Alph

America would never!! 

Why would they want Europe to be in an energy crisis? 

Can't believe the world's leading exporter of LNG could be dragged into this mess. Never would they do something so underhand in a situation so desperate for so many. They're the good guys. This war has been just awful for them too. 

Tbh if it was them they could come out and admit it. People would still join their empire. Sorry, alliance. 

23 hours ago, Augustus said:

Pies must be lovely at Pride Park as that's the only explanation why fans have a whole row to themselves... ?

All these years to get back where you belong. Finally getting full stadiums. 

How's it going? Having fun? 

Russian and American tactics in war has been spoken about. The thread generally has been about the circumstances leading up to and surrounding the war. 

What we're seeing in Ukraine isn't exactly rare scenes in wartime. Nobody here is promoting or justifying war. 

Nobody here even thinks the "Putin apologists" like to see mass graves do they? 

Russia's disregard for human life in war is frightening. It was so during WWII. 

Are we suggesting there's an argument being made here for the way Russia has taken the war to Ukraine? 

There's a long way between saying maybe Russia has a right to be concerned about x because of y and then saying that all Ukraine needed a jolly good Russian rampage.

1 hour ago, Ramarena said:

I’m fairly ambivalent on Azov. Ultimately it doesn’t matter what you, I or someone on Twitter says.

Ukrainian’s will decide who their hero’s are/aren’t, and rightly so.

Can't argue with that ?

Joyce looked like a heavyweight Golovkin tonight. He showed new levels. 

The most fitting nickname for any boxer. Not sure what he's made from

I don't think I've ever tried to excuse Putin of what he's done. Just some of his concerns are well founded. His reaction is not.

But I think reading what you gents have said about the Azov Battalion it's clear we will never agree.

Putin can't be forgiven for the scale of this. For the massacres and executions. But still, that doesn't mean his concerns about the likes of Azov should be dismissed as an excuse. They're not heroes. 

Only in war does the line seem blurry as they look to have bolstered their ranks with anyone willing to defend Ukraine. That doesn't excuse what they are and what they've done. They certainly weren't considered heroes by America and Europe pre invasion!

I don't really want to sound like I'm defending Putin by going on about this Neo Nazi group with their Wolfsangel insignia and their activities. It's not hard to dig up what they're about and make up your own mind. If you think they're the good guys then so be it. Imo they belong in the same place Putin belongs. 

I managed to look on twitter and I assume we're talking about the general state of prisoners Russia have released? Malnourished? Looks pretty bad.

I did see much of these "brave defenders of Mariupol". The brave Azov warriors. These defenders of Ukraine should be given medals. "Heroes" they say. I saw a few posting the emblem of the Azov Regiment. The Wolfsangel. Typically adopted and adapted by right wing Ukrainian neo Nazis that terrorise, torture, rape and execute Pro Russian supporters in East Ukraine. 

This is a group that the US was going to, and later rejected to train. A group that many considered a terrorist organisation. 

Twitter however has to follow the script. And so they're brave defenders of Ukraine. With a nazi flag. 

That's Twitter. 

22 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Duck me, it’s behind his back ??????

It's his arm that he's showing in front of him was severed during the siege?

I'm not sure of the point your making? I'm not being a knob I genuinely don't know what I'm looking at? It's a returned PoW from the Azov Battalion. I've not got Twitter so I get about 30 seconds to view your link before I'm asked to sign in. 

And I'd rather be in a Russian PoW camp chained up to Liz Truss before I sign up to that steaming hot dog ?

10 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Duck me, it’s behind his back ??????

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

This isn't so much as "from the horse's mouth" as "from the horse's former groom's mouth".

https://youtu.be/gtUb-IGbuSw

I'm not here to defend Putin, I'm well aware he's extremely dangerous, determined and will lie (as he did about the reasons for Russian forces gathering on Ukraine's border) and will go to extremes to gain victory. 

You implied his mission was to slaughter innocents and if anyone tried to stop him he'll nuke them. 

What he wants is real enough. We don't need a Bond villain and I don't think it helps to think of it that way. 

