bcnram Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Interview by Steve McClaren on SSN. Seems to be very much for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I am not so sure that you are correct about the national team being more successful in Shilton's day, with the exception of one tournament in this country we have very much been without success, whereas much smaller countries like Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, Portugal have overtaken us in filling the trophy cabinet, and that Mr Needle is what we have to put right. Why do we have to put it 'right'? What's so important about the England team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 This would really over saturate the leagues. It works in Spain because less people support their local teams unlike in England where we have 25,000 + attendances in the 2nd tier league. Very unlikely in many leagues in Europe. Can we please just win the bloody World Cup so none of this utter garbage happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Works in Spain, works for Barcelona, works for the national team. I can fully understand why they want to do it - because they want the best young players to be learning the game in a footballing style that will help players develop. In Germany, virtually everyone from Bundesliga to North Regional X teams play in a counterttacking system. Likewise, in Spain, it's all possession-based football. In italy, it's very technical etc etc. In England, for our young players, it's either hoofball or playing for Man United reserves. Why should Liverpool, who have a great system and identity under Rodgers for fast-paced passing football, send their young players out to teams like Ipswich, Millwall and Bolton for example who only deploy hoofball, survival tactics with the aim of scoring set-pieces. Who does that benefit exactly? Young British players are not benefitting from the English style of percentage football which clearly doesn't work... They need change, and whilst I agree with Ambitious and think it could be cruel to league clubs, it's arguably one of the only options which might improve the standard of young English players. It's OK in Spain where Real Madrid can send their young players to either the Castilla side, or lower league sides such as Deportivo La Caruña, Mallorca and Las Palmas because the footballing education is similar. In England, the style of Arsenal compared to Hudderfield are worlds apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 From a Derby County perspective, I'd certainly want our young players going out on loan and learning the game in the same style and system as what we currently play under McLaren. What good is it to send Mason Bennett out on loan at Oldham where they will dump him on the wing and send long diagonal balls his way at head height? What does he learn from that - zilch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Agree with Bris on the above points but this is england mate. The rich clubs will just hoover up all the talented kids, be able to offset that part of the wage bill against the FFP rules no doubt and so deprive fans like us of ever seeing more than one season of Will Hughes......its bad enough now but all this will do is entrench further the elite's stranglehold on our national game. If it was genuinely done to improve the England team then you could possibly make a case for it but the fact is, the FA and Premier League will only ever allow rule changes that benefit the top clubs. Any other possible outcome would result in the old threats to form a breakaway super league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It works in places where virtually nobody goes to watch football outside the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Why do we have to put it 'right'? What's so important about the England team? We have to put it right because the skill levels with the majority of English players and the technical levels of our coaches are poor compared to other countries. The only way that we can slow down the flow of foreign players / coaches into our leagues is to improve what we produce. The success of failure of the national team is a reflection on what we are producing with players / coaches. Really surprised that I have to explain down to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 We have to put it right because the skill levels with the majority of English players and the technical levels of our coaches are poor compared to other countries. The only way that we can slow down the flow of foreign players / coaches into our leagues is to improve what we produce. The success of failure of the national team is a reflection on what we are producing with players / coaches. Really surprised that I have to explain down to that level. I don't understand why we have to slow down the flow of foreign players and coaches. I don't care about the nationality of a player or a coach. Why do we have to have more English ones? You are working on the assumption that a strong national team is important. I don't believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Agree with Bris on the above points but this is england mate. The rich clubs will just hoover up all the talented kids, be able to offset that part of the wage bill against the FFP rules no doubt and so deprive fans like us of ever seeing more than one season of Will Hughes......its bad enough now but all this will do is entrench further the elite's stranglehold on our national game. If it was genuinely done to improve the England team then you could possibly make a case for it but the fact is, the FA and Premier League will only ever allow rule changes that benefit the top clubs. Any other possible outcome would result in the old threats to form a breakaway super league. I understand that this is different and not the way that things have been done in this country since 1888. The way I see it though is that the Rich clubs seem to be hoovering (other vacuum cleaners are available) up foreign kids because ours are just not good enough. Taking the Will Hughes example, I cannot see how that would be any different to how it is now. He is more than capable of playing in the Championship and possibly above. If we look at Mason Bennett, what would benefit him more, being farmed out to Chesterfield or Rotherham and losing control of his day to day routine, or playing for a Derby B team using the same system / training methods / dietary control etc. in a competitive league? We have been drooling over the abilities of Will Hughes but he should be closer to