FA to look at introduction of B teams

[bcnram]

I genuinely couldn't give less of a **** what the problem is deemed to be if the solution is to **** our league pyramid over.

It is obvious that you don't care what the problem is, that is your issue.

[needles]

It is obvious that you don't care what the problem is, that is your issue.

 

 

It should be obvious that what i care about is the English game as a whole, and I'm not keen to see it fractured and degraded on a wild goose chase to ostensibly improve the national team, but effectively to optimise income for rich owners play-things.

[bcnram]

It should be obvious that what i care about is the English game as a whole, and I'm not keen to see it fractured and degraded on a wild goose chase to ostensibly improve the national team, but effectively to optimise income for rich owners play-things.

I am pleased to hear it, and appreciate the stance you are taking. My issue is that I have heard nothing in the way of a sensible argument about why it shouldn't happen from anyone. Saying it will be fractured and degraded means nothing - why will it be? I am not taking notice of what Premier League owners / chairman are saying (mainly because I have not heard them say anything), but the coaches and managers are all coming out in favour for the reasons that I have mentioned over and over again. It is difficult to say how competitive the B teams will be against Div 2, 3 and Conference sides but I think in the main they will find it tough, this may well help their development. The facts coming out of our European rivals speak for themselves - we have to change something.

[CumbrianRam]

Also these homegrown players doesn't mean they have to be English, Cesc Fabregas is a homegrown player for example and sometimes English players who were not registered with a club at a young age don't count.

 

Not sure how having sub standard Englishmen in the PL will help the national team, also liked the quote Wenger said a couple of years ago he would prefer a zombie who was a good player to an substandard Englishman. If players are good enough, they tend to breakthrough and most do before 21, look at Southampton and Liverpool, Man Utd etc.

 

They should reduce the cost of coaching badges, which is significantly more than in Germany and Spain and strengthen reforms to stop kids playing on full size pitches too early. Also ball-hoggers should be encouraged, not critised.

 

Also work on deals to allow clubs to invest in 3G pitches which will reduce maintenance costs and ensure kids have a high quality pitch to play on everyday of the year and this can be used as often as clubs want.

 

Do people really think Mr. Russian and Saudi Arabian oil barons care about the national team, do they heck. Hearing Steve Bruce talk about this is funny, does he know where Hull were 10-15 years ago, on the death bed and near the Conference.

 

I'm all for helping the national team, but not if it will ruin the tradition of the English football pyramid, from the very top flight to the Norhern League Division One nine tier below, only in England can every team have the potential to play in the Premier/Football League.

 

The ironic thing as that at most English matches you see mainly flags from lower/non-league clubs and there is less interest from the bigger team supporters which I can fully understand.

[needles]

Saying it will be fractured and degraded means nothing - why will it be? 

 

League 2, Portsmouth vs Accrington Stanley is a proper football fixture with a context of history and of hope for the future.

League 3, Bristol Rovers vs Chelsea B is a nonsense, a ******* child of Rupert Murdoch and Greg Dyke and it offers nothing outside or beyond the 90 minutes its played in. Its the football equivalent of masturbation vs sex.

 

Lose that integrity and you can never get it back. The FA Cup got ****** by man u in 2000 and it's never had the shine on since. This would be thousand times worse. The top of the pyramid can't exist for long without the base.

[cannable]

I am pleased to hear it, and appreciate the stance you are taking. My issue is that I have heard nothing in the way of a sensible argument about why it shouldn't happen from anyone. Saying it will be fractured and degraded means nothing - why will it be? I am not taking notice of what Premier League owners / chairman are saying (mainly because I have not heard them say anything), but the coaches and managers are all coming out in favour for the reasons that I have mentioned over and over again. It is difficult to say how competitive the B teams will be against Div 2, 3 and Conference sides but I think in the main they will find it tough, this may well help their development. The facts coming out of our European rivals speak for themselves - we have to change something.

