Vydra looking Menacing ... when will he start?

[barnsley ram]

9 hours ago, unclej said:

Better than Bent (who lives offside) and Martin ( who has become petulant and disruptive ).   

bent plays on the shoulder of the last man and has scored over 200 goals playing this way he relies on eary through balls so he is going to be offside a fair bit  but he is doing agreat job of stopping their defense from pushing up i think his contribution is key to us competing with teams at the moment

[Rev]

5 minutes ago, nfb said:

He might argue his remit from Mel was to advise Wassall, not sort out the politics in the changing room, that was Wassall's job... just saying.

So Harry observed second hand Wassall having to ask CM for permission to change things, but didn't step in himself?

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

So Harry observed second hand Wassall having to ask CM for permission to change things, but didn't step in himself?

Must've been difficult for 'arry to have to admit he couldn't deal with CM, fair does for fessing up.

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Must've been difficult for 'arry to have to admit he couldn't deal with CM, fair does for fessing up.

Not only that, but teammates of a far higher pedigree having played many more games at the highest level than CM, including Carson, Baird, Johnson, Shackell (always the shrinking flower), Wiemann and Bent stood back and watched Chris dictate what would and wouldn't happen?

Wassall himself had more games at a higher level, as did Pascal and Kevin Phillips, as indeed did Pearce and Hendrick at international level, yet one man managed to cow them all into silence.

No wonder we didn't go up!

 

[Alph]

How many people go in the Derby dressing room?

Must be hundreds

[Alph]

And as for the "who would you rather take to the PL" angle

A player that fits. 

Doesn't matter how good you are if you don't fit then you make the team weaker. Unless you change the entire team to play to the strengths of one man

It's best you don't reply to this one, Nigel

[rynny]

5 minutes ago, Alpha said:

How many people go in the Derby dressing room?

Must be hundreds

I have and have the picture to prove it ?

 

[brady1993]

In response to @Ninos, when Vydra offers more to the team than Bent currently does. Now I don't mean this as a slight on Vydra at all but when it comes down to it Bent is the player needed right now. Essentially Bent is key in enabling us getting a foothold in the opposition half; he drops deep to show for pass when required, he moves into the channels when required, he holds up the ball when required and his ability in the air gives the team a 'release valve'. By 'release valve' what I mean is, when the midfield and defence are being heavily pressed or under a lot of pressure they have the option of putting a long ball into Bent's general vicinity because they know he has a reasonable chance of winning it (or at least making a good challenge) to allow the team to re-establish further up the pitch.

Vydra is starting to get to grips with most of what I've mentioned (although not as well) and I think will surpass Bent in these areas eventually (he is very technically gifted) but he will never be able to have the same aerial ability for obvious reasons. This means that for us to have a successful attacking unit we need to be able to confidently play it out from the back and move it through the midfield with virtually every move we make. Currently we are trying to do this as Plan A but we can't currently execute this successfully with anywhere near the frequency required to not have the option of being able to hit Bent with a long ball. What gives me hope for Vydra's future is previously under McClaren our approach play has been at the level of consistent quality to utilise somebody like Vydra.

I do think what will help tremendously is when Thorne is fit again because for us to play the way required to get the most out of Vydra our midfield needs to be supremely confident on the ball and very technically gifted. Unfortunately I don't think we can do this with Johnson in the team because he doesn't have the necessary technical attributes to execute it as well as we would need him to. We would need a lot more of our play funneled through the CDM to facilitate it moving through the midfield with ease, similar to what we do when Thorne is playing, so instead of the 'release valve' being hitting a long ball to Bent the 'release valve' is give it to Thorne. 

Disclaimer: Please acknowledge that I think Johnson's performances have been tremendous and he has been a real boon to the team. This isn't an argument for dropping him when Thorne is fully fit. This discussion is purely on the matter of playstyle we'd need to get the most of out Vydra and the players required to execute it. I'm not necessarily saying we'd be a better team for it.

[SuperDerbySuperRams]

Needs to get fitter if he wants to play 90 mins. But looks promising 

[brady1993]

4 hours ago, barnsley ram said:

bent plays on the shoulder of the last man and has scored over 200 goals playing this way he relies on eary through balls so he is going to be offside a fair bit  but he is doing agreat job of stopping their defense from pushing up i think his contribution is key to us competing with teams at the moment

Bent isn't really playing 'on the shoulder' currently and is playing far more like a target man. His all-round play has played a big part in the recent of excellent form.

