Mel: Case for defence

[Gritty]

Apologies for a long post

I think we are all feeling quite emotional after recent events.  Here are my views on Mel in particular:

Mel Morris has invested a huge amount of his time, money and passion in trying to get Derby to be successful. Whatever the results have been to date, that commitment I don't think can be questioned. Some examples are:

• He has cleared pretty much all our debts (himself)
• He has invested in the academy and training facilities and worked incredibly hard to get us Academy 1 status
• He backs his managers to the maximum amount he is permitted to under FFP rules (yes we were net even this transfer window but I suspect that's because of needing to ensure we don't breach losses on FFP and we will be making losses o/a wage bill)

To be clear here, this is a man who could have taken his multi millions, gone to live with his family on a Caribbean island, but instead is trying to take his hometown club back to the big time.  Whatever people may think about his decisions, can we at least respect his commitment and intent to do the best for Derby.  Now, onto his actions.  The following is all caveated with the fact that I (like all of us) are not privy to the full details of what goes on behind closed doors and we don't understand the full context.  

• Sacking of SM.  I can understand why SM was sacked. While I was deeply sad to see SM go, he was not - at that time - committed to DCFC it appeared.  (Can have another thread on whether he should come back; separate discussion)
• Appointment of Clement.  Seemed a sensible appointment to all of us at the time.  Can't disagree with the logic (young talented coach with a record of improving players)
• Entering the dressing room. I think this was a mistake as it undermined the manager (i.e. made it seem as if Clement needed backup).  The intention I am sure was a desire to help and because he was so annoyed. Different people will have different views on that. But I would have liked the manager to have dealt with that (or remove the manager if unhappy with the manager)
• Sacking Clement because he didn't play the Derby way and blood youth, having just bought Clement additional players that blocked the path of the youth team players.  I found all this a bit inconsistent,  Again, the commitment from Mel in buying the players is admirable. And I think it's also fine to set an objective for the manager to develop youth. But the two things seemed a bit inconsistent to me.  And some of the comments attributed to MM about the Derby way involving a settled first 11 and playing Hanson more worried me as getting close to the managers end of things. And then sacking Clement without a better option to take over looked a bit premature to me which then led to the appointment of Wassall.
• Appointment of Pearson.  Not my choice but it was certainly a very reasonable decision given his track record which many people applauded. And he then backed Pearson and allowed him freedom to restructure the squad.
• Suspending of Pearson: We don't know why so too early to judge

In conclusion, I think Mel has been working very hard to help Derby succeed. He's taken some decisions that with hindsight have turned out not to work but which looked, to me, reasonable at the time. The one thing I'd say is that - while reasonable to set objectives and to hold the manager to account on performance of the team and development more generally against those objectives - I'd want to know the manager was then free to get on with his job without too much interference in how he was delivering on those objectives.  Purely based on media reports, it feels to me that Mel gets close to that line at times (albeit that is media and social media gossip and I don;t have the facts).  

[ITSD]

Good to see a sensible post. The only point I disagree with you on is the appointment of Pearson- it never looked like it would work out, and I think Mel bowed to fan pressure, which I thought was a mistake at the time.

[Animal is a Ram]

I saw a lot of posts comparing Mel with Fawaz and Cellino.

Yes - there's a massive question mark over Mel with the on-pitch stuff, but at least we are sound off it. We pay our bills, and he pays his taxes.

Good post, @feisty

[Mostyn6]

I do wonder if the Wassall appointment was because of Pearson. Pearson was still on the books at Leicester and still entitled to a massive round of bonuses for them winning the PL, so he was never going to buy out his gardening leave, so if that's the case, Wassall was a sensible choice.

My main thing now is that these players get ANOTHER fresh start, one which some of them, in my opinion, do not deserve. By the time the next manager has sussed which ones will hold us back, he'll have been sacked, and so on.

[Donny Ram]

Well structured and sensible post.

My question to Mel would be - if the Derby Way is to bring youngsters through the academy and in to the first team how does this not create a potential issue when he is nested as much as we did in transfers, surely buying proven professionals sort of comes with a pre-requisite that they will be selected?

