Alty_Ram

Wouldn't surprise me but we are well past a measured and reasonable grievance now. The man seems obsessed with the destruction of DCFC and given that we have now belatedly followed due process with the EFL and taken our punishment then his actions seem extremely vindictive given that there is no realistic prospect of him seeing that money because we are already on the brink of financial oblivion. Not sure where he is expecting another 45 quid to come from never mind 45 million.
It's hard to conclude that it is anything other than a deliberate attempt to to sabotage the potential rescue of the club from liquidation by delaying the conclusion of a potential sale of the club which would almost certainly kill DCFC as surely as actually winning the case. Currently Gibson and Boro seem to be attempting to drive another club out of business and it is one man's personal crusade.
There are several clubs that I can't stand but I'm a football fan and whatever the rivalries and grievances I would seriously hope that DCFC were never the cause of a football club ceasing to exist. Boro better hope that they never need a bit of understanding and slack from other clubs in order to continue to stay afloat.
To be fair, (and as someone else said earlier) apart from the some fanatics it seems that there is a subtle change of the mood music from fans of other clubs now that we have eventually fronted up and taken our penalties as agreed with the EFL and some grudging admiration for the spirit shown at the weekend. That is clearly not enough for some though but we've taken our medicine from the EFL and now we'd like to be able to turn our attention to hopefully ensuring the continued existence of the club that we all love. You'd hope that other football folk would have some empathy for that at least.

Wouldn't surprise me but we are well past a measured and reasonable grievance now. The man seems obsessed with the destruction of DCFC and given that we have now belatedly followed due process with the EFL and taken our punishment then his actions seem extremely vindictive given that there is no realistic prospect of him seeing that money because we are already on the brink of financial oblivion. Not sure where he is expecting another 45 quid to come from never mind 45 million.
It's hard to conclude that it is anything other than a deliberate attempt to to sabotage the potential rescue of the club from liquidation by delaying the conclusion of a potential sale of the club which would almost certainly kill DCFC as surely as actually winning the case. Currently Gibson and Boro seem to be attempting to drive another club out of business and it is one man's personal crusade.
There are several clubs that I can't stand but I'm a football fan and whatever the rivalries and grievances I would seriously hope that DCFC were never the cause of a football club ceasing to exist. Boro better hope that they never need a bit of understanding and slack from other clubs in order to continue to stay afloat.
To be fair, (and as someone else said earlier) apart from the some fanatics it seems that there is a subtle change of the mood music from fans of other clubs now that we have eventually fronted up and taken our penalties as agreed with the EFL and some grudging admiration for the spirit shown at the weekend. That is clearly not enough for some though but we've taken our medicine from the EFL and now we'd like to be able to turn our attention to hopefully ensuring the continued existence of the club that we all love. You'd hope that other football folk would have some empathy for that at least.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

The EFL have been all over us like a rash for the recent financial stuff (understandable to a point given how the club has been run) but totally missing in action so far with the latest revelations of Boro's attempt to sue us which if successful would surely be the death of the club and even if it just stalls a potential sale for a significant would be much the same outcome. Lets be clear, this legal action if successful is an existential threat to the future of DCFC.
We are seemingly guilty of using an amortisation method which while legal was (eventually) not deemed acceptable as it was not what others were doing. We then inevitably failed FFP as presumably it was used to keep within that. Punishment though ? Points deductions and relegation have left us battered and bruised but surely potentially ceasing to exist as a club is spectacularly over the top. There seems to be some confusion and lack of understanding from Boro fans about our reaction to this too - most Derby fans are looking to just grudgingly accept this and move on. We will be relegated and suffer financial consequences that will be with us for years. Job done, well done Boro, you win.
The EFL talk about drawing a line under things with the punishment which, catastrophic as it is (pretty much guaranteed relegation with this points deduction and threadbare squad stripped of remaining assets in Jan..), most fans have taken this on the chin and just want to try and move on from but Gibson and Boro are trying to prevent that from happening. If the EFL do nothing to try to head off/apply pressure against this business of one EFL club suing another then they will have by inaction have directly contributed to the demise of one of their own members. For any gloating fans of other clubs, just put yourself in the place of a fellow football fan. Another club is trying to wipe your club out of existence. How would you feel ? Regardless of the rights and wrongs actions of departed owners, it is always the fans who have to pick up the pieces afterwards with whatever is left of their club in whatever division they find themselves.