You keep arguing that the B teams will aid the development of 18-21 year olds; how much development actually occurs between those ages? Most development occurs a fair bit younger than that. The majority of improvements players make during the ages of 18-21 are things such as positioning, strength, how to put yourself about etc. These are improved by good coaching, something English football clearly lacks. Playing in the lower leagues would toughen players up, but would it really development them? When thrown into the first team how many players actually struggle that turn out to be any good? Not many. The reason managers want a B team is because they're too **** scared to throw their youngsters in. They don't want to potentially lose out on points, they're far too results driven, Joey Barton said as much the other week; of all the managers he's played under only a few actually aimed to improve players, the rest focused on winning the next game.

Another thing, yes, Spain does have 2.6x the number of players, probably because of the horrendous financial difficulties 90% of Spanish clubs are suffering at the minute, they're being forced to throw their youngsters in.

In my opinion, we shouldn't even been considering this whole League Three business until infrastructure and a decent standard of coaching are in place.

I still don't think it'll solve the problem in the end. Do you honestly think a kids gonna be given a chance in the Prem because he's had a few years in League One?

[Ambitious]

Does anyone really think Manchester United playing:

 

Johnstone, Keane, Buttner, Blackett, Thorpe, Zaha, Lingard, Petrucci, Lawrence, Keane and Wilson

 

Against Braintree is going to do anyone any favours? 

 

Or will it be so relaxed we may even see the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Rooney play in there a little bit too - The only people that would want this kind of thing is the money men.

 

Man Utd B vs Braintree live on Sky - I imagine that'd get more viewers than most Football League fixtures. 

 

There is so many flaws to this argument and also begs the question, what happens when this doesn't work? 

 

What's the best step. Dissolve all clubs apart from Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal? 

 

Liverpool E vs Chelsea F live on BT Sport 91. Give me strength.

[AndyinLiverpool]

I have been through the report and have not read that anywhere - your imagination is running rife.

I'm not quoting the report. It's a rhetorical device.

[bcnram]

League 2, Portsmouth vs Accrington Stanley is a proper football fixture with a context of history and of hope for the future.

League 3, Bristol Rovers vs Chelsea B is a nonsense, a ******* child of Rupert Murdoch and Greg Dyke and it offers nothing outside or beyond the 90 minutes its played in. Its the football equivalent of masturbation vs sex.

 

Lose that integrity and you can never get it back. The FA Cup got ****** by man u in 2000 and it's never had the shine on since. This would be thousand times worse. The top of the pyramid can't exist for long without the base.

Try and make some points without all the potty mouth soundbite nonsense.

[bcnram]

I'm not quoting the report. It's a rhetorical device.

I know, it is just silly talk that got a silly answer.

[bcnram]

Does anyone really think Manchester United playing:

 

Johnstone, Keane, Buttner, Blackett, Thorpe, Zaha, Lingard, Petrucci, Lawrence, Keane and Wilson

 

Against Braintree is going to do anyone any favours? 

 

Or will it be so relaxed we may even see the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Rooney play in there a little bit too - The only people that would want this kind of thing is the money men.

 

Man Utd B vs Braintree live on Sky - I imagine that'd get more viewers than most Football League fixtures. 

 

There is so many flaws to this argument and also begs the question, what happens when this doesn't work? 

 

What's the best step. Dissolve all clubs apart from Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal? 

 

Liverpool E vs Chelsea F live on BT Sport 91. Give me strength.

Does anyone really think Manchester United playing:

 

Johnstone, Keane, Buttner, Blackett, Thorpe, Zaha, Lingard, Petrucci, Lawrence, Keane and Wilson

 

Against Braintree is going to do anyone any favours?   Yes, it will help both teams if they are in the same league (3 points at stake)

 

Or will it be so relaxed we may even see the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Rooney play in there a little bit too - The only people that would want this kind of thing is the money men. (that is nonsense)

 

Man Utd B vs Braintree live on Sky - I imagine that'd get more viewers than most Football League fixtures. (Why would they put a League 2 or 3 fixture on Sky?) You need to get off your backside and watch those teams.