[Ninos]

12 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

In response to @Ninos, when Vydra offers more to the team than Bent currently does. Now I don't mean this as a slight on Vydra at all but when it comes down to it Bent is the player needed right now. Essentially Bent is key in enabling us getting a foothold in the opposition half; he drops deep to show for pass when required, he moves into the channels when required, he holds up the ball when required and his ability in the air gives the team a 'release valve'. By 'release valve' what I mean is, when the midfield and defence are being heavily pressed or under a lot of pressure they have the option of putting a long ball into Bent's general vicinity because they know he has a reasonable chance of winning it (or at least making a good challenge) to allow the team to re-establish further up the pitch.

Vydra is starting to get to grips with most of what I've mentioned (although not as well) and I think will surpass Bent in these areas eventually (he is very technically gifted) but he will never be able to have the same aerial ability for obvious reasons. This means that for us to have a successful attacking unit we need to be able to confidently play it out from the back and move it through the midfield with virtually every move we make. Currently we are trying to do this as Plan A but we can't currently execute this successfully with anywhere near the frequency required to not have the option of being able to hit Bent with a long ball. What gives me hope for Vydra's future is previously under McClaren our approach play has been at the level of consistent quality to utilise somebody like Vydra.

I do think what will help tremendously is when Thorne is fit again because for us to play the way required to get the most out of Vydra our midfield needs to be supremely confident on the ball and very technically gifted. Unfortunately I don't think we can do this with Johnson in the team because he doesn't have the necessary technical attributes to execute it as well as we would need him to. We would need a lot more of our play funneled through the CDM to facilitate it moving through the midfield with ease, similar to what we do when Thorne is playing, so instead of the 'release valve' being hitting a long ball to Bent the 'release valve' is give it to Thorne. 

Disclaimer: Please acknowledge that I think Johnson's performances have been tremendous and he has been a real boon to the team. This isn't an argument for dropping him when Thorne is fully fit. This discussion is purely on the matter of playstyle we'd need to get the most of out Vydra and the players required to execute it. I'm not necessarily saying we'd be a better team for it.

Jeez that's a pretty impressive post. Nicely done. It exactly describes what's happening and what will prob happen.

I agree, and perhaps the cameos at the end are growing his confidence as he darts around against tired feet. 

I did comment that in any sort of build up Vydra has been very weak in the air while Bent is an incredible leaper who consistently out heads opposing centre halves.

[brady1993]

6 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Jeez that's a pretty impressive post. Nicely done. It exactly describes what's happening and what will prob happen.

I agree, and perhaps the cameos at the end are growing his confidence as he darts around against tired feet. 

I did comment that in any sort of build up Vydra has been very weak in the air while Bent is an incredible leaper who consistently out heads opposing centre halves.

Thanks . It's something I've been mulling over for a little while. I have a sneaky suspicion that McClaren sees us in something of a transitional period and has the ultimate aim of being a side capable of playing with Vydra (and in turn Vydra working on his game to play the role, with this being what the aforementioned cameos are for) playing upfront on his own. I do think McClaren rates Vydra as evidenced by Vydra being nearly always the first sub on but realises that we need Bent more right now. 

[LeedsRam1999]

When Gayle, who is similar to Vydra, plays for Newcastle they utilise him as a release valve as you say by sticking it into channels for him and he does win some battles which is something Vydra will try add to his game as he seems to have the ability, just needs to get stronger and fitter. 

He will learn a lot from Mac

[ollycutts1982]

9 hours ago, nfb said:

All i can say is that if you ask Harry Rednapp, he will tell you that in the changing room during his time here, anything you wanted to implement had to be approved by Martin... itk

Proof???? Where's the quotes? Otherwise you are just another fan who couldn't see Martin's quality. I love a discussion but please offer an argument with some substance. 

[Alph]

6 hours ago, brady1993 said:

In response to @Ninos, when Vydra offers more to the team than Bent currently does. Now I don't mean this as a slight on Vydra at all but when it comes down to it Bent is the player needed right now. Essentially Bent is key in enabling us getting a foothold in the opposition half; he drops deep to show for pass when required, he moves into the channels when required, he holds up the ball when required and his ability in the air gives the team a 'release valve'. By 'release valve' what I mean is, when the midfield and defence are being heavily pressed or under a lot of pressure they have the option of putting a long ball into Bent's general vicinity because they know he has a reasonable chance of winning it (or at least making a good challenge) to allow the team to re-establish further up the pitch.