Obviously it’s not going to happen, but you could imagine if it did?
One football club putting another out of existence over a hypothetical situation constructed in their own heads. The future would be anarchy with clubs suing others for finishing above them for various reasons.
The EFL should stamp it out immediately and actually grow a pair to tell Gibson no for once. He’s like a child and if you keep telling a child yes, they’ll keep asking for more.
The EFL really need to make moves to get football back to being played on the pitch. More and more these days it’s played in disciplinary hearings or the offices of highly-paid solicitors, and people are falling out of love with it because of that.

This would be a whole can of worms for the entire of the football structure. How can you possibly unravel every historical perceived injustice in a fair manner? Lots of clubs have breached rules and regs and have no impact or consequence, possibly for as little as playing an ineligible player in a single game.
It simply isn't fair to stop at Derby so to do it properly you'd have to put football on hold and go back through every potential case because delaying it just adds more 'injustice' and potential revenue to add to the law suit. If a team broke a rule in any way then every subsequent season every other team in that division will claim that they were there under false pretences and could potentially claim based on lost points lost to that team. What then? Re-draw a table from 10 years ago and relegate and/or fine a club for 10 years increased TV money ?
Not sure whether he thinks he'll actually win this or whether he is just trying to cause irreparable damage to DCFC's chances of surviving it's current woes by introducing more uncertainty in DCFC's future and potential buyer pulls out The outcome is much the same, the end of DCFC. If he somehow succeeds then I hope he and the Boro can sleep at night having forced another club out of existence over a 'what might have been'. If any club successfully makes these sorts of claims stick then it is game over for any club who is guilty. There is literally no point in suing a Championship club for 45 million anyway, they'll just go bust.
It is madness of the highest order but the EFL have tacitly encouraged this. There is just no logical stopping point until you have rounded up every past grievance and sent a significant number of clubs under. Whoever is starting these actions needs to take a long hard look at themselves and at the consequences if it worked.

This would be a whole can of worms for the entire of the football structure. How can you possibly unravel every historical perceived injustice in a fair manner? Lots of clubs have breached rules and regs and have no impact or consequence, possibly for as little as playing an ineligible player in a single game.
It simply isn't fair to stop at Derby so to do it properly you'd have to put football on hold and go back through every potential case because delaying it just adds more 'injustice' and potential revenue to add to the law suit. If a team broke a rule in any way then every subsequent season every other team in that division will claim that they were there under false pretences and could potentially claim based on lost points lost to that team. What then? Re-draw a table from 10 years ago and relegate and/or fine a club for 10 years increased TV money ?
Not sure whether he thinks he'll actually win this or whether he is just trying to cause irreparable damage to DCFC's chances of surviving it's current woes by introducing more uncertainty in DCFC's future and potential buyer pulls out The outcome is much the same, the end of DCFC. If he somehow succeeds then I hope he and the Boro can sleep at night having forced another club out of existence over a 'what might have been'. If any club successfully makes these sorts of claims stick then it is game over for any club who is guilty. There is literally no point in suing a Championship club for 45 million anyway, they'll just go bust.
It is madness of the highest order but the EFL have tacitly encouraged this. There is just no logical stopping point until you have rounded up every past grievance and sent a significant number of clubs under. Whoever is starting these actions needs to take a long hard look at themselves and at the consequences if it worked.

Granted my understand of all things football finance wise is limited, but on a pretty basic level although multiple potential buyers would suit the Administrators, if Kirchner isn't trying to outbid anyone and doesn't have to pay any more than the minimum that he needs to then that might be no bad thing in terms of keeping something in reserve to help the rebuild ?