 

There is so many flaws to this argument and also begs the question, what happens when this doesn't work?  (It is only a discussion at the mo)

 

What's the best step. Dissolve all clubs apart from Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal?  (Now you are letting yourself down with emotional nonsense)

 

Liverpool E vs Chelsea F live on BT Sport 91. Give me strength. (there you go again).

[bcnram]

You keep arguing that the B teams will aid the development of 18-21 year olds; how much development actually occurs between those ages? Most development occurs a fair bit younger than that. The majority of improvements players make during the ages of 18-21 are things such as positioning, strength, how to put yourself about etc. These are improved by good coaching, something English football clearly lacks. Playing in the lower leagues would toughen players up, but would it really development them? When thrown into the first team how many players actually struggle that turn out to be any good? Not many. The reason managers want a B team is because they're too **** scared to throw their youngsters in. They don't want to potentially lose out on points, they're far too results driven, Joey Barton said as much the other week; of all the managers he's played under only a few actually aimed to improve players, the rest focused on winning the next game.

Another thing, yes, Spain does have 2.6x the number of players, probably because of the horrendous financial difficulties 90% of Spanish clubs are suffering at the minute, they're being forced to throw their youngsters in.

In my opinion, we shouldn't even been considering this whole League Three business until infrastructure and a decent standard of coaching are in place.

I still don't think it'll solve the problem in the end. Do you honestly think a kids gonna be given a chance in the Prem because he's had a few years in League One?

It isn't just in Spain, all the countries that include some B teams in the lower (and sometimes new) leagues have overtaken us. By 18 their skill coaching has largely finished. Football isn't just about skill, you have to learn the game and that is what it will bring. That is what the coaches in the game will tell you.

[eddie]

Not worth diddly squat!! Much like your comment.

Don't be an ********.

That's my job, although truth be told, you are far better at it. Must be the years of practice.

[needles]

Try and make some points without all the potty mouth soundbite nonsense.

 

 

Try and make a sensible point, with or without a bit of ******* swearing.

[uttoxram75]

I'd be interested to know bcn if you are involved with the FA in any way. I admire your passionate debate on the matter but having read through the proposals i can't fathom out how they think it will benefit future England teams.

It looks and feels like another vehicle to allow the big clubs to have even bigger squads at the expense of the rest of the pyramid.

 

They have already put in place the means to take young talent cheaply from the rest of the clubs (with the Elite Player plan), and now it looks like a natural progression to have an excuse to sweep them all up under the pretence of helping the national squad.

 

If you manage to convince us otherwise you should be a politician!

[cannable]

They have already put in place the means to take young talent cheaply from the rest of the clubs (with the Elite Player plan), and now it looks like a natural progression to have an excuse to sweep them all up under the pretence of helping the national team.

EPPP's a weird one for me. It's morally wrong and unfair, but it's the only thing that would (and is working). In Germany teams are fined if their academy isn't good enough, would that work in England? Not with the money pumping through the PL it wouldn't, but threaten teams with poor academy's with the possibility of losing the next Rooney for a pittance and, as they are, teams are going to upgrade their academies.

But then again, tell that to the kids at Yeovil, Wycombe and Hereford; those academies shut down as a result of EPPP. EPPP DOES benefit the national team, but like everything the FA does, it's ruined it for the lower leagues.

[McRainy]

Who would support these B teams anyway? If you're a Charsepool plastic you're presumably drawn by the glamour of competing at the top.

Kids up and down the country aren't going to get drawn in to following their rejects around the lower leagues, so we would have meaningless, artificial fixtures which no one wants to watch.

This can only further undermine football as a genuinely competitive sport, which makes a nonsense of the argument that this move is to enable English players to be more competitive.

