Mel: Case for defence

[Mostyn6]

22 minutes ago, toddy said:

Tried to PM you but it will not work.

odd. Ask @David if something is wrong as my inbox was only 49% full.

[Highgate]

15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I'd have happily seen Mel go on a three month holiday, and Pearson carry on, and the players that have once again been given a stay of execution, aka "fresh start" were 'out'.

Pearson staying on would be the worst possible result as far as I'm concerned.  Never wanted him in wanted him here in the first place.  Although, after his appointment i was in favour of giving him a year to see how things went, he's managed us so badly so far, that the sooner he is a distant memory the better I'll like it.  A bit capricious of me, I know. 

[Day]

What's the error message?

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Pearson staying on would be the worst possible result as far as I'm concerned.  Never wanted him in wanted him here in the first place.  Although, after his appointment i was in favour of giving him a year to see how things went, he's managed us so badly so far, that the sooner he is a distant memory the better I'll like it.  A bit capricious of me, I know. 

whilst he was struggling for results, there was something he was doing that DOES need to be done. Last night's victory has just papered over the cracks as far as I am concerned.

We need a manager here long enough to a) suss who is/are the bad apples b) replace them

[Highgate]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

whilst he was struggling for results, there was something he was doing that DOES need to be done. Last night's victory has just papered over the cracks as far as I am concerned.

We need a manager here long enough to a) suss who is/are the bad apples b) replace them

True....or just ineffective apples, if i may stretch the metaphor beyond it's breaking point.  I'd rather that manager wasn't Pearson though, i get the feeling he may be a bad apple himself. 

[BBG83]

18 minutes ago, cannable said:

The defence didn't need tightening up. Up until the point at which Thorne, Eustace, Mascarell, Martin and Bent were injured we had the joint second best defensive record in the league. We broke a consecutive clean sheet record that season. 

As for you first paragraph; http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25420261

But it did go to pot, and as I remember it Keogh took a hell of a lot of crap towards the end of that season. So I think its fair to assume that it was mentioned on Clement's arrival.

Again, like Pearson, its easy for those who said it wouldn't work to say they were ****, but for others who think they would have come good in time, we won't ever know.

[cannable]

10 minutes ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

But it did go to pot, and as I remember it Keogh took a hell of a lot of crap towards the end of that season. So I think its fair to assume that it was mentioned on Clement's arrival.

Again, like Pearson, its easy for those who said it wouldn't work to say they were ****, but for others who think they would have come good in time, we won't ever know.

It went to pot when our first choice 'keeper picked up an injury in which he was playing through, both of our natural left-sided centre-halves, all three defensive midfielders were injured and our target man were all injured. The defends could have been improved - a footballing centre-half who is also as cool defensively as Shackell would have improved us greatly - but all we did was change the nature of the team.

But that's just it isn't it? If they truly bought in to the model that Mel is trying to introduce then they wouldn't have needed time - it would have been seemless. And don't tell me that it isn't possible because just look at Southampton and, up until recently, Swansea. 

[BBG83]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

It went to pot when our first choice 'keeper picked up an injury in which he was playing through, both of our natural left-sided centre-halves, all three defensive midfielders were injured and our target man were all injured. The defends could have been improved - a footballing centre-half who is also as cool defensively as Shackell would have improved us greatly - but all we did was change the nature of the team.

But that's just it isn't it? If they truly bought in to the model that Mel is trying to introduce then they wouldn't have needed time - it would have been seemless. And don't tell me that it isn't possible because just look at Southampton and, up until recently, Swansea. 

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. He's looking for a perfect manager and he isn't out there.

Or maybe he is, and Morris needs to stop looking at the obvious.

Before we appointed Clement he was widely recognized as one of the top coaches in football (Let's go for him). Pearson, in a lot of peoples mind won Leicester the title (Let's have him).

Now we're looking at Wagner, because his team are at the top of the league.

There doesn't appear to be a lot of thinking outside the box here does there?.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. He's looking for a perfect manager and he isn't out there.

Or maybe he is, and Morris needs to stop looking at the obvious.