We don't know the reason as to why Clement was sacked, although this has been the subject of much speculation, so his departure may have (or obviously did warrant) the action taken by the club.

[Chris Mills]

8 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

I saw a lot of posts comparing Mel with Fawaz and Cellino.

Yes - there's a massive question mark over Mel with the on-pitch stuff, but at least we are sound off it. We pay our bills, and he pays his taxes.

Good post, @feisty

No one rich pays their taxes

[Animal is a Ram]

1 minute ago, Chris Mills said:

No one rich pays their taxes

Well, he hasn't been convicted of evading tax.. 

[jono]

5 minutes ago, Chris Mills said:

No one rich pays their taxes

Mrs Hemsley actually said "we don't pay taxes, taxes are for little people" .....and she ended up in prison .. For tax evasion.

of course it does depend on how you define rich, but in the UK the Richest 10% of the population pay more than 50% of all tax revenue so, demonstrably the rich pay tax. 

just saying. 

[Guest]

You can put a defence in for the way he is running the club, however we are now onto our 5th manager under his short tenure.  I would suspect that since the club has been formed we have probably only had around 30 managers (excluding short term ones), so therefore around one manager every 7 month compared to previously one every 4 years.. Something is inherently wrong at the club.

[BBG83]

For his investment into the club I applaud Morris.

But when it comes to first team matters he's doing my head in.

He knew what he was getting with Clement. An inexperienced coach but a very good coach. One who needed time.

He knew what he was getting with Pearson. There are pictures all over the Internet of Pearson holding down the palace player by the throat. If he's got that in his locker in public, it's pretty clear that he won't hold back in private.

Plus Pearson will have outlined his plans and ways at the interview, surely? To which I'm assuming Morris was happy to back and take us down another path. Again, that would need time and patience.

I get the impression that Morris will change the path he wants Derby to take at will. Just stick to a plan for gods sake. Do your research and stick with your decision Mel!!!

Unless Pearson has done something dodgy outside of football then there's no excuse for Morris. He hired the guy knowing what he's all about. Same with Clement.

[TuffLuff]

I know Morris has done a lot of good, but I don't think that automatically takes him out of the firing line. As chairman he has to take the brunt that his last two managerial appointments have ended up being the wrong ones. This has ended up costing us millions already and will end up costing us millions more which could have gone elsewhere.

Hindsight is glorious and at the time a lot of us agreed that they were the correct choice, but there are people at the club who are paid a lot to get that decision right. It's not just what fans want, it's someone who fits the club.

i am playing devils advocate a bit btw

[Mostyn6]

14 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

You can put a defence in for the way he is running the club, however we are now onto our 5th manager under his short tenure.  I would suspect that since the club has been formed we have probably only had around 30 managers (excluding short term ones), so therefore around one manager every 7 month compared to previously one every 4 years.. Something is inherently wrong at the club.

not really fair to distort the facts. He inherited (1) McClaren and (2) Clement as they were done under GSE but with his approval, I'm not sure (3) Wassall counts as it's now clear he was a stop-gap until (4) Pearson became free and fully paid up by Leicester, and (5) Powell is a caretaker. Considering you won't consider short term ones in your overall figure, why would you consider McClaren, Wassall and Powell to beat Morris with?

There is plenty of **** to throw at Morris without making stuff up.

13 minutes ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

For his investment into the club I applaud Morris.

But when it comes to first team matters he's doing my head in.

He knew what he was getting with Clement. An inexperienced coach but a very good coach. One who needed time.

He knew what he was getting with Pearson. There are pictures all over the Internet of Pearson holding down the palace player by the throat. If he's got that in his locker in public, it's pretty clear that he won't hold back in private.

Plus Pearson will have outlined his plans and ways at the interview, surely? To which I'm assuming Morris was happy to back and take us down another path. Again, that would need time and patience.

I get the impression that Morris will change the path he wants Derby to take at will. Just stick to a plan for gods sake. Do your research and stick with your decision Mel!!!

Unless Pearson has done something dodgy outside of football then there's no excuse for Morris. He hired the guy knowing what he's all about. Same with Clement.

