Johnny Russell

[cheron85]

5 minutes ago, toddy said:

He benched warmed a bit last season? I forget.

Started 37 games last year... Ince started 38...

So I'd suggest if Russell counts as a bench-warmer then so does Ince...

6 minutes ago, toddy said:

But with NP's possible formations its possible that he will use attacking wing backs. Wingers and wing backs are counter productive playing together especially with the squad players we currently have.

That's fairly speculative after a single pre-season game... Unless you have a direct line to the management I'd suggest we have very little idea what formation he'll play...

[Mafiabob]

3 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

So this goes to my point really... If he was terrible under Clement... But his stats were still impressive for the season as a whole... then surely he must have been the top winger in the league under Wassell? Otherwise the stats wouldn't balance out... 

Plus it really depends how you define a forward... I would say he is... BUT we've traditionally played him as a winger which in our formation I'd consider and attacking midfielder... And under Clement we were playing more like 4-5-1 than 4-3-3 (I think we actually play 4-1-2-2-1 but that's semantics)

No it doesn't, Think he's been very inconsistent throughout his career.

I don't blame Clement for his form at the time, remember Clough signed him as a striker initially.

I think he is a great player when on song, and his work rate is second to none. Also be happily be proved wrong if he has a belter of a season. Just want him to take a game or 6 by scruff of neck

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, Mafiabob said:

How many seasons he been here? 

Hes flattered to deceive for me since he signed. Flashes of great play and no doubt a talent. Not going to deny that. 

I just don't think he's as good as made out. He has the supporters no doubt, he's a fan favourite and I get that. Just think he's not quality.

As for the stat thing. 4 goals in 18 months I believe before his latest scoring run suggests a period of inconsistency..... Don't you agree? 

I definitely agree, but players can improve and I believe Johnny to be one of those who has. He scored a decent amount this season, assisted a fair few as well and has done it consistently throughout the season apart from 2 spells in which he was on the bench most of the time. 

I respect everyone's opinions about who we should sell and who we should keep, but I think most (not all) share their opinion on a player staying or leaving before fully thinking about it. For example, if Russell leaves, should we sign a replacement and if so, who? The only suggestion I've seen so far is McManaman and his stats throughout his career would suggest he's a downgrade on Johnny. If Russell leaves it's likely to be to a Championship rival, that isn't a smart idea really, is it? If we sell him and trust Razza or Blackman to step up, what if they flatter to deceive like last season? So many things should be considered when selling someone, it's not just as simple as, 'I don't really like him so get rid.'

[Mafiabob]

3 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

I definitely agree, but players can improve and I believe Johnny to be one of those who has.He scored a decent amount this season, assisted a fair few as well and has done it consistently throughout the season apart from 2 spells in which he was on the bench most of the time. 

I respect everyone's opinions about who we should sell and who we should keep, but I think most (not all) share their opinion on a player staying or leaving before fully thinking about it. For example, if Russell leaves, should we sign a replacement and if so, who? The only suggestion I've seen so far is McManaman and his stats throughout his career would suggest he's a downgrade on Johnny. If Russell leaves it's likely to be to a Championship rival, that isn't a smart idea really, is it? If we sell him and trust Razza or Blackman to step up, what if they flatter to deceive like last season? So many things should be considered when selling someone, it's not just as simple as, 'I don't really like him so get rid.'

Where have I said I don't really like him so get rid? 

The two points highlighted just shows the contradiction in the post. Blackman agree has been poor since his arrival. But what if he improves? Anyone can improve, not just select few..... He many or may not have a blinder of a season...... Same goes for Russell. 

As it stands I think Ince and Weiman are better for me. Hence why I think he'll end up coming off bench more. Be happy to be proved wrong as always and will state so. I'm not going to be upset if he goes. Also say that at stage of his career he'd be wanting 1st team football, obviously I'm second guessing at everything, like everyone on here is. ?

 

[Cam the Ram]

Just now, Mafiabob said:

Where have I said I don't really like him so get rid? 

The two points highlighted just shows the contradiction in the post. Blackman agree has been poor since his arrival. But what if he improves? Anyone can improve, not just select few..... He many or may not have a blinder of a season...... Same goes for Russell. 

As it stands I think Ince and Weiman are better for me. Hence why I think he'll end up coming off bench more. Be happy to be proved wrong as always and will state so. I'm not going to be upset if he goes. Also say that at stage of his career he'd be wanting 1st team football, obviously I'm second guessing at everything, like everyone on here is. ?

