RammingStone66

12 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

CK only one with evidence of enough funds apparently. Other two need to join together to raise enough from their combined backers.

Yeah I personally don't like the idea of them having to team up. You didn't want to originally, potentially 2 competing visions and a bunch of people who want to be in charge. And if you haven't got the money to bail us out now, what happens if another catastrophe strikes ? 

27 minutes ago, GenBr said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/chris-kirchner-Derby-county-takeover-6120271.amp

Simon Jordan thinks kirchners business is worth 7 billion, but i dont think thats correct anyway. Even if it was it doesnt mean CK has that money sat in the bank

Yeah that's because of the money Goldman Sachs but in (60mil) according to Jordan that's valueing his business at 7 billion. But he obviously isn't actually worth that yet and dies not have the liquid cash or wouldn't need 60mil to expand his companies payroll. The hype around him seems to be that he could be the Elon/Jobs of logistics and in the near future his company could be worth a huge amount

3 minutes ago, BriggRam said:

Not sure where you've heard or seen that B4....I'm sure he has come and said himself he's not a billionaire

Yeah he isn't a billionaire, I think that comes from the fact Goldman Sachs gave his company 60mil in investment and are projecting the companies future value at over a billion. So he very well could become a billionaire in the next few years, it could also fail too lol

10 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said:

Why are they referring to him as a billionaire on the radio? Where’s the evidence he’s got that kind of cash? 

Yeah Kirchner doesn't seem like a billionaire. Lots of stories about them getting 60mil in funding to expand the company. 

19 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

I wish other clubs would look at our spend as they think we have been tanking it for years which is not true. I think our debt is probably no bigger than others in the Championship and significantly smaller than some (Reading, Stoke etc). They are angry that we sold the stadium for more than a lot of them did and don't understand the amortisation thinking we had been residual values at the end which is not true it was always 0. they think that our overspend/debt is bigger than every ones which is not true.  

Mel gambled and in football terms is not a rich man, I think that in the end he could see his fortune dwindling away. Of course a lot of that would not be accessible.

A lot of misinformation out there.  It is taking the focus from others that should have larger FFP problems. For instance Stoke's Covid write off is ridicules and  haven't Fulham deferred the payment on Wilson so they don't pay anything this year.    

 

I think the Wilson payments are delayed for 2 years. If you don't want clubs running up debts then allowing them to defer payment on players for a few years seems like a silly idea because someone will exploit it eventually

11 hours ago, KBB said:

Whoever takes the club over had better be prepared for demands to splash the cash on new signings in January.

Don't think that will happen? As utterly mindless as it sounds from the journey we took to admin there will always be an element who will expect, almost demand, significant signings every transfer window.

Mike Ashley or whoever will really have to send a clear message to an element of our support. The days of chucking money are long long gone. Think we will see the Butterfield and johnson double deal days again? Not a chance in hell.

Even with new owners the Transfer embargo is for 2 years so we can't splash any cash for quite a while and I assume the embargo would also restrict the amount of wages we can pay for a while too. Can't imagine the EFL would be happy with us trying to give a big name free agent like Jack Wilshire or someone 35k a week or something silly, all of a sudden  

Maybe an owner comes in pays off every creditor in one go and the EFL drop the embargo and be kind to us.........then Gibson tries to sue us for another imagined slight ?

12 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Initially when the 'intention to file for administration' was announced...there was some complicated chat/forlorn hope that it all seemed weird, there was some financial angle, Mel was a lifelong fan and was grandstanding to throw the EFL off the scent whilst he pulled a rabbit out of the hat. 

Is there any hope left he isn't just right royally shafting us and leaving the club neck-high in the you-know-what?

12 points deducted. Seemingly admitting there's more to come because of the accounts, huge debts piled up owed to every man and his dog, a threadbare squad with precious room to manoeuvre, we don't own the ground, so many points to be deducted they could be held back and passed over to next season and relegate us again orrr we could just be in such a mess financially we go totally out of business. 

Yet he said hopefully now he has gone he sees the chance for things to turn for the better...

What am I missing??

