bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 There you go again. There's no need. We need more and better coaches. Fair enough. But why do they need to be English and how is this to be achieved by allowing B teams into the pyramid? At the moment we have a lot of money swilling round the Premier League & to a degree the Championship. That is the attraction for the players & coaches who supply the majority of the manpower for the Premiership. What if a major Chinese or Indian broadcaster bought Sky and moved the money to German & Spanish football. The foreign 'stars' would not be affordable and what are we left with? Fairly ordinary footballers, sub standard coaching and teams that will disappear from our game. At last, the FA has woken up and 'smelt the coffee' (clearly hasn't drifted to Liverpool yet). The outstanding St. Georges Park has been opened to improve coaching standards, which should improve skill levels. Now they are discussing ways to help the continued education of players through a system where they can stay with their clubs, instead of being shipped out and away from their control. They can play in the same system, with the same coaching methods in proper stadiums against experienced professionals. I understand that you don't care whether our game is absolutely dominated by foreigners or not, personally I think that is incredibly short-sighted to abandon our own kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 All the FA have to do is get rid of the youth/reserve teams! Have it so you're only allowed your 25 man squad + anyone under 18. As soon as you turn 18 you have to sign a professional deal and be within a 25 man squad. Youngsters will then get gametime depending on how good they are and will rise up the leagues as they get better. And the ones who are not quite ready at 18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 At the moment we have a lot of money swilling round the Premier League & to a degree the Championship. That is the attraction for the players & coaches who supply the majority of the manpower for the Premiership. What if a major Chinese or Indian broadcaster bought Sky and moved the money to German & Spanish football. The foreign 'stars' would not be affordable and what are we left with? Fairly ordinary footballers, sub standard coaching and teams that will disappear from our game. At last, the FA has woken up and 'smelt the coffee' (clearly hasn't drifted to Liverpool yet). The outstanding St. Georges Park has been opened to improve coaching standards, which should improve skill levels. Now they are discussing ways to help the continued education of players through a system where they can stay with their clubs, instead of being shipped out and away from their control. They can play in the same system, with the same coaching methods in proper stadiums against experienced professionals. I understand that you don't care whether our game is absolutely dominated by foreigners or not, personally I think that is incredibly short-sighted to abandon our own kids. There's nothing like a bit of condescension to cast a shadow over one's argument. That coaching standards and numbers need improving is not in doubt. We have some of the best coaches in the world within these shores. That there are an awful lot of foreign ones is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. How are the skills of these coaches passed to the local community? That to me is a more important question. That is the responsibility of the FA, the Football League and the professional clubs. Disseminating the skills of the coaches at Liverpool, Man City, Derby County etc to those trying to run junior clubs in their local area is much more worthwhile. Bringing local kids (whether they are English or not) in for a day of coaching with Steve McLaren and his team is one thing but is there a network of communication for local coaches (whether they be English or not). I wonder what local coaches have learnt first hand from Steve McLaren in the last 9 months or so. The FA, far from waking up and smelling the coffee, has spent the last 20 years or so trying to recover the position it surrendered so pathetically with the formation of the Premier League. If ever there was a turkey voting for Christmas, that was it. That was supposed to be good for the national team. The new Wembley was supposed to show what a modern 21st century organisation the FA is. Did it? And exactly when did the FA realise that the ideas of Charles Hughes are anathema to anyone who loves football (excepting those teams who won stuff by hoofing and so keeping their fans quiet). A long time after everyone else. In the time it took the FA to realise, generations had been brought up not touching the ball in training so you were hungrier for it in a match or bypassing midfield to ensure the 3 passes or fewer principle. The FA are not leaders, they are shadows. Anything the FA put forward for the future of the game ought to be treated with the utmost suspicion. Their record demands this. Their motives are almost certainly self-serving or big club serving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 There's nothing like a bit of condescension to cast a shadow over one's argument. That coaching standards and numbers need improving is not in doubt. We have some of the best coaches in the world within these shores. That there are an awful lot of foreign ones is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. How are the skills of these coaches passed to the local community? That to me is a more important