 

You said, "Get rid. 2 million tops...... Anything over and I would be snapping hands off." I know you didn't say it exactly, but valuing one of the top scoring wingers in the whole league at £2 million in today's market would suggest you aren't his biggest fan.

As for the rest, yes, Blackman can improve, but Russell already has. Why take the risk when we currently own one of the top Championship wingers from last season?

[Mafiabob]

2 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

You said, "Get rid. 2 million tops...... Anything over and I would be snapping hands off." I know you didn't say it exactly, but valuing one of the top scoring wingers in the whole league at £2 million in today's market would suggest you aren't his biggest fan.

As for the rest, yes, Blackman can improve, but Russell already has. Why take the risk when we currently own one of the top Championship wingers from last season?

We are going to agree and disagree, just don't think he's as good as we think. He had one good run this season in final few months. I'm sorry but I shan't be mourning his loss.

Also, if he was one of the top championship wingers..... Why hasn't a Premier League club come and take a chance on him? We used to slag Antonio off on here not many moons ago but he was streets ahead likes of Russell and has been one of West Hams best players. Yet we would dismiss him as no way get into our team...... 

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, Mafiabob said:

We are going to agree and disagree, just don't think he's as good as we think. He had one good run this season in final few months. I'm sorry but I shan't be mourning his loss.

Also, if he was one of the top championship wingers..... Why hasn't a Premier League club come and take a chance on him? We used to slag Antonio off on here not many moons ago but he was streets ahead likes of Russell and has been one of West Hams best players. Yet we would dismiss him as no way get into our team...... 

I wasn't one of those dismissing Antonio, I was one praying we managed to sign him at the time we were linked. And that argument of 'why hasn't a prem team taken a chance if he's so good' is just silly. No Prem team has yet taken a chance on Hughes, Martin, Forestieri, McCormack, Kodjia etc. That doesn't mean they aren't good players. There's so, so many variables that come into it, such as; will they fit many Prem team's systems? Does the player want to leave his current club. Can they afford the player? Do they already have a good enough player in that position etc.

[toddy]

1 hour ago, satty atwal said:

Im shocked how u can call russell surplus and put those 4 ahead of him. Ince weimann yes i see the argument.... but blackman and bennett? Really? Blackman has done nothing in his entire career bar a 3 month spell... as for bennett he will end up league 1 or 2.... about his level, seen absolutely nothing from him since he broke thru all those years ago. Totally disagree with the russell is surplus comment mate. Would only sell him if an extraordinary offer came in. Can obviously play on the wing, and imo would be an exceptional wing back at this level

You forgot to include Ince  and Weimann in his position as well as those that you did mention.

He is full of running but he cannot tackle to play wing back .

Fozzie and Christie all day long in that position.

 

[cannable]

9 hours ago, TopRam said:

Really struggling too see how anyone can think russell is worth 5 million? Even in today's market, he's worth no more than 2/3 and that's asking a lot, he works hard yes but he just isn't good enough.... He plays well for 2 games then does nothing shows abit off passion And everyone loves him, he's the most frustrating player I've seen for a while... Anything over 1.5 and I'd sell 

Since joining us he's had a direct hand in a goal every 160.5 minutes. For a winger that's a decent record.

He might not be particularly intelligent or technically gifted and bar the odd screamer doesn't really produce moments of sheer magic but he produces the numbers in this division and a lot of teams will pay over the nose for that.

[toddy]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Started 37 games last year... Ince started 38...

So I'd suggest if Russell counts as a bench-warmer then so does Ince...

That's fairly speculative after a single pre-season game... Unless you have a direct line to the management I'd suggest we have very little idea what formation he'll play...

Agreed, but we have a surplus of JR type of players at the moment and NP has yet to bring in those that his does want here.

We need some prospective here, JR is a good championship player but no more than that, I have already said I am not a Russell basher, but we have to be realistic here.

 I do think some fans elevate some players to a higher level than they really are.

 

 

[nottingram]

8 minutes ago, toddy said:

Agreed, but we have a surplus of JR type of players at the moment and NP has yet to bring in those that his does want here.

We need some prospective here, JR is a good championship player but no more than that, I have already said I am not a Russell basher, but we have to be realistic here.

 I do think some fans elevate some players to a higher level than they really are.

 

 

He's a good Championship player? And we're in the Championship? Sounds to me like he's ideal for us to be honest.

[Dcfcrams89]

On his day he's easily one of our better players, just wish his day was more often.

he has bags of pace yet so often doesn't use it, likewise he has an excellent strike on him ( forest and Bolton goals) just doesn't have enough efforts at goal. 

