The Wardrobe Watch

[Ninos]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

ROFL

You do realise how you make yourself look with your anti-Martin tirade? Did he shag your partner?

Could care less. I actually watch him play so I base it on what I see and I see he's a happy pay cheque collector who has little ability and doesn't try. I don't want a player like that at my club.

[Ninos]

21 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

 

Agree. But like i've said before, I would take him back in January with open arms. 

Maybe going out on loan to Fulham is the wake up call HE needed. 

He needs to see how lucky he is to be at this club and if he does leave then there is every possibility he would regret it for the rest of his career.

He won't ever wake up - not here not there not here. He just don't got it. 

[cannable]

4 minutes ago, Ninos said:

He won't ever wake up - not here not there not here. He just don't got it. 

Do you ever not think that perhaps 75% of Derby fans and almost every fact and statistic is right and you might be wrong? 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Could care less. I actually watch him play so I base it on what I see and I see he's a happy pay cheque collector who has little ability and doesn't try. I don't want a player like that at my club.

Mel! I didn't realise you posted on here using Ninos as your username.

[Anon]

10 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Could care less.

Sorry to be a pedant, but the phrase is "I couldn't care less". The way you put it implies that you do care, at least a little bit, which I'm sure isn't your intention.

[Curtains]

Glad Pearson let Martin go.  

He has been hopeless recently for us  

Pearson also got a good price for Hendrick and let Jake go to a decent club which was a good deal for Jake .

Love Vydra and Anya and hoping Wilson will come good  .

Shame about Forsyth being out all season though but hoping Thorne will be back soon .

 

 

[The_Sheriff]

Wardrobe watch

pretty accurate to be fair!

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Ashz09 said:

I think the diving around, not looking interested, blaming others, generally not moving for a ball unless it's placed right at his feet one cm to his left or right the toys are thrown out the pram.

I thought he came back looking fitter but still not the same player. He used to look hungry and shown plenty of ability to find the net etc with the whole team built around him.

Whilst he wasn't at his best this season, I just want to point out if you take a look at the number of touches and passes he had whilst on the pitch this season it is much higher than any other striker in the squad (which are all woefully low with Bent, Wilson and Vydra all frequently under 20 touches a match). To me this (along watching when he played) implies he was still trying to get on the ball quite a bit and your statement is not entirely correct.

[Sexydadbod]

Martin was pretty overrated when he was here. People made out he was one of the top championship strikers and on the same level as the Ross McCormack's of this world when he was nowhere near.  He was a decent championship striker, nothing more nothing less. I'd be surprised if Martin hits 15 in a season again in the rest of his career. 

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Martin was pretty overrated when he was here. People made out he was one of the top championship strikers and on the same level as the Ross McCormack's of this world when he was nowhere near.  He was a decent championship striker, nothing more nothing less. I'd be surprised if Martin hits 15 in a season again in the rest of his career. 

Whilst perhaps not as good as McCormack, Martin was perfectly suited for the style of football and system we wanted to play under McClaren. His ability to drop off the opponent's back line and link-up play with the midfield and wide forwards (almost acting as another midfield) was absolutely key to our short-passing, high intensity gameplay. His goals were the icing on the cake. 

Could we have found a forward capable of doing that and either have an extra yard of pace or a bit more physical in the air ? Possibly, but it would have cost a fair sum of money. What's been clear since he was allowed to go out on loan is we lack a forward who can effectively link-up  play with the midfield either through physicality or technical ability, with our current crop strikers only interested in being on the end of the final ball and not in team-play as demonstrated by the woeful amount of touches and passes the likes of Vydra, Bent and wilson accumulate in a game.

[brady1993]

Just now, brady1993 said:

Whilst perhaps not as good as McCormack, Martin was perfectly suited for the style of football and system we wanted to play under McClaren. His ability to drop off the opponent's back line and link-up play with the midfield and wide forwards (almost acting as another midfield) was absolutely key to our short-passing, high intensity gameplay. His goals were the icing on the cake. What Martin was (and is) is a top link-up player at this level, somebody who can help get involved in team play and help build towards a goal.

Could we have found a forward capable of doing that and either have an extra yard of pace or a bit more physical in the air ? Possibly, but it would have cost a fair sum of money. What's been clear since he was allowed to go out on loan is we lack a forward who can effectively link-up  play with the midfield either through physicality or technical ability, with our current crop strikers only interested in being on the end of the final ball and not in team-play as demonstrated by the woeful amount of touches and passes the likes of Vydra, Bent and wilson accumulate in a game.

 

[Waffle]

I'm sure a quick scout search on the likes of football manager could find a hidden gem lurking in a foreign league to be our new Martin 

[cannable]

35 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Martin was pretty overrated when he was here. People made out he was one of the top championship strikers and on the same level as the Ross McCormack's of this world when he was nowhere near.  He was a decent championship striker, nothing more nothing less. I'd be surprised if Martin hits 15 in a season again in the rest of his career. 