the norm, not the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't understand why we have to slow down the flow of foreign players and coaches. I don't care about the nationality of a player or a coach. Why do we have to have more English ones? You are working on the assumption that a strong national team is important. I don't believe it is. If you are typical with that viewpoint, there would lie the problem with much of what is wrong with football in this country. Thank goodness you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If you are typical with that viewpoint, there would lie the problem with much of what is wrong with football in this country. Thank goodness you are not. Why don't you answer the question rather than making snide comments? What's so important about the nationality of individual players and coaches? Whether I am typical or not is neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Why don't you answer the question rather than making snide comments? What's so important about the nationality of individual players and coaches? Whether I am typical or not is neither here nor there. It's important because some of the foreign players that get bought are absolute donuts but will get played ahead of better ability English players because they've got a fancy name! It's important because no matter how uninspiring Roy's squad will be in 5 days time it won't stop me hoping that with a bit of luck we can have a successful tournament! Cannot understand this attitude of not caring about England! Fxckin ridiculous considering people moan that players care more about their clubs than their national team, why shouldn't they with views like this from the fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Fxckin ridiculous considering people moan that players care more about their clubs than their national team, why shouldn't they with views like this from the fans? Bit of devil's advocate, but I'd wager the people who complain about players being more concerned about their club than country are those who care about England. Those (like myself) who couldn't give a hairy toss about the national team don't actually mind a player's allegiance being to his club foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Why don't you answer the question rather than making snide comments? What's so important about the nationality of individual players and coaches? Whether I am typical or not is neither here nor there. OK, to put it even more simply. I want to see young English players being educated and developed with skill levels comparable to the best in Spain, Germany, Holland and many, many other countries. I want to see our young being given the opportunity to progress in football, not being dumped because it is easier to bring in foreign youngsters because they already have a lead on what we can produce. I also want to see us with the same level (in ability and numbers) of qualified coaches that those countries have educating our kids from a young age so that every team is bringing through their own Will Hughes. If we can do that, the national team will probably improve as a consequence. Sorry if you thought my comments 'snide', I was just trying to simplify things to a level that you was comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Bit of devil's advocate, but I'd wager the people who complain about players being more concerned about their club than country are those who care about England. Those (like myself) who couldn't give a hairy toss about the national team don't actually mind a player's allegiance being to his club foremost. I tend to agree, I would hate for a Derby player turning out for his country with even a slight niggle of an injury. Having said that, if the England team was competitive and played attractive football maybe more would care a hairy toss about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Bit of devil's advocate, but I'd wager the people who complain about players being more concerned about their club than country are those who care about England. Those (like myself) who couldn't give a hairy toss about the national team don't actually mind a player's allegiance being to his club foremost. I'd agree there are some in your position but there are others who will bemoan England for not playing well and cause players of caring more about their clubs, only to share the same belief. Just a shame we can't all care about both. Nothing better than a summer with a major tournament for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 OK, to put it even more simply. I want to see young English players being educated and developed with skill levels comparable to the best in Spain, Germany, Holland and many, many other countries. I want to see our young being given the opportunity to progress in football, not being dumped because it is easier to bring in foreign youngsters because they already have a lead on what we can produce. I also want to see us with the same level (in ability and numbers) of qualified coaches that those countries have educating our kids from a young age so that every team is bringing through their own Will Hughes. If we can do that, the national team will probably improve as a consequence. Sorry if you thought my comments 'snide', I was just trying to simplify things to a level that you was comfortable with. There you go again. There's no need. We need more and better coaches. Fair enough. But why do they need to be English and how is this to be achieved by allowing B teams into the pyramid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I think a natural, unspecified, amount of time has to elapse to enable young kids in this country to emulate their heroes and then develop. If England won the world cup by headed goals from Andy Carroll then ten/twenty years or so down the line we would have kids developing great heading skills. In this country our national style has been found wanting. It is slowly changing. Just give it more time. When British football was king Spain and the like were more or less laughed at as no hopers. Things change.................go with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 All the FA have to do is get rid of the youth/reserve teams! Have it so you're only allowed your 25 man squad + anyone under 18. As soon as you turn 18 you have to sign a professional deal and be within a 25 man squad. Youngsters will then get gametime depending on how good they are and will rise up the leagues as they get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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