FA to look at introduction of B teams

[bcnram]

Agree with a lot of this.

 

The reality of the issue is, the reason why clubs aren't introducing young English players is because not many of them are actually any good. If a young player is good enough, he gets a game. Simple as that.

 

Southampton aren't being brave by playing lots of players from the academy, it's just that their academy is producing players worth playing.

You are spot on with that. Now we have to ask ourselves why are they not good enough? If you listen to many of the professionals (Hoddle, Wilkinson, McClaren, Wenger etc.) they will tell you that one of the reasons is that there is an abyss around the ages of 18-21 when they haven't developed yet into first team players, where there is little competitive football available. What is the answer to this? Stick our heads in the sand and hope it gets better, make a few changes that will give these youngsters the competitive football that they need to help their development, or another solution that has yet to be suggested? 

[CumbrianRam]

Made me laugh a bit

 

He added there was a lot of "enthusiasm from the big clubs".

"Liverpool, the Manchester clubs, Stoke, Tottenham - they have no problems with me mentioning them on this - so quite a lot of clubs recognise the problem they have got," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27327502

[Alph]

I hate the national side, the FA and Premier Greed. It's an orgy of cnuts.

From the ages of 5-15 you've got coaches/parents telling kids it's all about winning. "You should have got rid, put in row Z, if in doubt put it out, put it in the mixer, down the line, over the top..."

What? And they aren't technical players at 18? Why, let's introduce another league so Chelsea can play their reserves.

The problem isn't with our 17/18 yr olds. It's too late by then. Add another 5 leagues. Have a Derby County A-Z of teams. Makes no difference.

By the time clubs get hold of most of these lads it's too late.

What everyone really wants is the entire football league to be a training ground for the Premiership. If they send up the best English talent then maybe the national side will improve. If not then atleast the PL will remain elite.

I don't know why and I expect to get slated for this but I won't change... I love seeing PL sides get beat in Europe. I love seeing the national side get the runaround by a country we are too ignorant to acknowledge.

I despise the English football pyramid and mentality. I love DCFC but not by choice.

Well played Sky Sports. Well played.

[Duracell]

You are spot on with that. Now we have to ask ourselves why are they not good enough? If you listen to many of the professionals (Hoddle, Wilkinson, McClaren, Wenger etc.) they will tell you that one of the reasons is that there is an abyss around the ages of 18-21 when they haven't developed yet into first team players, where there is little competitive football available. What is the answer to this? Stick our heads in the sand and hope it gets better, make a few changes that will give these youngsters the competitive football that they need to help their development, or another solution that has yet to be suggested? 

That's the Premier League's problem though. Don't punish the lower league clubs for the Premier League's inability to find something to do with their young talent.

 

How many players aged 18-21 are falling by the way side anyway because of a lack of first team football? If you're a good enough player, you'll get played. It's not like there's a heap of Barkleys, Sterling and Januzajs playing in the U21 system, unable to get game time.

 

We're just not producing the right kind of players, that's the main issue.. What's the point in tearing up the league system just so we can produce EVEN MORE pacey wingers, workman-like central midfielders and target men?

[bcnram]

That's the Premier League's problem though. Don't punish the lower league clubs for the Premier League's inability to find something to do with their young talent.

 

How many players aged 18-21 are falling by the way side anyway because of a lack of first team football? If you're a good enough player, you'll get played. It's not like there's a heap of Barkleys, Sterling and Januzajs playing in the U21 system, unable to get game time.

 

We're just not producing the right kind of players, that's the main issue.. What's the point in tearing up the league system just so we can produce EVEN MORE pacey wingers, workman-like central midfielders and target men?

Not just the Premier Leagues problem though, also English footballs problem. I don't see how lower league teams are being punished. I may be wrong but I don't see too many Premier B teams being a huge success against some decent teams at that level.

No idea how many English 18-21 year olds are falling by the wayside. The problem is that our players of that age group are not getting proper competitive games against adults to help their development. If they were then maybe we would have more Barkleys & Sterlings knocking at the door at the highest level.