question. That is the responsibility of the FA, the Football League and the professional clubs. Disseminating the skills of the coaches at Liverpool, Man City, Derby County etc to those trying to run junior clubs in their local area is much more worthwhile. Bringing local kids (whether they are English or not) in for a day of coaching with Steve McLaren and his team is one thing but is there a network of communication for local coaches (whether they be English or not). I wonder what local coaches have learnt first hand from Steve McLaren in the last 9 months or so. The FA, far from waking up and smelling the coffee, has spent the last 20 years or so trying to recover the position it surrendered so pathetically with the formation of the Premier League. If ever there was a turkey voting for Christmas, that was it. That was supposed to be good for the national team. The new Wembley was supposed to show what a modern 21st century organisation the FA is. Did it? And exactly when did the FA realise that the ideas of Charles Hughes are anathema to anyone who loves football (excepting those teams who won stuff by hoofing and so keeping their fans quiet). A long time after everyone else. In the time it took the FA to realise, generations had been brought up not touching the ball in training so you were hungrier for it in a match or bypassing midfield to ensure the 3 passes or fewer principle. The FA are not leaders, they are shadows. Anything the FA put forward for the future of the game ought to be treated with the utmost suspicion. Their record demands this. Their motives are almost certainly self-serving or big club serving. I agree with much of what you say except I have more faith in Greg Dyke and his commission to at least get a discussion on the right principles of the way forward for football in this country. Charles Hughes was a major curse on our game but the current commission at least includes quality coaches such as Dario Gradi and Glen Hoddle. What you are suggesting should happen via clubs is already starting to happen via SGP with the idea that small team / pitch games etc and better coaching will help the kids. Many clubs already have outstanding contributions to the local community, as an example, Burton Albion have over 20 full-time employees on community projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Maybe its a case of bcnram trusting the FA's motives more than some of us. I am very sceptical and really don't expect the big clubs to allow the FA to do anything other than further their own cause. Its sad, but that's how i feel based on the premier league era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 And the ones who are not quite ready at 18? Then they ain't good enough. They start further down the footballing pyramid and work their way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Then they ain't good enough. They start further down the footballing pyramid and work their way up. Radical, but not doing a lot for improving skills and opportunities for our youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Radical, but not doing a lot for improving skills and opportunities for our youngsters. They'll be playing at their "current" level though. If they are good enough to play in a higher league then they will end up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 They'll be playing at their "current" level though. If they are good enough to play in a higher league then they will end up there. Not too many 18 year olds playing Premier league football though is there? Does your plan mean that they will be thrown out of their clubs to a lower level despite a fairly large investment already having been made in them? Or, as an alternative, they could stay with their clubs, have a 'B' team and they could develop further by playing in a competitive league in proper stadiums against professional players. Maybe that is a bit too radical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Maybe its a case of bcnram trusting the FA's motives more than some of us. I am very sceptical and really don't expect the big clubs to allow the FA to do anything other than further their own cause. Its sad, but that's how i feel based on the premier league era. I am as cynical as any of the old buggers on here, but I do appreciate that they have at least set up this commission to at least look at ideas. This might not be the right idea but it could generate thoughts in other directions. Maybe I am swayed by the standard of people they have on this commission - not the 'old farts' from county level who enjoy a monthly meeting and sherry on expenses, but people who have played and coached at a high level. Interestingly, the Premier League were invited to have a representative on board but declined the offer, offering full cooperation instead. I do understand if some have concerns for the lower league clubs, less understanding for those who just say sod the progress of the national teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Not too many 18 year olds playing Premier league football though is there? Does your plan mean that they will be thrown out of their clubs to a lower level despite a fairly large investment already having been made in them? Or, as an alternative, they could stay with their clubs, have a 'B' team and they could develop further by playing in a competitive league in proper stadiums against professional players. Maybe that is a bit too radical. There isn't I agree. But the Premier League is the top of the ladder! Everyone has to work up it - if you're a