Before we appointed Clement he was widely recognized as one of the top coaches in football (Let's go for him). Pearson, in a lot of peoples mind won Leicester the title (Let's have him).

Now we're looking at Wagner, because his team are at the top of the league.

There doesn't appear to be a lot of thinking outside the box here does there?.

Adkins - Pochettino - Koeman - Puel?

Martinez - Sousa - Rodgers - Laudrup - Monk for a bit…

Yeah, ridiculous…

Wagner would fit. Although I agree, I think it would be more by accident than he fit through design. 

[NewhallRam71]

I really find all the knocking of Mel distasteful. The same happened to Lionel Pickering, in the end as well.

We were crying out for an owner to invest when the Yanks were in charge, and Mel came out of nowhere. A Derby lad done good who was prepared to invest his time, money and reputation into the club. 

Every decision Mel has made so far has been lauded by the majority as the right decision at the time.

This is a guy who has stuck his neck out and his cash to improve our club. I don't have any idea of what the real story is re Mac, Clement and Pearson going, but I can say with certainty that whatever decisions are made they will be in the club's best interests.

With all the conjecture they may appear to reflect badly on Mel personally, but I don't buy any of that and I think he knows full well the implications, but will continue to do the right thing.

I trust Mel's judgement 100%.

[BBG83]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

Adkins - Pochettino - Koeman - Puel?

Martinez - Sousa - Rodgers - Laudrup - Monk for a bit…

Yeah, ridiculous…

Wagner would fit. Although I agree, I think it would be more by accident than he fit through design. 

Ok. Go with Adkins then? He's the only one we could attract.

I'd certainly like to see Laudrup at Derby - and if he failed to play Mel's way then well......

The other managers were only drawn to those clubs because they were Premier league or it Martinez case, he played for Swansea. We need to get real. Lets let Powell run with it and do our bloody research properly this time. Interview more than one or two people. Shut your ears from the fan noise and 100% choose who fits Derby County and the style of play we want. Make the decision, stick with it through tough times and believe in it.

He has to do that. Has to. I don't care if that coach comes from League Two, Japan, Canada, wherever. But they do need to know they're trusted and Mel believes in them. At the min, he only believes in the players and that isn't right.

[mwram1973]

On 9/28/2016 at 10:45, Super Johnny Russell said:

I was happy with the Pearson appointment as I was with Clement.

My gripe is the haste at removing these people without giving them a fair crack.

They should never have been appointed if there was a risk and Morris didn't have the backbone to give them time.

I don't buy this ruthless businessman ****.

Whether or not he is a ruthless businessman, he's obviously a highly successful one and if one of your employees gets in your face aggressively, as has been reported, you sack them. He is no different to any other boss in any corporation in the world. If you went guns blazing at your boss you'd be out the door too. Why should football be any different.

As has been said a million times Pearson has not been suspended FOR FOOTBALLING REASONS!!.

What part of that do you not understand.

I was pro Pearson from day one but if any of these reports are true I 100% back what MM has done.

[Gary Teale]

I dont know the big issue, Mel I believe is quite clear in what he wants, he expects the manager to have the team playing attacking football, try and get promotion and a focus on promoting youth. That's what he comes out and pretty much says and what I hear down the club when im there watching my lad. If the manger doesn't do any of them thing as Pearson didnt then I can see them not agreeing and there is only one winner like at any work place the boss. Someone like Powell may make him happy as his team play good football and he likes to promote youth. If he can get the results is another matter. 

[mwram1973]

2 minutes ago, emjlc02 said:

I dont know the big issue, Mel I believe is quite clear in what he wants, he expects the manager to have the team playing attacking football, try and get promotion and a focus on promoting youth. That's what he comes out and pretty much says and what I hear down the club when im there watching my lad. If the manger doesn't do any of them thing as Pearson didnt then I can see them not agreeing and there is only one winner like at any work place the boss. Someone like Powell may make him happy as his team play good football and he likes to promote youth. If he can get the results is another matter. 