If he is intent on the slaughter of innocents and destroying Ukraine then there can be no hope for peace and there's no solution. So start prepping now!

25 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

 

leave this with you ??

 

He was photographed with an arm missing before being captured. Are we suggesting this man, a member of the Azov Battalion?, had his arm chopped off while being a prisoner? 

16 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I know most won't care or are not interested, but companies like PayPal and all the other tech businesses are partly owned and controlled by a very small number of very rich people. While we waste our time falling out amongst ourselves, the real enemy controls both sides of the political divide to keep us at each others throats.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/04/bill-sardi/who-runs-the-world-blackrock-and-vanguard/

 

Well that's utterly depressing to read!

I think things are bad enough that we don't need to quote Putin with things he never said. The situation is dire

Liz Truss has said very similar. But nobody quotes that as "I will level Moscow and kill millions of Russian people" 

Well, maybe they do in Russia. 

2 or 3 times now she's muttered nuclear. That's on top of encouraging British civilians to go and fight. 

I wish that made more headlines and then maybe we'd not have voted for her to... Oh yeah. 

4 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

Obviously I've caught a few bits here and there where it couldn't be avoided, but I haven't intentionally paid attention to any of it tbh. I'm not really a 'joiner-inner' anyway, any hint of 'expected' active participation and I get uncomfortable, just let other people get on with doing their thing and hope nobody tries to force me into action.

I'm not sure I even think of it as a significant world event tbh. It doesn't really change anything about the way most people go about their lives. It's just replacing one head of state who doesn't actually influence much of anything meaningful these days for another. The new one might not be present the same 'cuddly' image but well, oh well.

Clearly though it's important to a lot of people, many do care about it, but as far as I can see its actual significance is really quite confined to those who already feel it's more significant that it is. A self-perpetuation of perceived importance that ultimately amounts to a different face on a few coins & banknotes, changing some song lyrics and watermarks on product packaging and everyone proceeding to live their lives exactly as they had been doing before.

That's how I feel about it all anyway. Not saying I'm right.

It's important to history.

I think the death of a King or Queen is something to be marked by British people. It's the story of our history. The story of our past. And also many of the commonwealth nations may feel the same. 

I don't think I'd say the whole world has to be flipped on its head for an event to be of significant interest. 

It's an event that has rippled across the world. It's gained huge attention. It brings the end of an era. It turns a new page in the history books and there's a new chapter. 

I don't expect everyone to cry over it. I don't expect everyone who doesn't care to shout from the roof tops that they don't care (they obviously care), I don't expect it to cure cancer. 

And what will surprise some people is that you can care about this AND other things too. Or you can care about nothing. 

I don't think there's been an outcry of "why don't you care!!?". I've seen more of people asking "why should I care". Well, don't. That's fine. 

I just thought it was a shame we can't all be brought together in one of the few events that brings about an excuse to celebrate our land, our people, our heritage, our history. 

Just as it's a shame, to me, that my Mrs gets bored in Slovenian museums and vanishes off leaving me to look for her! I just love history and think it plays an important role in giving us all identity. A belonging. Which is something we all seek. 

Plenty of people have died that are of significant interest to millions and millions. Life will go on. But I don't feel the need to jump in and say I don't care. Or call it irrelevant. If that person has impacted millions of lives in any way I say that's significant. Worthy of a page in history. 

I think it's a shame that France no longer has a monarchy. French Kings, Emperor's even, it all links modern France to it's deep history. Its influence on the world. It's fascinating characters. It's the foundations of modern day France and I think it would be nice to see that still living today. 

You're right, the Queen was a face on a stamp etc. But that's the breadcrumbs for future generations. Her death is a significant day in history. 

Just now, AndyinLiverpool said:

Are you ok?

It sounds like you are the one who needs to relax. I'm in a transcendent state of serenity.

Sorry I can't respond because this conversation wouldn't be as important as a flood (Pakistan) war (Ukraine) or earthquake (Mexico) and therefore is insignificant. Like a funeral. 

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Some don't consider it a 'significant' event. It's a funeral, not a flood (Pakistan), war (Ukraine) or earthquake (Mexico).

