Newcastle United 2015-16 season

[AndyinLiverpool]

Toon Forum…Re: Newcastle Utd vs Sheffield Wednesday - 23/09/15

toonboy984 wrote: Pardew doesn’t seem so bad now does he?.....

MIFUNE: At least we occasionally looked like a team capable of winning a match. Something that we haven't looked like since.

Teeheehee

[Alph]

I don't follow, so if you liked McClaren, winning more than we lose for the first time in years, going to away games believing we will win every time, scoring a record number of goals, putting 5 past teams on numerous occasions, dancing in the rain against Brighton in a PO hammering then you're somehow disloyal? 

Is there not an argument that by still wanting McClaren back that you are loyal? By those same principals? 

Fans are loyal to the badge. Not managers and players. Yet they expect loyalty back. In the same way they can call a player all the names under the sun and then cry if he blows them a kiss (Halford), waves a flag (Tyson) or kisses his badge (Gunter). 

There is no loyalty in football. AT ALL. Not from anyone to anyone else. There's a few loyal to the badge but do you think we'd get 28,000 in League 2? Where was the rush for away tickets 4 years ago? 

Everyone does what's best for themselves. If some want Mac back at Derby then that doesn't make them disloyal. They want the best for Derby. 

As for the talk about money and family. Let his private life be private. None of us have enough info to form conclusions. Life isn't black and white. 

And Nigel Clough wasn't here for free. Paul Clement isn't here for free. He's spent more than McClaren so if it's the loyal, diamond in the rough story you're looking for then you surely can't support Clement? 

[Alph]

Toon Forum…Re: Newcastle Utd vs Sheffield Wednesday - 23/09/15

toonboy984 wrote: Pardew doesn’t seem so bad now does he?.....

MIFUNE: At least we occasionally looked like a team capable of winning a match. Something that we haven't looked like since.

Didn't look bad to the rest of us at the time when they all felt they should be winning the world cup. 

Yet here they are again talking after wanting Carver sacked begining to call for McClaren's head.

Maybe it's time they had a reality check? Long overdue

 

[Inverurie Ram]

Clough's football was sometimes entertaining and sometimes not.

McClaren's football was sometimes entertaining and sometimes not.

We can all judge and can form our opinions and we are all entitled to them, but I would pick Clough ahead of McClaren for sorting out the club and putting it back on the map in a positive position, before McClaren stepped in to the club when it was in a far better position, than when Clough stepped in.

Both did well, but I personally believe Clough put more work in, and I for one, will always be thankful and will appreciate the work of a loyal man ahead of one in it for reasons that appear to me more for his own self gain and whom appeared to quickly jump to another club on a couple of occasions for all the reasons that don't appeal to me, greed and promotion of himself.

Team game, one for all and all for one.

 

[Day]

Didn't Clough leave Burton on the verge of promotion that almost went tits up? 

Also no club as far as I'm aware ever came in for Clough during his time here so his "loyalty" was never tested. He walked into another job fairly quickly the same way McClaren has after both being sacked.

No denying the club wasn't in a better position than when Clough stepped in, McClaren left us in a pretty good state as well to build on.

I'am surprised you would choose Clough again if offered, having stepped down to League 1 with some of the best players in the league failed to get promoted. Reading what the Sheffield United fans were saying online it was a similar story to here.

Bradley Johnson as left back and Christie up front anyone? 

[Alph]

I appreciate the work of both. 

They are part of the same journey. They aren't rivals. 

McClaren's football was more often entertaining than Clough's on waaaaay more occasions 

A year ago you would have agreed. When we were celebrating 5-0 over Forest, dismantling Brighton, playing teams off the park on their own turf. Making the ipro what it is today, a place where time wasting and celebrating draws like wins is common amongst the visitors. 

This takes nothing away from the rebuild job that Nigel did. Nigel had to endure so much frustration. It's a club where expectation is usually higher than what's reasonable. We're a hard bunch to keep happy and he had to bring the costs down without reducing the quality. It was neccessary. It wasn't much fun though. At times we had to be 2-0 up in the 80th minute just to draw. Away games we always would "take a point". At home we would cling on for dear life at times. Teams would come and completely boss us like Norwich and Cardiff and Hull. It wasn't all dull. But it mostly was. We lost more than we won every year. I'd imagine our GD was never great? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

I don't follow, so if you liked McClaren, winning more than we lose for the first time in years, going to away games believing we will win every time, scoring a record number of goals, putting 5 past teams on numerous occasions, dancing in the rain against Brighton in a PO hammering then you're somehow disloyal? 

