Are you a moron?

[ColonelBlimp]

9 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Does it also mean if we go to an intimidating away ground and they boo our players they are allowed to lose and cry?

I do believe a home crowd should always act as a 12th man and during the 90 minutes act with complete blind passion and fervour but seriously our current lack of Form sits squarely with players and management..not the fans.

I dream of a return to the Baseball Ground atmosphere but the players need to show that passion as well.

 

There is a banner in the North Stand about being the 12th man. As it's so quiet in there I wonder if they've got a little confused in some way.

Maybe this fictitious 12th man are waiting for the tea and biscuits to come round, maybe they're on a jolly to Eastbourne?

Certainly weren't there yesterday.

[davenportram]

its amazing that when under Clough poor form was put down to poor tactics, players asked to do roles they couldn't etc..... Now its the fans fault.

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, davenportram said:

its amazing that when under Clough poor form was put down to poor tactics, players asked to do roles they couldn't etc..... Now its the fans fault.

remind me when we were top/2nd/3rd under Clough! AND, the fans are worse to players now than then.

[tomsdubs]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

remind me when we were top/2nd/3rd under Clough! AND, the fans are worse to players now than then.

When we spent no money and pretty much expected to get beat? You can't even begin to compare. Fans just stopped going all together back then, what were our attendances down to?

[Mostyn6]

Just now, tomsdubs said:

When we spent no money and pretty much expected to get beat? You can't even begin to compare. Fans just stopped going all together back then, what were our attendances down to?

there are so many answers in your answer that it's very revealing as to your mindset.

-you are only a fan now Clough has gone

-you are only a fan cos money is being spent

-you EXPECT and don't accept that your sense of entitlement is not fulfilled.

-there are times when you are a supporter and times when you are not.

[Mr Tibbs]

7 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

When we spent no money and pretty much expected to get beat? You can't even begin to compare. Fans just stopped going all together back then, what were our attendances down to?

Apart from about 25k of us, consistently. Every week. The core is always the same, we just add the fairweathers when we're decent.

[tomsdubs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Apart from about 25k of us, consistently. Every week. The core is always the same, we just add the fairweathers when we're decent.

Remember it dropped below that... But yeah always the same muppets turn out when we're winning. Get a few of them round me shouting stupid stuff. "That Martin is ******* ****" Great insight there buddy.

[StockholmRam]

This thread put me in a mindset again of years gone by when I first started polling up to watch our beloved team. As I remember it we went along and just sang and clapped anyway. In those days the team was nearly always great and most opposition teams came to the Baseball Ground and were dealt with with ease. So I can't say in the beginning of my supporting days if we sang or or not on bad days! The moaners were there then for sure.  The Baseball Ground sure made for a better atmosphere than our current stadium. I've always wished we had a " proper" song though like West Ham or Liverpool. I think our songs are cr@p in general. 

Moving on to 80s.. We watched some dross then in div3 and up until then but I'm sure we still sang a lot and didn't have dull fans days. Atmosphere was still great. Or is my old mind playing tricks? 

I find the whole experience in iPro a bit " easy" and somewhat laboured compared to our previous experiences at BBG. 

[davenportram]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

remind me when we were top/2nd/3rd under Clough! AND, the fans are worse to players now than then.

ah yes. But we now have a top manager, top players etc... So the only reason for poor performances must be the fans pressure. Unless of course the top managers we've had since Clough aren't actually good enough at their job.

 

personally I think blaming the dip in form on the fans and calling them ****** is just a way of deflecting any blame from the management.

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, davenportram said:

ah yes. But we now have a top manager, top players etc... So the only reason for poor performances must be the fans pressure. Unless of course the top managers we've had since Clough aren't actually good enough at their job.

 

personally I think blaming the dip in form on the fans and calling them ****** is just a way of deflecting any blame from the management.

Dav, I think my whole point either escapes you or you are ignoring it cos it's me making it!

My point is that THIS manager and THIS team got us to the top of the league, yet fans still ruined the feelgood factor and have (in MY convinced opinion) ruined the confidence of players that have previously shown to be mentally fragile.

The Clough era is long gone and is hard to find relevance except to say that fans accepted dross and poor performances as part and parcel of being a fan, whereas now there is a sense of entitlement, which there shouldn't be.

You're an old-timer Dav, in a respectful way, and you experienced the lows of all lows being a Derby fan, and I bet you back in the day, there was never such treachery in the stands, especially when we are near the top of the league.

[davenportram]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

Dav, I think my whole point either escapes you or you are ignoring it cos it's me making it!

My point is that THIS manager and THIS team got us to the top of the league, yet fans still ruined the feelgood factor and have (in MY convinced opinion) ruined the confidence of players that have previously shown to be mentally fragile.

The Clough era is long gone and is hard to find relevance except to say that fans accepted dross and poor performances as part and parcel of being a fan, whereas now there is a sense of entitlement, which there shouldn't be.

You're an old-timer Dav, in a respectful way, and you experienced the lows of all lows being a Derby fan, and I bet you back in the day, there was never such treachery in the stands, especially when we are near the top of the league.

I was too young to remember those times, had an enforced absence during the Jim Smith days due to growing up and being skint.

I dint think the fans accepted dross, more realistic expectation with the quality of players available. Maybe expectations aren't realistic now. Personally I don't think we are as good as is believed or expected.