Relax man, jeez. 

How have people managed to make out I've had a dig at them. 

It is a significant event. It's a shame some people don't consider it so. I've not got a problem with them for it ffs. 

I also think it's a shame I'm not a millionaire, that people don't enjoy things like that. Or that not everyone gives a toss Palestine (war), famine (Afghanistan) etc etc. 

Keep you knickers on. No wonder there's no politics thread. Got your boxing gloves on and I only meant I like to see people brought together. 

3 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I think it's a shame that people think it's a shame that people didn't watch, Never watched a second of it, I stood up for the minutes silence at PP...job done ?

I'm not digging anyone out. I mean I think it's a shame that people don't enjoy historical grand events and watching British pomp in full flow. 

I think you've taken it as a dig that I think people who didn't watch are disrespectful or something. 

I mean i think this event can fill you with patriotic pride and thrill the historians and for some people it doesn't. Their interests lie elsewhere. Nothing wrong with it. Just a shame it doesn't bring everyone together. 

I'd say the same about The Olympics or world cups where some people don't give a toss. They're missing out. It's not shame on them. 

?‍♂️

Think it's a shame that some didn't watch this historic event in the UK. 

I think, even if I wasn't pro Royal family, that I'd still watch some. I can't imagine not being interested in significant world events. 

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

The Beeb have a stunning collection of photos from the day. Well worth a look, even if you're not a Royal fan, for the sheer artistry.

I bet the Winston Churchill looking on is there. That was a great shot yesterday. 

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nearly set me off when the bagpipes skirled and started up with 'Over the Sea to Skye'...

Yes, the bagpipes have brought a tear here. 

On 16/09/2022 at 23:44, CBX1985 said:

He was very careful to not publicise that fact....

Except to BBC, ITV, Channel Four, and Sky.  Oh, and the assortment of print media.

He quietly without any attention or fuss queued with everyone else.

Sounds like he can't win either way

Everything has been perfect though. 

Has Canelo had 61 fights?!!

Jeez, respect that activity.

21 hours ago, Henrycav81 said:

I had GGG comfortably winning the first fight thought he just edged the second but you could make a case either way

think canelo will win the 3rd just because age seems to have caught up with GGG he was poor in his last fight also if the judges are like the previous fights GGG will need to knock canelo out to get a draw

I had Canelo on the 2nd but it seems only ringside judges in the entire world had Canelo in fight 1. 

I feel like this fight will be sad to watch. It will be GGG trying and failing to pressure Canelo and just getting beat up.

1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

 

And what is this nonsense about a white war?

 

I know your perspective on it because you went on to say that it's because it's close to home that we should be/are more concerned than any other war. 

But the other perspective is that there a places and people in the world that we are ok with seeing war. We're ok with them dying. We're ok with border doubling, tripling, quadrupling and more if it's a part of the world where that sort of thing just happens. We're ok with widespread famine and displacement of millions of people if it's over there where they're always fighting. Cus that's what they do, there. 

But Ukraine are white people. European people. Civilised people. Our people. 

Now I'm obviously not suggesting you're one of these people. This isn't a personal attack mate. 

Why is it so unimaginable to have war in Europe. We're civilised people! We're the peak of humanity. You don't get extremists here. We're not like those barbarians in the Middle East. It's not acceptable for Europeans to die. It's certainly not acceptable for Americans to die in America. What happened in Iraq? What happened in Palestine? Gaza you say? Afghanistan? Well that's just what they do there isn't it? Barbarians! Uncivilised barbarians who should live like us. 

I just feel, and it's fine if you disagree, that we're desensitized when it comes to America's enemies dying. But when it's an ally then insert sad music and show the human cost. 

It's not white war as in everyone is racist. It's about how conflicts are presented to you and how you're trained to feel about that. Because they don't want you talking about the Azov Battalion. They don't want you to ask why Israel has swallowed up land. They don't want you asking why we step in to help these people but not those people. 

Or worse still, why do we help them people kill those people if we're the good guys? Isn't that a contradiction to what we're saying over here?