Is there not an argument that by still wanting McClaren back that you are loyal? By those same principals? 

Fans are loyal to the badge. Not managers and players. Yet they expect loyalty back. In the same way they can call a player all the names under the sun and then cry if he blows them a kiss (Halford), waves a flag (Tyson) or kisses his badge (Gunter). 

There is no loyalty in football. AT ALL. Not from anyone to anyone else. There's a few loyal to the badge but do you think we'd get 28,000 in League 2? Where was the rush for away tickets 4 years ago? 

Everyone does what's best for themselves. If some want Mac back at Derby then that doesn't make them disloyal. They want the best for Derby. 

As for the talk about money and family. Let his private life be private. None of us have enough info to form conclusions. Life isn't black and white. 

And Nigel Clough wasn't here for free. Paul Clement isn't here for free. He's spent more than McClaren so if it's the loyal, diamond in the rough story you're looking for then you surely can't support Clement? 

We talking about love here.

When someone leaves your club, it feels like betrayal.

There's no point in rationalising it. Who rationalises their girlfriend leaving them with a calm, considered, 'Oh well, she was just acting in her own interests. Her new bloke has more money, a bigger house etc.'? You thought all along that you were happy together but then she ups and goes, you start wondering how long this has been going on, who else knew, the lies.

And you hope it all goes tits up for her.

[Day]

But we dumped McClaren how can we act like the bitter and twisted ex?

Surely this is one of those, sorry it's not working out between us and I think it's best we break up, you hope she's ok and will find someone else eventually, she's jumped straight into bed with a low life but what can you do, you broke up with her. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

After she confessed she'd been chasing that other bloke, you chucked all her stuff out the window and told her to sling her hook. To save face you tell everyone that it was just not working out and that it was time to move on.

Bitterness quotient intact.

[Day]

Or we couldn't handle having an attractive girlfriend and the attention she got, despite telling you she's just thinking about us and not anybody else. We dump her anyway because she may have had thoughts about another man and we couldn't handle that. Now we hate her for being so god damn good looking and having lots of attention, when she picks up a new fella we get all butt hurt. 

We should stick to mingers from now on.

#BringBackClough 

[AndyinLiverpool]

There - we have a version each and never the twain shall meet.

[Anon]

I don't like your analogy because it brings too much emotion into things. This is people's jobs we're talking about. How would you react if your boss came up to you one morning and said, "I notice Competitor Corp Ltd have been browsing your Linkedin profile, so I want you to state unequivocally in front of the entire office that you will not leave the company no matter what they offer you.".

Then, 6 months down the line, you get called into the manager's office. "We failed to meet the deadline for our big order and it's all your fault. I know the lads on the shop floor have been sat around picking their arses for the last few months, but they couldn't concentrate because they were so worried you might leave and go to Competitor Corp. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to let you go."

[ilkleyram]

But the practical effect is still the same.  She's gone.  Move on, and upwards. Sod the reasons why.  Bitch.

 

[Day]

I don't like your analogy because it brings too much emotion into things. This is people's jobs we're talking about. How would you react if your boss came up to you one morning and said, "I notice Competitor Corp Ltd have been browsing your Linkedin profile, so I want you to state unequivocally in front of the entire office that you will not leave the company no matter what they offer you.".

Then, 6 months down the line, you get called into the manager's office. "We failed to meet the deadline for our big order and it's all your fault. I know the lads on the shop floor have been sat around picking their arses for the last few months, but they couldn't concentrate because they were so worried you might leave and go to Competitor Corp. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to let you go."

Who picks their arse when they are worried? ?

[Anon]

Who picks their arse when they are worried? ?

The same people who stop trying to play good football when they're worried. So, in reality, no one.

[Ninos]

bottom line : if you a) can't manage with a better team to secure a home draw against a mediocre side with nothing to play for on the last day of the season and you proceed to bottle that critical game 0-3 and b) you can't get to penalty kicks with over 60 mins of football to play and a one man advantage, and  c) you can't keep a team top of the league in January in a playoff spot after your club does the best business in the window to add quality and depth and d) you can't get a home draw for England against a side who had nothing to play for, then you aren't cut out for management. 