What he thought he was getting with Pearson was the positive stuff.

[oldtimeram]

Shhhh, we should not speculate! 

[europia]

32 minutes ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

 

Unless Pearson has done something dodgy outside of football then there's no excuse for Morris. He hired the guy knowing what he's all about. Same with Clement.

Again the suspension / dismissal will be shrouded in mystery, but obviously there is a pattern developing here.

[ram59]

It Is so easy to be critical of Mell when things aren't going well. But have any of his appointments being universally criticised at the time? No. 

Is there anyone else out there prepared to put the money in, to enable us to get in the premier? 

Just think, if Mell kept his money in, but decided to let this forum decide on buying and selling of players And the hiring and firing of managers, you couldn't imagine the chaos. We'd have had about 18 managers in 18 months and a squad of about 80 players! 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

not really fair to distort the facts. He inherited (1) McClaren and (2) Clement as they were done under GSE but with his approval, I'm not sure (3) Wassall counts as it's now clear he was a stop-gap until (4) Pearson became free and fully paid up by Leicester, and (5) Powell is a caretaker. Considering you won't consider short term ones in your overall figure, why would you consider McClaren, Wassall and Powell to beat Morris with?

There is plenty of **** to throw at Morris without making stuff up.

What he thought he was getting with Pearson was the positive stuff.

Who is making stuff up ? Morris took over in May 15, I believe-correct me if I'm wrong?

All of the managers have been sacked whilst he has been at the helm, and apart from McLaren they all came in under his tenure.  I'm not including Powell in my figures, however unless Mel he is going to manage the club as well, then that still makes 5 for whoever comes in next.  I call a manager who has only been in charge for 1 or two games as a caretaker, anything above that were included within the figures.

[BBG83]

10 minutes ago, ram59 said:

It Is so easy to be critical of Mell when things aren't going well. But have any of his appointments being universally criticised at the time? No. 

Is there anyone else out there prepared to put the money in, to enable us to get in the premier? 

Just think, if Mell kept his money in, but decided to let this forum decide on buying and selling of players And the hiring and firing of managers, you couldn't imagine the chaos. We'd have had about 18 managers in 18 months and a squad of about 80 players! 

I was happy with the Pearson appointment as I was with Clement.

My gripe is the haste at removing these people without giving them a fair crack.

They should never have been appointed if there was a risk and Morris didn't have the backbone to give them time.

I don't buy this ruthless businessman ****.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Mel Morris will never get any stick from me.

Imagine just for a minute what you would do in his shoes. You had millions of pounds to invest in the football club that you've supported all of your life, would every decision you make be a business one or would some of them be made from the heart.

I would imagine that he has at least a 15 year plan that will take him into his early 70s and this plan isn't just the first team, its players as young as 6 years old that he is now creating a facility that is one of the best in the country if not in Europe. Our training centre is a jaw dropping experience if you've never been in there and is just about to get even better.

We should support this guy with every move, good or bad and keep singing his name from the stands. He is going to get it right for US, we will have a team in the Premiership very soon, it might not be next year or the year after but it will be soon.

He is one of our own and that doesn't come around very often so let's stick by his plans and support him every step of the way.

[JaguarRam]

I could listen all day but I have never, ever understood the criticism of Mel.

I hope he is our chairman for many, many years to come and I if I met him I would thank him for his contribution to the club.

[ram59]

I have to disagree about giving Clement a fair crack. At the time of his appointment, it was made clear that we were going to continue the 'Derby way'. Clement must have agreed to this, but after half of the season,  it was obvious to anyone watching the team, that this was not the case. So basically, he must have lied at the interview to get the job. 

Since then, i think Mell has realised how difficult it is to find a manager to play the 'Derby way'. We don't know what has happened between Mell and NP, but if a discussion between the two became violent, then there would have to be a going of their separate ways. 

Whilst he isn't perfect,  i find any likening of Mell to Fawaz and Cellino to be disgusting. If you've got a lot of money, it isn't easy to achieve success at a club, you need a fair bit of luck as well. But if your intentions are honourable, you spend your money to improve the club in any way possible. Compare our ground and training facilities with those at Leeds and forest.