or, or come deep for it.  If you're playing a 433, you can't have your striker permanently on the last man's shoulder looking for balls in behind - he just gets isolated, and you don't retain the ball properly.  I honestly don't see any point keeping him here.  It's clear McClaren wants to play a 433, and likewise, a 433 suits almost every other player in the squad.  So I don't see us moving away from it and I don't see him flourishing if we don't, so it's probably best for everyone to cut our losses, and try and recoup as much of the money as we can.

[DEL]

Just now, Bris Vegas said:

Getting a goal won't improve his aerial ability, hold-up and link-up play, first touch and movement.

He might become more confident infront of goal... But that's not the side of his game which bothers me. Its that he is very average in all of the aspects too.

He reminds me of Robert Earnshaw, but on current form without the goal threat.

Yawn. 

[Walkley Ram]

4 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's nothing to do with the quality of the teams he's played in.  He's scored goals when he's played off a target man, and hasn't when he hasn't.  It's literally that simple.  And we don't have a target man, and without rebuilding our entire midfield, we won't be ever playing him off of one.

The reason he gets no support from midfield is because he doesn't hold the ball or, or come deep for it.  If you're playing a 433, you can't have your striker permanently on the last man's shoulder looking for balls in behind - he just gets isolated, and you don't retain the ball properly.  I honestly don't see any point keeping him here.  It's clear McClaren wants to play a 433, and likewise, a 433 suits almost every other player in the squad.  So I don't see us moving away from it and I don't see him flourishing if we don't, so it's probably best for everyone to cut our losses, and try and recoup as much of the money as we can.

All fair points. What's crouchy up to these days 

[Bris Vegas]

18 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's nothing to do with the quality of the teams he's played in.  He's scored goals when he's played off a target man, and hasn't when he hasn't.  It's literally that simple.  And we don't have a target man, and without rebuilding our entire midfield, we won't be ever playing him off of one.

The reason he gets no support from midfield is because he doesn't hold the ball or, or come deep for it.  If you're playing a 433, you can't have your striker permanently on the last man's shoulder looking for balls in behind - he just gets isolated, and you don't retain the ball properly.  I honestly don't see any point keeping him here.  It's clear McClaren wants to play a 433, and likewise, a 433 suits almost every other player in the squad.  So I don't see us moving away from it and I don't see him flourishing if we don't, so it's probably best for everyone to cut our losses, and try and recoup as much of the money as we can.

Spot on.

Only other way you could get Vydra playing as a mobile lone forward looking to play off the shoulder is by playing a 4-2-3-1 system.

But to play such a system, you need such an athletic holding midfielder that a midfield two doesn't become an issue, and the attacking midfielder needs to have plenty of quality to find the space between the lines and dictate play.

We don't have either the athletic holding midfielder or the attacking midfielder in our squad. And both would cost quite a fair bit too.

Vydra is just another case of a player who doesn't fit. We panicked, broke our transfer record for him knowing he suits the Pearson system, only to sack Pearson four games later.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

.

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's nothing to do with the quality of the teams he's played in.  He's scored goals when he's played off a target man, and hasn't when he hasn't.  It's literally that simple.  And we don't have a target man, and without rebuilding our entire midfield, we won't be ever playing him off of one.

The reason he gets no support from midfield is because he doesn't hold the ball or, or come deep for it.  If you're playing a 433, you can't have your striker permanently on the last man's shoulder looking for balls in behind - he just gets isolated, and you don't retain the ball properly.  I honestly don't see any point keeping him here.  It's clear McClaren wants to play a 433, and likewise, a 433 suits almost every other player in the squad.  So I don't see us moving away from it and I don't see him flourishing if we don't, so it's probably best for everyone to cut our losses, and try and recoup as much of the money as we can.

This is a key point. We proved empirically that we don't currently possess midfielders with the attributes to play in a 2.

So regardless of what mac would like to play, he's smart enough to realise he needs to keep 3 in central midfield for the moment. 

The idea that players cannot at all be coached into different systems is challengable tho. Conte has earned great plaudits for moving to a back 3. I've wondered whether mac could target a 3-5-2  formation. Of course,  whilst this may suit our midfield and forward players best of all, it may simply expose the centre backs and full/wing backs as lacking.

[RadioactiveWaste]

3 hours ago, HantsRam said:

.

The idea that players cannot at all be coached into different systems is challengable tho. Conte has earned great plaudits for moving to a back 3. I've wondered whether mac could target a 3-5-2  formation. Of course,  whilst this may suit our midfield and forward players best of all, it may simply expose the centre backs and full/wing backs as lacking.

I've wondered about 3-5-2 as well. I don't think I'd trust Ince as wing back, but Anya and Christie could do it. Something like?

                     Carson

            Keogh-Shackell-Pearce

Anya/Christie - Hughes - BJ/GT - Butters - Lowe/Fozzy

                  Ince (free role)

                           Bent/Vydra

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I've wondered about 3-5-2 as well. I don't think I'd trust Ince as wing back, but Anya and Christie could do it. Something like?

                     Carson

            Keogh-Shackell-Pearce

Anya/Christie - Hughes - BJ/GT - Butters - Lowe/Fozzy

                  Ince (free role)

                           Bent/Vydra

That's exactly the sort of thing. I agree that I think you'd perm 2 from ince/bent/vydra in the front spots to allow some rotation. And there are still people who don't seem to fit anywhere such as blackman and baird but that's a minor point.

In terms of getting the most out of the current personnel might be worth a go.

Mac was assistant under TBE when we played a similar system so he's not completely unfamiliar with it. Or indeed wedded solely to 433.

[RoyMac5]

So lets see, you're all suggesting changing the way we play for one player? And that player isn't even Martin! ROFL.

[needles]

Our form guide suggests that a change of shape would be unnecessary at best, probably stupid.

Our manager's history with 433 here suggests that it's unlikely to happen anyway.

So Vydra then, along with Anya probably, looks like unlucky and blameless flotsam from the Pearson debacle. If we can get half our money back, I'd move him on.