Well he's made a good start 

[Gary Teale]

1 minute ago, mwram1973 said:

Well he's made a good start 

If a manager keeps winning I think even Mel would keep him 

 

[mwram1973]

1 minute ago, emjlc02 said:

If a manager keeps winning I think even Mel would keep him 

 

Now ya being silly 

[LazloW]

Yes, i do wonder why people criticise Mel for suspending Pearson if, as we are being led to believe, there has been a falling out of some kind. Why does a football manager (or, in some cases, player) always seem to get loads of support from fans when they are in trouble for being naughty (allegedly)? If their behaviour has been unacceptable,then what is the owner supposed to do? Just let them get on with it because its football?

In any walk of life, sometimes you have a boss you can't get on with. If that's the case, you can suck it up and get on with it, find a different job, discuss the problems with your boss in a constructive way (managing up) or address any unacceptable behaviour of the boss to either a higher level or - if one doesn't exist - some form of tribunal... I doubt the accepted  / professional way of dealing with it is by having - what the papers like to call - a bust up. Football has, for too long, considered itself outside the normal standards of behaviour which is why many of us are #amf.  

[SaintRam]

10 minutes ago, LazloW said:

Yes, i do wonder why people criticise Mel for suspending Pearson if, as we are being led to believe, there has been a falling out of some kind. Why does a football manager (or, in some cases, player) always seem to get loads of support from fans when they are in trouble for being naughty (allegedly)? If their behaviour has been unacceptable,then what is the owner supposed to do? Just let them get on with it because its football?

In any walk of life, sometimes you have a boss you can't get on with. If that's the case, you can suck it up and get on with it, find a different job, discuss the problems with your boss in a constructive way (managing up) or address any unacceptable behaviour of the boss to either a higher level or - if one doesn't exist - some form of tribunal... I doubt the accepted  / professional way of dealing with it is by having - what the papers like to call - a bust up. Football has, for too long, considered itself outside the normal standards of behaviour which is why many of us are #amf.  

Depends on the extent of "naughty" to be honest.

Many places have reported he had an argument with Mel about direction. Now there could be more to it, I think there is, but I've had many arguments with my boss without my boss feeling the need to sack me. Arguments happen between stubborn people. If it is indeed just an argument that has caused his suspension then I think MM is taking these differences of opinion far too personally.

If it's not merely that, then best to assume the MM didn't really have much option and leave it at that.

 

I fear we won't really know the true extent of it. But in that case, as a Derby fan, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the half of the conflict that is still at Derby rather than the fella who's left. Unhealthy to take it another way, in my opinion.

 

[jono]

2 hours ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

Or perhaps Mel wasn't truthful in saying that Clement wasn't doing as he was told. And should any manager stick to by the letter all the time. Surely sometimes other tactics are required to tighten things up, try things out to cover all scenarios, to combat better opposition if the manager feels they are better?.

I suspect Clements first task was to sure up the defense, even at the detriment of the attack, as that's where we'd previously failed.

He's appointed two managers and he's fallen out with them both. Says it all.

I dont think it does say it all. Two managers had significant spells of poor results and worse football. You might say decisions were hasty and impatient but we don't know what went on in Cardiff. 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Super Johnny Russell said:

Ok. Go with Adkins then? He's the only one we could attract.

I'd certainly like to see Laudrup at Derby - and if he failed to play Mel's way then well......

The other managers were only drawn to those clubs because they were Premier league or it Martinez case, he played for Swansea. We need to get real. Lets let Powell run with it and do our bloody research properly this time. Interview more than one or two people. Shut your ears from the fan noise and 100% choose who fits Derby County and the style of play we want. Make the decision, stick with it through tough times and believe in it.

He has to do that. Has to. I don't care if that coach comes from League Two, Japan, Canada, wherever. But they do need to know they're trusted and Mel believes in them. At the min, he only believes in the players and that isn't right.

I was just showing that it's possible! Three of those Swansea managers were appointed whilst they were in either the Championship or League One!

Think outside the box! How about we look at a team who employ a similar style of football to what we want - see if they employ the idea that the youth team's try and emulate that style of football and interview their under-21 boss?!