McCormack's in a league of his own at this level. The fact is that, McCormack aside, since the beginning of 13/14 no Championship striker has had a direct influence on more goals than Martin. Of strikers to only feature in two of those three seasons Andre Gray also has more goals and assists (one) than Martin's two best seasons - though if you factor in play-offs then Martin is two ahead!

And before the argument comes in that Martin has had now blah blah blah not scored since April. Ross McCormack's only directly contributed to two more goals since Martin's last.

Martin is a top Championship striker. There should be no doubt. Decent Championship strikers are the likes of Vokes and Kermorgant. 

[The_Sheriff]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst he wasn't at his best this season, I just want to point out if you take a look at the number of touches and passes he had whilst on the pitch this season it is much higher than any other striker in the squad (which are all woefully low with Bent, Wilson and Vydra all frequently under 20 touches a match). To me this (along watching when he played) implies he was still trying to get on the ball quite a bit and your statement is not entirely correct.

Strikers are judged on passes and touches?

I don't care how many touches my lone striker has I just want those touches to hit the net!

[brady1993]

 

1 hour ago, Simsy said:

Strikers are judged on passes and touches?

I don't care how many touches my lone striker has I just want those touches to hit the net!

Name me a top team who plays only with pure goalscorers up front. 

That is a myopic view of what striker might be required. It is somewhat system dependant but by in large most successful systems play with at LEAST one forward (for top teams it's extremely uncommon to see any player who 'just scores') who helps link the play from midfield to attack and he becomes the conduit through which most attacks happen. This role is important because by linking play up this player allows a team to progress up the pitch and build an attack, and without him an attack can be significantly stifled. This player can come in many guises from the traditional target man, a number 10 or something like a false 9. 

Generally you will find that this player ends up with a reasonable amount of touches and passes with the ball due to the fact he is providing a constant option to the midfield and his effectiveness will generally correlate to how creative a team will be. My point is that we currently do not have a player for this job in the team currently, with pretty much all of our forwards purely looking to run in behind but the problem comes if everyone is running in behind then the play can't be built up to a level for a killer ball to happen. You end up with the situation we experienced with 'Pearson's 442' where because both forwards were only interested in running in behind, the opposition defense can drop off while there midfield still presses creating a massive gap between Derby's midfield and forward line stifling the attack. This is can be completely mitigated by either a physical target man to occupy the centre halfs or somebody who is willing to drop off the front line and act as a 10.

You may ask but what about 433 surely that can afford just a pure goalscorer? The answer would be no because it's critical for that lone forward to be a constant option to allow your three midfielders to move up the pitch and establish themselves in more attacking areas. 

 

[jono]

I think Martin has been an amazing asset and contributor to the Derby cause and has a place in our book of stars but a bit like Steve Mac's team he can play only one way. We had a thread on here about good footballers adapting. I have never been convinced that Martin can adapt. When it's going well he's an ace. When he's been rumbled he looks slow and predictable.

thanks for some great great memories Chris. But time to move on. 

[nottingram]

3 hours ago, McLovin said:

Martin was pretty overrated when he was here. People made out he was one of the top championship strikers and on the same level as the Ross McCormack's of this world when he was nowhere near.  He was a decent championship striker, nothing more nothing less. I'd be surprised if Martin hits 15 in a season again in the rest of his career. 

There is so much wrong with this it is actually embarrassing.

Talk about rewriting history, christ.

[RodleyRam]

11 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst he wasn't at his best this season, I just want to point out if you take a look at the number of touches and passes he had whilst on the pitch this season it is much higher than any other striker in the squad (which are all woefully low with Bent, Wilson and Vydra all frequently under 20 touches a match). To me this (along watching when he played) implies he was still trying to get on the ball quite a bit and your statement is not entirely correct.

Shush now with your reasonable evidence base... Martin was never a good player for us and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince me otherwise.

[RodleyRam]

9 hours ago, Simsy said:

Strikers are judged on passes and touches?

I don't care how many touches my lone striker has I just want those touches to hit the net!

In fairness you have to play a style of football that might allow your lone striker to get close to the opposition goal with the ball somewhere near his feet to measure him by those standards alone.

[Ashz09]

19 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst he wasn't at his best this season, I just want to point out if you take a look at the number of touches and passes he had whilst on the pitch this season it is much higher than any other striker in the squad (which are all woefully low with Bent, Wilson and Vydra all frequently under 20 touches a match). To me this (along watching when he played) implies he was still trying to get on the ball quite a bit and your statement is not entirely correct.

That's the thing most of our play was through Martin whether it be long and short. The stats doesn't mention how many balls he could of took control of which was in range of him which he didn't make a effort for. Be interesting to see how many times he got the ball last season and actually played an attacking pass or flick so to speak which he actually pulled off.

 

Don't get me wrong I love C.Martin but the last season or two he hasn't looked the same he's scored which is what most people want including me. Just he's getting more and more frustrated and so are the fans.