mechanic, computer programmer or a footballer, it applies to everyone. If they're good enough at that level they'll be there. It also ensures gametime for the young players in competitive games - rather than just being bought by the big guys and then loaned out here, there and everywhere. Look at players like Jack Rodwell who are simply not getting any gametime..... He'd be much better used in a mid table Prem team rather than getting splinters in his arse sitting on the bench at City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 There isn't I agree. But the Premier League is the top of the ladder! Everyone has to work up it - if you're a mechanic, computer programmer or a footballer, it applies to everyone. If they're good enough at that level they'll be there. It also ensures gametime for the young players in competitive games - rather than just being bought by the big guys and then loaned out here, there and everywhere. Look at players like Jack Rodwell who are simply not getting any gametime..... He'd be much better used in a mid table Prem team rather than getting splinters in his arse sitting on the bench at City. Not sure that the Prem teams would quite see it your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 bcn Unnecessarily condescending attitude apart, you make an understandable point about wanting to see a move to help English kids learn better skills. My point is that if that's the only way to do it the price isn't close to being worth paying. The competition is what gets me to a football match; can my team win an honest, balanced, sporting contest. Making leagues of catchweight contests between League 2 old pro's at Shrewsbury and Premier League wannabes at Chelsea B does not and never will have integrity as a contest. I can't see for one minute why it would achieve the stated goal anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I remember reading somewhere that during your FA coaching courses you're given a list if books to purchase. One of these books is an actual guide to hoofball, I kid you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Want english kids to have better skills? Easy, stop making them play on full size pitches from the age of 11, make premier league use their obscene amounts of cash to fund decent all weather facilities available to all communities, and change kids football to summer, even Messi, Ronaldo et al wouldn't be able to develop skills on the dogturd infested, heavy and wet pitches we expect our kids to play and develop on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Want english kids to have better skills? Easy, stop making them play on full size pitches from the age of 11, make premier league use their obscene amounts of cash to fund decent all weather facilities available to all communities, and change kids football to summer, even Messi, Ronaldo et al wouldn't be able to develop skills on the dogturd infested, heavy and wet pitches we expect our kids to play and develop on. Agreed, also with the huge amount of cash generated by the Premier league, they should get academy lads from premier teams to referee these kids games. Too few referees nowadays, it might also drove up more respect for officials from professional footballers if the up and comers got there whistle out on a parks pitch on a Sunday morning instead of playing on there x box/play stations or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Plus if the young pro didn't make it as a player, he'd already be on the rungs of a possible career as a ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Plus if the young pro didn't make it as a player, he'd already be on the rungs of a possible career as a ref. it's another way definitely. Also on about coaching, not hard for academies to give them there basic coaching badges too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Maybe I'm idealistic, but would love to see a system where local pro clubs took responsibility for the council facilities in their area. Due to cutbacks, councils can no longer do anything but the bare minimum in this area, leasing these pitches to clubs would help with this. Handing over control and maintenance of these pitches to the local club, with the help of FA funding, would help re establish a clubs link to it's community, all players registered in local leagues would in effect be academy players, helping with ffp, and clubs would have more control over the football education of kids. This would surely be cheaper, and more effective in the long term, than a new pro league 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 bcn Unnecessarily condescending attitude apart, you make an understandable point about wanting to see a move to help English kids learn better skills. My point is that if that's the only way to do it the price isn't close to being worth paying. The competition is what gets me to a football match; can my team win an honest, balanced, sporting contest. Making leagues of catchweight contests between League 2 old pro's at Shrewsbury and Premier League wannabes at Chelsea B does not and never will have integrity as a contest. I can't see for one minute why it would achieve the stated goal anyway. On its own it would not reach any goal, but as part of a plan to help the development of players in this country it could have some legs. I can't roll out the arguments for the idea yet again, and to be honest it may be a non starter. The report is out on Thursday I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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