However I fundamentally disagree that the fans are causing the slump. Its the actual ability of our players together with the management decisions that are causing poor performances. The fans attitude is a symptom of this not the cause. We have won games where we "haven't been at our best" maybe we actually were but we don't want to admit it.

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, davenportram said:

I was too young to remember those times, had an enforced absence during the Jim Smith days due to growing up and being skint.

I dint think the fans accepted dross, more realistic expectation with the quality of players available. Maybe expectations aren't realistic now. Personally I don't think we are as good as is believed or expected.

However I fundamentally disagree that the fans are causing the slump. Its the actual ability of our players together with the management decisions that are causing poor performances. The fans attitude is a symptom of this not the cause. We have won games where we "haven't been at our best" maybe we actually were but we don't want to admit it.

Hit the nail on the head there.

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, StockholmRam said:

This thread put me in a mindset again of years gone by when I first started polling up to watch our beloved team. As I remember it we went along and just sang and clapped anyway. In those days the team was nearly always great and most opposition teams came to the Baseball Ground and were dealt with with ease. So I can't say in the beginning of my supporting days if we sang or or not on bad days! The moaners were there then for sure.  The Baseball Ground sure made for a better atmosphere than our current stadium. I've always wished we had a " proper" song though like West Ham or Liverpool. I think our songs are cr@p in general. 

Moving on to 80s.. We watched some dross then in div3 and up until then but I'm sure we still sang a lot and didn't have dull fans days. Atmosphere was still great. Or is my old mind playing tricks? 

I find the whole experience in iPro a bit " easy" and somewhat laboured compared to our previous experiences at BBG. 

But just imagine how much better it could have been if we'd had a man with a microphone telling us to wave to the camera.

[VulcanRam]

I've only just joined in this so apologies if this point has been made before, as a way of offering a different perspective.

If I provided to a client of mine sub standard and shoddy work and they were happy enough and said well done etc I'd continue providing sub standard work because I would have no incentive to improve.

If I provided the work and they went nuts, said it wasn't good enough and I need to get my act together, I'd pull my socks up pretty quickly and improve, for fear of getting the chop.

Accepting mediocrity has for too long been a trait of our supporters. Now we are no longer accepting mediocrity. Money has been spent, many players have been brought in and the bar has been raised. This squad is good enough to get to the top of the league because they have done it. The players know that if they fall below a standard they will be criticised for it. 

Applauding them off the pitch when they've chucked in two wretched performances like this is adding to the problem, not helping it. 

[TroyDyer]

Maybe they perform badly because they know that if they do perform badly, the fans will get the blame for moaning anyway. 

[Mr Tibbs]

6 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Applauding them off the pitch when they've chucked in two wretched performances like this is adding to the problem, not helping it. 

I agree totally but nobody is asking for that. They're asking for the other side to be stopped.

[trevor1946]

Mostyn 6 you get better with time,and more twisted,fans have always been fickle,and happy when the teams winning and critical when losing,no one criticised Clough,more than you,and you felt you had the right to give your opinion,.

Now you think the fans are to blame,for a bad patch,The tight knit unit that was Derby County seems frail at the moment.

Clough is not involved with present day activities,the past is faded now,and working on a shoestring history

Sam Rush moved us forward,to a new system of recruiting players,and Mel paid the yanks off,and invested heavily in the

Club,Bent=Weimann -Ince brought in to give us goals,Shackell to bolster the defense,Butterfield-=-Johnson to add to a 

quality midfield.,A top head coach was brought onboard,Maclaren was now history ,and life after Clough is expensive

ALL this progress under Mac left us  still in the Championship,and now we move to a new time with Derby now throwing money at it,and the fans expect,,why not

But in no way are fans to blame for any clubs failure ,We follow the club leads,And this time we cant blame the manager

But we  have a blip no problem

 

 

[Mostyn6]

20 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I've only just joined in this so apologies if this point has been made before, as a way of offering a different perspective.

If I provided to a client of mine sub standard and shoddy work and they were happy enough and said well done etc I'd continue providing sub standard work because I would have no incentive to improve.

If I provided the work and they went nuts, said it wasn't good enough and I need to get my act together, I'd pull my socks up pretty quickly and improve, for fear of getting the chop.

Accepting mediocrity has for too long been a trait of our supporters. Now we are no longer accepting mediocrity. Money has been spent, many players have been brought in and the bar has been raised. This squad is good enough to get to the top of the league because they have done it. The players know that if they fall below a standard they will be criticised for it. 

Applauding them off the pitch when they've chucked in two wretched performances like this is adding to the problem, not helping it. 

Do you regard being top of the league, then 2nd at New Year as "shoddy" then?

15 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

Maybe they perform badly because they know that if they do perform badly, the fans will get the blame for moaning anyway. 

well, which would you prefer, results or performance? Do you want promotion or just hollywood football?

[RamuelLJackson]

1 hour ago, VulcanRam said:

If I provided to a client of mine sub standard and shoddy work and they were happy enough and said well done etc I'd continue providing sub standard work because I would have no incentive to improve.

If I provided the work and they went nuts, said it wasn't good enough and I need to get my act together, I'd pull my socks up pretty quickly and improve, for fear of getting the chop.

How about if you were doing a really tough job and working your behind off but things weren't going well? And then the customers stood around yelling abuse at you? Is it more likely you'd do a better job or just mentally think "sod the lot of you"?

[curb]

Yes, I'm a moron.

oh sorry, I thought you said Mormon.

 

Peace to you and your family, brother.