Granted my understand of all things football finance wise is limited, but on a pretty basic level although multiple potential buyers would suit the Administrators, if Kirchner isn't trying to outbid anyone and doesn't have to pay any more than the minimum that he needs to then that might be no bad thing in terms of keeping something in reserve to help the rebuild ?

Yep, there is a disproportionate amount of wages tied up in 3 players, 2 of which have struggled to deliver much on the pitch and the other who was quality but has spent the majority of time injured. I'm sure we can find options that can give us far better bang for our buck plus perhaps trade in on one or two that we'd rather not lose plus find a cheaper option than CKR. Lord knows Clough had his issues and limitations but he showed that you can assemble a competent team on a tight budget if you know where to look.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56972/speech-once-more-unto-the-breach-dear-friends-once-more

Once more unto the breach dear friends…
If Percy is correct, it looks like the Administrators have made a pragmatic decision to accept the EFL’s vindictive agenda so we can draw a line, come out of Administration and know where we stand. It’s probably for the best. So my top 3 hopes now going forward:
1. WR stays as manager. He’s shown he’s the right calibre to re-launch us. He can now plan for League 1.
2. We’ve got to keep the nucleus of young players together; there are more to come eg Cashin. Blend them now to be a very strong League 1 side. Keep Shinnie if we can. We can hit League 1 “running” & storm back.
3. Get Kirchner in as owner. We need young, bold leadership with popular appeal not figures in the shadows with camel coats and sovereign rings.
Let’s stick together as fans facing up with a united front. Keep our dignity, not lose our heads. It’s darkest before dawn. 
 
What are your top 3 hopes going forward from here?:
 

My main concern is that we have missed several opportunities to pick up points against opponents that we have had a realistic chance of 3 points with. Handing 3 points to the 2nd from bottom team who were on a terrible run was an awful result and we now play a useful Millwall side who are on the verge of playoffs followed by 3 of the current top 5, one of which who just put 7 past a team that beat us last weekend.
It's not easy to be positive about this next sequence of games and nor is it crazy talk to say that there is a good chance that we'll lose them all. We had an intensity and stubbornness about us a few games back that we seem to have lost and those levels of intensity and stubbornness were allowing us to partly bridge the gap in squad quality. Put quite simply, we have to be at our absolute best to get a win with this team and for whatever reason our levels seem to have dipped. It feels as if the initial backs to the wall adrenaline buzz is fading and this paper thin patchwork squad looks to be running on empty. ?

Never has 'There was some football too' felt more relevant !

Never has 'There was some football too' felt more relevant !

I have it on good authority the ‘new hurdle’ is that the EFL have added surviving a snake pit and being able to walk across hot coals to its fit and proper person test. 

I think this is a very valid point. There is so much expectation because he looks absolute quality but we need to be wary of over-relying on his return to fitness and effectiveness. We've watched quality players before who never really recovered. Hopefully he will be back and strolling around bossing things but we need to just be a careful that we are not expecting too much too soon.
He's had such a long time out that only part of the challenge will be getting his body right. He's a lot younger than me but as someone who has had a bad knee injury it does play on your mind and even when I was back up and running I was aware that I was playing it a bit safe with any sports or exercise that I was doing. My physio helped me rebuild the structures around my knee and address some of the mental side but getting past it was a battle in the head as much as it was on the physio table or the gym. I still have a nagging doubt when my left leg is at full extension. 
Clubs employ sports psychologists to work on these things with players with long-term injuries but it is still going to be down to the individual to a degree and how they react and how mentally strong they are. We just don't know what kind of Bielik will return at the moment. Of course, it would be massive for us if he is anywhere close to what we saw in that purple patch so fingers crossed for him.