You are right!! we are just not producing the right sort of players. We should be producing players of that age, who have had the opportunity to develop in a competitive environment against experienced adult players in proper stadia with hostile crowds. That is what the Spanish have over us (their players of that age on average play 2.6 times more competitive football), or the Germans, or the French and Belgians and Dutch and so on and so on who have all opened their eyes to what is required. Or, we could do nothing...

[StaffsRam]

Greg Dyke - FFS, we laugh our t1ts off when Blatter of Platini come out with crazy **** like this. Now you're trying to surrender our moral high ground to them. Pr1ck.

[bcnram]

Greg Dyke - FFS, we laugh our t1ts off when Blatter of Platini come out with crazy **** like this. Now you're trying to surrender our moral high ground to them. Pr1ck.

Your own club manager is right behind this idea :-)

[Mafiabob]

What makes me laugh is all these ***** of football writers. Love to see them run the FA. It would e in ruins within 5 years. If they are so right the writers and journos condemning this idea, what would they do? Oh I forgot they can hide behind a pen and paper because it's easy to criticise.

We are twenty years behind Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland etc yes there maybe some ideas within in this you don't agree with. But isn't it better to have a commission who just doesn't sit on the fence and bury there heads in the sand as what the press seem to be doing?

Love England Love Derby

[StaffsRam]

Your own club manager is right behind this idea :-)

 

Thus proving that no one's right all of the time.......well, except the missus obviously.....

[uttoxram75]

I really can't see how this will benefit the England team. The big clubs will just be able to have bigger squads and still not play the youngsters in their first team.

 

Am i missing something?

[AndyinLiverpool]

Another question:

What has Andre Wisdom been doing this season? Bamford? Pissing around u21 football? Abandoned by their clubs?

How many non-English players are there in top flight u21 squads? Man Utd had 4 graduates of their youth team on view the other night. Only 1 was English. The others are Welsh and Belgian.

Playing opportunities are not in short supply. The problem is what state their skills are in by age 18.

What's needed is not more take take take from the premier league, it's give back time. Get their coaches to train local coaches in the most effective ways to help youngsters improve their skills. Make it a condition of their academy licence. Have courses accredited by the FA.

Germany didn't acquire loads of coaches overnight and didn't do so by having B teams in the league.

[bcnram]

I really can't see how this will benefit the England team. The big clubs will just be able to have bigger squads and still not play the youngsters in their first team.

 

Am i missing something?

What you might (or might not be) be missing is that we have a problem in this country where once players get to 18-21 unless they are in the first team, there is not a competitive competition for them to play in. Whereas, in Germany, Spain, Holland etc. their players have the facility to play their development squads against adults in proper stadiums. We do have the loan system where players could play for a lower league team but the club the player belongs to has little or no control over the day to day coaching of the player. It might not be the perfect solution, but at least it is something on the discussion table.

[Brammie Steve]

B teams?

B stupid if you ask me.

Why not have a central league where B players could be called "reserves" and play each other.

The reserves would know that this could be a pathway into the A team, known as the "first team".

Players recovering from injury could turn out for the reserves in this central league as part of their recovery!

That'll never catch on will it?

[ramsbottom]

I hate the national side, the FA and Premier Greed. It's an orgy of cnuts.

From the ages of 5-15 you've got coaches/parents telling kids it's all about winning. "You should have got rid, put in row Z, if in doubt put it out, put it in the mixer, down the line, over the top..."

What? And they aren't technical players at 18? Why, let's introduce another league so Chelsea can play their reserves.

The problem isn't with our 17/18 yr olds. It's too late by then. Add another 5 leagues. Have a Derby County A-Z of teams. Makes no difference.

By the time clubs get hold of most of these lads it's too late.

What everyone really wants is the entire football league to be a training ground for the Premiership. If they send up the best English talent then maybe the national side will improve. If not then atleast the PL will remain elite.

I don't know why and I expect to get slated for this but I won't change... I love seeing PL sides get beat in Europe. I love seeing the national side get the runaround by a country we are too ignorant to acknowledge.

I despise the English football pyramid and mentality. I love DCFC but not by choice.

Well played Sky Sports. Well played.