Lets see if Pearson can get more consistency into his game 

[Purpleram]

Did no-one else actually go to the games last season, for the most part he was awful. Never stopped running blah blah blah, just an average Championship/League 1 player who is playing for a team with designs on promotion.

[toddy]

2 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

Did no-one else actually go to the games last season, for the most part he was awful. Never stopped running blah blah blah, just an average Championship/League 1 player who is playing for a team with designs on promotion.

You just wait till the Johnny Russell lovers read this. they'll be hell to pay!

[rynny]

18 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

Did no-one else actually go to the games last season, for the most part he was awful. Never stopped running blah blah blah, just an average Championship/League 1 player who is playing for a team with designs on promotion.

Most of the team were poor last season and played within themselves.

Any reply to my reply of where you said he doesn't bring anything to the team? 

[Alph]

9 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

Russell wouldn't be so underrated by some if he wasn't so overrated by some.

He's the sort of player that's really popular with your mates kids and that bloke who goes on about players that run around a lot when he's not moaning that everyone who plays for England is an overpaid puff who isn't fit to wear the shirt.

And that makes him unpopular with the cynics who like to be contradictory to the mass opinion as often as possible.

In reality he's just a top end Championship winger who's popular with teammates and fans. Blows hot and cold like all wingers at this level do, but ultimately we'd only replace him with a similar winger that people would moan about if he left.

Keep him, unless it's silly money.

Yes!! 

Although I don't berate him to go against the grain. I just get angry that he gets praised for doing something that looks good but isn't. 

For example hitting the byline at full speed and crossing. 

As a coach you would be able to tell your defenders almost the exact trajectory and area that the ball can hit. Chances of being able to defend this are really high. Especially if the "beaten" full back runs him off.

And it is often easily defended. 

 

[Doodle]

54 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

Did no-one else actually go to the games last season, for the most part he was awful. Never stopped running blah blah blah, just an average Championship/League 1 player who is playing for a team with designs on promotion.

I went to all games last season. I'm not a great fan of Johnny, he is  only good for 4/5 games a season and would gladly sell for 3 million. But to describe him as awful is just plain ignorance. I've seen awful players in a derby shirt and he's not one of em. Show some respect 

[Mr Tibbs]

Whilst I don't think Russell is anything spectacular it's harsh to see "league 1" in the same sentence as his name when judging his ability. 

He is a standard Championship winger who has really good patches followed by really poor patches, filled in by a lot of 6.5/10 performances where he doesn't do much wrong or right.  (which kind of describes the ultimate standard Championship player tbh?). 

Technically poor but does make up for that deficiency a little through sheer determination and grit. Would be sad to see him leave but just like Hendrick, if a decent offer came in I wouldn't mind us selling. Either way, we're in a position where we don't have to sell so the fee's we're likely to give in to will be well above the players' actual worth. 

[Leicester Ram]

34 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Yes!! 

Although I don't berate him to go against the grain. I just get angry that he gets praised for doing something that looks good but isn't. 

For example hitting the byline at full speed and crossing. 

As a coach you would be able to tell your defenders almost the exact trajectory and area that the ball can hit. Chances of being able to defend this are really high. Especially if the "beaten" full back runs him off.

And it is often easily defended. 

 

I remember one game where Johnny blustered down the wing only to run the ball out of play and got applauded by the South Stand. Then a few minutes later Dawkins passed the ball back in a similar situation when nothing was on and the South Stand did a very loud collective groan.

I used to really rate Dawkins, so I got pretty irritated at stuff like that, but I always recognised it wasn't Russell's fault, it was the fans fault. I wish that players like Forsyth, Dawkins, Mascarell, Shotton and Christie (in 14/15) had got similar treatment to Russell, it would have definitely improved their confidence when I think they were completely shot of I towards the end of that season.

But that wasn't Russell's fault and doesn't mean he's average.

Basically, let's all hate each other, not the players.

[Bris Vegas]

I like Russell, but he doesn't half irritate me when he just runs with his head down and ignores easy, more suitable options. Always tries a hollywood ball over the top too which never comes off.

Having said that, he does have quality when he gets it right and towards the end of last season he looked like a top-end Championship winger, playing with confidence.

His assist for Darren Bent's goal against Sheff Wed in particular was brilliant.

If he was more consistent, he'd already be playing at a higher level. So for us to get rid of him, it would be pretty daft as we'd only find ourselves buying a similar player who blows hot and cold.