Vydra is starting to get to grips with most of what I've mentioned (although not as well) and I think will surpass Bent in these areas eventually (he is very technically gifted) but he will never be able to have the same aerial ability for obvious reasons. This means that for us to have a successful attacking unit we need to be able to confidently play it out from the back and move it through the midfield with virtually every move we make. Currently we are trying to do this as Plan A but we can't currently execute this successfully with anywhere near the frequency required to not have the option of being able to hit Bent with a long ball. What gives me hope for Vydra's future is previously under McClaren our approach play has been at the level of consistent quality to utilise somebody like Vydra.

I do think what will help tremendously is when Thorne is fit again because for us to play the way required to get the most out of Vydra our midfield needs to be supremely confident on the ball and very technically gifted. Unfortunately I don't think we can do this with Johnson in the team because he doesn't have the necessary technical attributes to execute it as well as we would need him to. We would need a lot more of our play funneled through the CDM to facilitate it moving through the midfield with ease, similar to what we do when Thorne is playing, so instead of the 'release valve' being hitting a long ball to Bent the 'release valve' is give it to Thorne. 

Disclaimer: Please acknowledge that I think Johnson's performances have been tremendous and he has been a real boon to the team. This isn't an argument for dropping him when Thorne is fully fit. This discussion is purely on the matter of playstyle we'd need to get the most of out Vydra and the players required to execute it. I'm not necessarily saying we'd be a better team for it.

Don't think you have ever posted anything I disagree with

[Millenniumram]

7 hours ago, brady1993 said:

In response to @Ninos, when Vydra offers more to the team than Bent currently does. Now I don't mean this as a slight on Vydra at all but when it comes down to it Bent is the player needed right now. Essentially Bent is key in enabling us getting a foothold in the opposition half; he drops deep to show for pass when required, he moves into the channels when required, he holds up the ball when required and his ability in the air gives the team a 'release valve'. By 'release valve' what I mean is, when the midfield and defence are being heavily pressed or under a lot of pressure they have the option of putting a long ball into Bent's general vicinity because they know he has a reasonable chance of winning it (or at least making a good challenge) to allow the team to re-establish further up the pitch.

Vydra is starting to get to grips with most of what I've mentioned (although not as well) and I think will surpass Bent in these areas eventually (he is very technically gifted) but he will never be able to have the same aerial ability for obvious reasons. This means that for us to have a successful attacking unit we need to be able to confidently play it out from the back and move it through the midfield with virtually every move we make. Currently we are trying to do this as Plan A but we can't currently execute this successfully with anywhere near the frequency required to not have the option of being able to hit Bent with a long ball. What gives me hope for Vydra's future is previously under McClaren our approach play has been at the level of consistent quality to utilise somebody like Vydra.

I do think what will help tremendously is when Thorne is fit again because for us to play the way required to get the most out of Vydra our midfield needs to be supremely confident on the ball and very technically gifted. Unfortunately I don't think we can do this with Johnson in the team because he doesn't have the necessary technical attributes to execute it as well as we would need him to. We would need a lot more of our play funneled through the CDM to facilitate it moving through the midfield with ease, similar to what we do when Thorne is playing, so instead of the 'release valve' being hitting a long ball to Bent the 'release valve' is give it to Thorne. 

Disclaimer: Please acknowledge that I think Johnson's performances have been tremendous and he has been a real boon to the team. This isn't an argument for dropping him when Thorne is fully fit. This discussion is purely on the matter of playstyle we'd need to get the most of out Vydra and the players required to execute it. I'm not necessarily saying we'd be a better team for it.

Brilliant post, pretty much everything I've been mulling over for the past few weeks as well, saved me a long post

[archied]

I think vydra may get a start today based on the fact it's 3 games in six days and bent may be rested also I see Mac wanting us to soak up pressure and play on the break with pace 

[Ninos]

8 minutes ago, archied said:

I think vydra may get a start today based on the fact it's 3 games in six days and bent may be rested also I see Mac wanting us to soak up pressure and play on the break with pace 

Don't mind who starts but I think this makes a lot of sense. Not many better on the break if he can start tucking them away.

[nfb]

4 hours ago, ollycutts1982 said:

Proof???? Where's the quotes? Otherwise you are just another fan who couldn't see Martin's quality. I love a discussion but please offer an argument with some substance. 

Look back at my history, i have always liked Martin, from day 1,( but since when does a quote commenting on a person's impact in a workplace mean you dont see their quality of work ? you assume too much. ) when i used the word guile to describe him...as for proof i was a conversation, with no recording taking place, so yes, i am a man of no substance... im not going to carry on with this,i told what i know, believe me or dont.

[Sexydadbod]

I think Vydra will suit today's game because Fulham will come out and have a go at us