Hits the nail on the head for me. It doesn't matter if a 17 year old is playing every game of the season for or against Shef Utd or Crewe if he's just some lumbering 6'4 meat head who puts it in the stands he's no good to a prem or the national side. Why do you think Will Hughes stands out like a sore thumb and is so highly rated??? Because he actually likes having possession of the ball where most players treat it like a hot potato. We're never going to compete with Spain, Germany, Italy etc. until we tackle the tiny amount of dedicated skills coaches in the country, at last count 106. The countries mentioned above have 100 times that. We're not going to see any immediate improvement for years. In the shirt term, increase the home grown player quota for a match day squad to 7-8 or limit the amount of EU players a team can have in it's squad... Of course that won't happen because Sky can't market their subscriptions with posters of Harry Kane or James Milner!!!

[bcnram]

Another question:

What has Andre Wisdom been doing this season? Bamford? Pissing around u21 football? Abandoned by their clubs?

How many non-English players are there in top flight u21 squads? Man Utd had 4 graduates of their youth team on view the other night. Only 1 was English. The others are Welsh and Belgian.

Playing opportunities are not in short supply. The problem is what state their skills are in by age 18.

What's needed is not more take take take from the premier league, it's give back time. Get their coaches to train local coaches in the most effective ways to help youngsters improve their skills. Make it a condition of their academy licence. Have courses accredited by the FA.

Germany didn't acquire loads of coaches overnight and didn't do so by having B teams in the league.

Taking your questions one at a time:

Wisdom & Bamford have been playing at Derby County. Both have been getting competitive experience that will help them but are both at the end of the age range that is a concern.

 

Abandoned by their clubs? That is a bit dramatic but they are certainly not under the control of their own clubs.

 

How many non-English players are there in top flight u21 squads? Man Utd had 4 graduates of their youth team on view the other night. Only 1 was English. The others are Welsh and Belgian. That is the problem, it would be better for the national team if there were more England qualified players in the system.

 

Playing opportunities are not in short supply. The problem is what state their skills are in by age 18. Top people within the game say that playing opportunities are in short supply for England qualified players. On your second point, Wenger at Arsenal suggests that there should be less games up to the age of 18 and more coaching. Then they should play competitive football.

 

What's needed is not more take take take from the premier league, it's give back time. Get their coaches to train local coaches in the most effective ways to help youngsters improve their skills. Make it a condition of their academy licence. Have courses accredited by the FA.  This is not a Premier League consultation it is FA driven. I agree that we should have more and better coaches and it has been stated that this is not happening quickly enough. Most (if not all) clubs have players in from a very young age coaching in skills. This seems to be club driven though rather than FA.

 

Germany didn't acquire loads of coaches overnight and didn't do so by having B teams in the league. Correct they didn't acquire loads of coaches by having B teams in the league, that was a separate action. They did see a problem and do something about it though as you will have seen when looking at the report.  ➔ Germany 

After its disastrous Euro 2000 campaign, the DFB set up 366 youth training 

centres 8 to 14-year-olds, served by 1,000 part-time DFB coaches (all UEFA B 

licence holders). Professional clubs in Bundesliga 2 and above were required 

to run youth academies, each independently audited. And B teams were 

allowed into the newly created 3.Liga to enhance the playing opportunities 

for young players. 

[bcnram]

B teams?

B stupid if you ask me.

Why not have a central league where B players could be called "reserves" and play each other.

The reserves would know that this could be a pathway into the A team, known as the "first team".

Players recovering from injury could turn out for the reserves in this central league as part of their recovery!

That'll never catch on will it?

The Central League didn't catch on. Playing against players going through the motions as they come back from injury will not be helpful to anyone. The Central League and the Southern version the Football Combination were most definitely not competitive.

[Mafiabob]

Taking your questions one at a time:

Wisdom & Bamford have been playing at Derby County. Both have been getting competitive experience that will help them but are both at the end of the age range that is a concern.

Abandoned by their clubs? That is a bit dramatic but they are certainly not under the control of their own clubs.

How many non-English players are there in top flight u21 squads? Man Utd had 4 graduates of their youth team on view the other night. Only 1 was English. The others are Welsh and Belgian. That is the problem, it would be better for the national team if there were more England qualified players in the system.

Playing opportunities are not in short supply. The problem is what state their skills are in by age 18. Top people within the game say that playing opportunities are in short supply for England qualified players. On your second point, Wenger at Arsenal suggests that there should be less games up to the age of 18 and more coaching. Then they should play competitive football.