All this bottling at Newcastle is no surprise - and the first few minutes v sheff wed typified the mentality. At this moment, you'd be hard pressed to find a worse manager and bigger bottler in the football leagues. That's a fact. So next comes the real question as to why that is and you can't keep blaming the players or injuries - that's what bad managers do. Good managers - aka Eddie Howe and lots of others - create both good football and good results and they often do it with very average players, some of which as a result of those very managers can become stars.

Most derby fans know the above - where I'm in the minority is that I don't believe that SM had to show loyalty to us (in many ways this is a game which is simply an aggregate of individuals and their work objectives) so all he had to show regardless of privately wanting to manage Newcastle was that he could get results in critical games and not bottle, and that's something he couldn't do, and something he's hardly ever been able to do. You can't keep failing and failing and expect to be considered good at what you do.

At DCFC we are all for beautiful football, but we can't build it on a junk defense or have no clue how to organise a defensive unit. Clement knows what he's doing and the jury is out on whether he will deliver but what we can see is that he has built from the back and we are becoming a beast of a team - one that looks impregnable. The passing is very good as the stats show and the flair will come (even though we are missing two flair players in will and Bryson. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

I don't like your analogy because it brings too much emotion into things. This is people's jobs we're talking about. How would you react if your boss came up to you one morning and said, "I notice Competitor Corp Ltd have been browsing your Linkedin profile, so I want you to state unequivocally in front of the entire office that you will not leave the company no matter what they offer you.".

Then, 6 months down the line, you get called into the manager's office. "We failed to meet the deadline for our big order and it's all your fault. I know the lads on the shop floor have been sat around picking their arses for the last few months, but they couldn't concentrate because they were so worried you might leave and go to Competitor Corp. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to let you go."

Jobs schmobs. It's my football team. Of course there's emotion in it.

Otherwise, there's no point to football at all.

Incidentally, a colleague of mine has an interesting theory - that McClaren wants to retire at the end of this year, so a payoff from Derby and a payoff from a club with more money than sense and which doesn't keep managers is an ideal scenario for him. I liked that one.

 

[Anon]

Jobs schmobs. It's my football team. Of course there's emotion in it.

Otherwise, there's no point to football at all.

Broadly speaking, I agree, but surely you understand that this isn't the case for the people who actually make their living from the game.

If you apply this strict logic about never entertaining offers from other clubs there can't be many managers or players you don't despise. What about Craig Bryson? He didn't come out and state that he wasn't interested in a move to Burnley and ended up with a nice wage increase. If I applied the same conspiracy theorist logic you're happy to indulge in with McClaren to that situation I could quite easily surmise that Bryson purposefully underperformed last season either because he'd secured the money and no longer cared or because he wanted to encourage us to sell.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Broadly speaking, I agree, but surely you understand that this isn't the case for the people who actually make their living from the game.

If you apply this strict logic about never entertaining offers from other clubs there can't be many managers or players you don't despise. What about Craig Bryson? He didn't come out and state that he wasn't interested in a move to Burnley and ended up with a nice wage increase. If I applied the same conspiracy theorist logic you're happy to indulge in with McClaren to that situation I could quite easily surmise that Bryson purposefully underperformed last season either because he'd secured the money and no longer cared or because he wanted to encourage us to sell.

Broadly speaking, I couldn't give a stuff about managers' jobs. They choose to put themselves up for this and know the consequences. 

The conspiracy theory is light-hearted. However, McClaren surely didn't want to take the Newcastle job for job security, did he? So some other motive is at play. Unless he's a moron who has no idea what happens to managers at Newcastle.

This situation with Newcastle this season is not merely predictable, it was inevitable. Fans with preposterously high expectations, an owner with a God complex and a manager with a big enough ego to think he can please them all.

Perhaps I am being unreasonable but I'm glad it's going badly for him, the owner and the fans. He's made his bed and I am happy it is uncomfortable.

 

[Mostyn6]

@Ninos I cannot agree with that. NO manager can recover a player's fears once the boo-boys are on their back 3 minutes into a game. If you look at those games, we started alright (more often than not), but if we weren't strolling to an epic victory, the disgraceful fans with their "I pay my money, I should be allowed to hurl abuse and threats" attitude would pipe up and ruin whatever frail confidence the team had. There's nothing a manager can do about that. It's not about McClaren's bottle. He doesn't need to have bottle during games.