[bcnram]

I'd be interested to know bcn if you are involved with the FA in any way. I admire your passionate debate on the matter but having read through the proposals i can't fathom out how they think it will benefit future England teams.

It looks and feels like another vehicle to allow the big clubs to have even bigger squads at the expense of the rest of the pyramid.

 

They have already put in place the means to take young talent cheaply from the rest of the clubs (with the Elite Player plan), and now it looks like a natural progression to have an excuse to sweep them all up under the pretence of helping the national squad.

 

If you manage to convince us otherwise you should be a politician!

Naah!! No involvement with the FA, although what I do occasionally puts me together with people in the game. I do understand peoples mistrust of the FA as they have hardly covered themselves in glory as long as I can remember, going back to the delusions of grandeur period of the 50's to the recent era. What I do like though is the make up of this FA commission. I have a lot of time for Greg Dyke. In case others haven't had a look at the commission it is made up of Glenn Hoddle who apart from his obvious credentials ran a 'B' squad in the Spanish league. Roy Hodgson, Greg Clarke Chairman of FOOTBALL LEAGUE, Ritchie Humphries, Chesterfield player and Chair of PFA. Rio Ferdinand, Danny Mills, Dario Gradi Director of Crewe's Director of Football, Howard Wilkinson, Roger Burden (Glos FA) & Danny Mills - plus Steve McClaren. There is a lot of experience and knowledge in that lot. I have also listened to what most of the Premiership managers/head coaches have had to say, and of course our own head coach. All of them recognise the problem that many on here say isn't there, and they have come out with a possible solution that many on here say is just a way of feathering the bed of the Premier Clubs. Who do I believe? I think that is obvious. Incidentally, the chair of the Premier League is not for it and has reservations.

 

This is nothing to do with taking kids into academies (prem or league), it is purely about developing their game once they have left the academy level. Anyone who has played the game at any reasonable level and are 30+ should love playing against the youngsters because they are so naive in the way that they play. We sometimes played youngsters against oldies and we nearly always won, not because we were more skilful, but because we knew the game better; simple things about where to stand, where to run, where to look, how to recognise what a player was going to do, stuff that eventually comes naturally to you. How do you learn that? Not on the training field, you learn it by playing in that environment and supplementing it with good coaching.

 

I have read through the entire report (I found it interesting) and whilst I don't like some of the stuff in there it is never going to satisfy everyone and compromises will have to be made. Unlike most on here I regularly watch League 2 football and have a close affinity to a Conference side so some of what I watch may well be affected by this.

 

I really am not that fussed whether people on here agree with it or not. I just can't help reacting to some of the over-emotional uninformed claptrap from people who clearly have not grasped what the problem is. I will try not to bite back so much in future as it is taking up too much of my time :-)

[bcnram]

Who would support these B teams anyway? If you're a Charsepool plastic you're presumably drawn by the glamour of competing at the top.

Kids up and down the country aren't going to get drawn in to following their rejects around the lower leagues, so we would have meaningless, artificial fixtures which no one wants to watch.

This can only further undermine football as a genuinely competitive sport, which makes a nonsense of the argument that this move is to enable English players to be more competitive.

That is a decent point. I think the majority of Prem B teams would get similar support to the teams in their league, but this would depend on where they play. As an Example, if Aston Villa played their B fixtures at say Tamworth from where they draw a decent amount of support they would probably do OK. If they played at Burton where it is predominately Derby support then maybe not. What it would probably lack is travelling support in any significant numbers.

[Mafiabob]

That is a decent point. I think the majority of Prem B teams would get similar support to the teams in their league, but this would depend on where they play. As an Example, if Aston Villa played their B fixtures at say Tamworth from where they draw a decent amount of support they would probably do OK. If they played at Burton where it is predominately Derby support then maybe not. What it would probably lack is travelling support in any significant numbers.

I would imagine the 1st team at home and 2nd team would be away?