I think this is a very valid point. There is so much expectation because he looks absolute quality but we need to be wary of over-relying on his return to fitness and effectiveness. We've watched quality players before who never really recovered. Hopefully he will be back and strolling around bossing things but we need to just be a careful that we are not expecting too much too soon.
He's had such a long time out that only part of the challenge will be getting his body right. He's a lot younger than me but as someone who has had a bad knee injury it does play on your mind and even when I was back up and running I was aware that I was playing it a bit safe with any sports or exercise that I was doing. My physio helped me rebuild the structures around my knee and address some of the mental side but getting past it was a battle in the head as much as it was on the physio table or the gym. I still have a nagging doubt when my left leg is at full extension. 
Clubs employ sports psychologists to work on these things with players with long-term injuries but it is still going to be down to the individual to a degree and how they react and how mentally strong they are. We just don't know what kind of Bielik will return at the moment. Of course, it would be massive for us if he is anywhere close to what we saw in that purple patch so fingers crossed for him.

I'd agree with the comments that there are clearly some folk still wary of attendance either for personal health or that of family but I also think there is also an element that some folk have simply got out of the habit of going.

I've certainly experienced periods in the past where we didn't seem to be going anywhere, perhaps the football was dull or whatever and it felt like I was going through the motions a bit in terms of attending but continued to do so because I've been doing so for donkeys years and what else am I going to do on a Saturday right ? With Covid though, the inability to attend games for so long might just have been a tipping point for some people and they may be grateful for the extra few hundred quid in the bank and so some folk may well be slow to come back in their former numbers.

The circus that we seem to have become won't have helped but honestly, I didn't really expect more than low 20k crowds at best. I think our current crowds are fairly respectable in the current situation and although we'll always have a hard core of support (as is the case with all teams), in the current climate IMHO it isn't really of any great surprise that more casual fans aren't turning up in huge numbers.

I'd agree with the comments that there are clearly some folk still wary of attendance either for personal health or that of family but I also think there is also an element that some folk have simply got out of the habit of going.

I've certainly experienced periods in the past where we didn't seem to be going anywhere, perhaps the football was dull or whatever and it felt like I was going through the motions a bit in terms of attending but continued to do so because I've been doing so for donkeys years and what else am I going to do on a Saturday right ? With Covid though, the inability to attend games for so long might just have been a tipping point for some people and they may be grateful for the extra few hundred quid in the bank and so some folk may well be slow to come back in their former numbers.

The circus that we seem to have become won't have helped but honestly, I didn't really expect more than low 20k crowds at best. I think our current crowds are fairly respectable in the current situation and although we'll always have a hard core of support (as is the case with all teams), in the current climate IMHO it isn't really of any great surprise that more casual fans aren't turning up in huge numbers.

Taken as an incident on it's own it was beyond soft even by todays standards! I had a look at the highlights of this not so long back though and what I'd forgotten was that Davison was through on goal just before and was cynically scythed down from behind as he closed in on goal and was livid. He seemed to get up and chuck a chunk of divot at the Rotherham player and stood over him giving him the benefit of his opinion on the challenge. The ref obviously can't give a penalty as it is just outside the box but clearly felt that it was a blatant 'professional' foul and I think the defender got sent off.

As I recall, what happened next was almost like the ref trying to make up for the fact that his hands were tied with the previous challenge and with the resulting free kick (if we didn't score) was looking for anything that he could penalise. The free kick was saved but the ref decided that Jeff Chandler had his shirt pulled (I think he actually mimes this). Let's be honest even the modern day jostling and shirt pulling looks far worse than that but hey, it's one of those epic BBG moments !

Taken as an incident on it's own it was beyond soft even by todays standards! I had a look at the highlights of this not so long back though and what I'd forgotten was that Davison was through on goal just before and was cynically scythed down from behind as he closed in on goal and was livid. He seemed to get up and chuck a chunk of divot at the Rotherham player and stood over him giving him the benefit of his opinion on the challenge. The ref obviously can't give a penalty as it is just outside the box but clearly felt that it was a blatant 'professional' foul and I think the defender got sent off.

As I recall, what happened next was almost like the ref trying to make up for the fact that his hands were tied with the previous challenge and with the resulting free kick (if we didn't score) was looking for anything that he could penalise. The free kick was saved but the ref decided that Jeff Chandler had his shirt pulled (I think he actually mimes this). Let's be honest even the modern day jostling and shirt pulling looks far worse than that but hey, it's one of those epic BBG moments !