What's needed is not more take take take from the premier league, it's give back time. Get their coaches to train local coaches in the most effective ways to help youngsters improve their skills. Make it a condition of their academy licence. Have courses accredited by the FA. This is not a Premier League consultation it is FA driven. I agree that we should have more and better coaches and it has been stated that this is not happening quickly enough. Most (if not all) clubs have players in from a very young age coaching in skills. This seems to be club driven though rather than FA.

Germany didn't acquire loads of coaches overnight and didn't do so by having B teams in the league. Correct they didn't acquire loads of coaches by having B teams in the league, that was a separate action. They did see a problem and do something about it though as you will have seen when looking at the report. ➔ Germany

After its disastrous Euro 2000 campaign, the DFB set up 366 youth training

centres 8 to 14-year-olds, served by 1,000 part-time DFB coaches (all UEFA B

licence holders). Professional clubs in Bundesliga 2 and above were required

to run youth academies, each independently audited. And B teams were

allowed into the newly created 3.Liga to enhance the playing opportunities

for young players.

Totally agree with all this mate. Problem is some peoples view will never change of the FA.

The FA doesn't cover itself in glory from time to time, but at least they had a commission and come up with some really radical proposals to change the game.

Problem is people don't like change....I e the press.

Also the argument it will put clubs out of business. There's been about 10 or so non league clubs gone out of business in the last 8 or 9 years. Nothing gets mentioned about them.

Just sad that we as a country are frightened of change.

And also so very sad that people are not bothered about England. My dad was 10 when we won the World Cup. He still recalls the moment, where he was where he was watching etc.

Problem is you've all been spoilt by too much football on the screens and watching managers blaming everybody else but themselves.

You've watched press monkeys blame everybody else. Why do you think they've reacted negatively to this announcement? Because if it worked then they wouldn't have a story to run.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion and that's fair enough. But not caring about England makes me, as a fan of the national game, sad.

Feel free to rip me apart.

[AndyinLiverpool]

I think there is something of a misunderstanding here (or is it wilful misrepresentation on the part of Greg Dyke?). I haven't heard anyone advocate doing nothing. Those of us who oppose the introduction of Premier league B teams into the league do not believe that the status quo is fine.

 

We are, however, suspicious of the FA's motives, especially when it uses testimony of Premier league coaches as a basis for suggesting change in an organisation neither the FA nor its ******* child has any say in.

 

It is not a binary state, Mr Dyke. We who reject one of your proposals, do not reject them all. Not a great start to what is supposed to be a consultation process.

[AndyinLiverpool]

I had a look at a couple of Premier reserve team squads. Now, Wikapedia is the source here, so this would need to be checked.

 

Chelsea list 36 players in their reserve squad. 18 at the club and 18 out on loan. Of the 18 at the club, 8 are England qualified; of the 18 out on loan, 5 are England qualified. That leaves 23 out of 36 players who are not England qualified and who would presumably play a significant role in any B team.

 

Liverpool have 31 players listed, 17 of whom are England qualified, though 5 of them are dual nationality. A total of 9 of them are out on loan.

 

Man City have 16 out of 34 English qualified (They have 6 Ghanaians). 12 of their academy squad are non-English.

 

The problem is not playing opportunities for English talent between 18 and 21. The problem is getting them to 18 with enough skill to be able to play at professional level.

 

If Chelsea can have 18 players out on loan, Man city 10 and Liverpool 9, the playing opportunities are there.

[Mafiabob]

I think there is something of a misunderstanding here (or is it wilful misrepresentation on the part of Greg Dyke?). I haven't heard anyone advocate doing nothing. Those of us who oppose the introduction of Premier league B teams into the league do not believe that the status quo is fine.

We are, however, suspicious of the FA's motives, especially when it uses testimony of Premier league coaches as a basis for suggesting change in an organisation neither the FA nor its ******* child has any say in.

It is not a binary state, Mr Dyke. We who reject one of your proposals, do not reject them all. Not a great start to what is supposed to be a consultation process.

Like you say motives, I believe they are going the right way with this.

Another problem is they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.