That I read quite a few people on Facebook etc saying "don't worry Mel has probably left enough cash in the club to get us to Christmas.....he is a fan" ??

I'm amazed after all that's happened that anyone could still live in hope of any positive action from Mel now.

My god he won't say sorry

Definitely havnt heard an apology yet ? 

4 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Indeed. He stated that the club would break even in normal times and with the above debts remaining unpaid, there’s a good chunk of money going out of club on a monthly basis. 

Im not that up to date with the financial wranglings, however the questions I have from what I remember recently are:

- Did Gabbay lend us money to buy the stadium as was speculated upon?

- What is the status of the loans from MSD, on initially the ground and then a further loan against Moor Farm?

Could there be much more than we know behind the scenes with the above?

Can't read the whole article as I'm not a subscriber but it seems the athletic thought Mel borrowed 81mil from Gabay to buy the stadium. The article was posted in July 2020.

38 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Back in 2018 - 19 Frank Lampard was saying in det that Mel Morris had put in 150m but that books would have to be balanced from that point. 

Was that all nonsense? 

I sort of thought maybe it was only once income collapsed in covid that Mel started borrowing to finance the club but was it in fact earlier.... Perhaps from 2019?

 

Didnt Mel borrow 80mil off Henry Gabay in 2018?

44 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

That is exactly what I'd heard but Cocu Alonso circus/deal was never going to happen so any shrewd business brain would be looking to offer no more than £1 if the debts are all to be settled, substantial (allegedly) and there is no real assets such as stadium and training ground

I'm glad someone remembers that two. I haven mentioned it to a few people and I was starting to think I had imagined it ? yeah with how high the debts were reported to be at that time I couldn't get my head round the 2x2.5 mill payments. I think it was supposed to be 40mill in debts to take on and that's why the EFL wanted 20 mill paying off straight away.......which also made me think they didn't trust Alonso at all. 

34 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

What deal?

Is there one?

No, at the time that the Alonso deal was going through and we were supposedly waiting on confirmation from the EFL. I was explaining what I remembered of the reporting of that deal

6 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

The more this is going the more i think it is one of 2 options. There are 2 valuable assets, The stadium and the training ground. One of which we know is not owned by the club. The club itself is ridled with debt, losing more money every day, shrinking fan base, on field issues/embargo etc. So worth about £1 + large debts to a potential buyer, thats option 1 and option 2 is administration. Really hope i am wrong and there are other ways, but as long as the club is managed the way it is I am struggling to see it going differently

 

I thought it was reported that the Alonso deal was: Take on the club's debt, a payment of 2.5mil to Mel upfront then another 2.5mill in 6 months. EFL wanted him to pay 20mill of the debt off upfront but he wouldn't tell them where the money to pay it was from and kept stalling on actually paying it.

If that was true I wonder what the deal is now

Anyone get the feeling that the 'americans' or who ever was waiting to see what our EFL punishment was going to be are actually waiting to see if Mel puts us into admin and then buy the club.

Iv never understood why a business person would want to buy us with so much debt on the books when the ability to get rid of it and buy us for a hell of a lot less exists. I know it would guarantee is league 1 football but you would back the fact of not having to spend 40+ million to get back to the championship (I know it's a gamble but it's seems a reasonable one on the surface.....though you could of said that about getting to the prem I guess lol)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it or my understanding of administration is flawed but with Mel showing no signs of wanting to fund us all year or a takeover being remotely close it feels like admin creeps ever closer. 

sadly It does feel to me like there will be no movement today. Hope I'm wrong but It's so quiet on all fronts that I'd be amazed if this stalemate between us and EFL is resolved fast enough to sign anyone. Also anyone we have our eye on is probably thinking the same and I can't imagine them waiting on a offer from Derby that may never come.....unless they have no other offers at all of course.

I thought I read that the alonso deal was 2 payments of 2.5mill to Mel and he had to pay a bunch of the debt upfront by order of the EFL???

Just hoping a takeover happens so we can tie some of this youth down to long term deals. Worries me they will get picked off for hardly any money because we can only offer one year deals under embargo. 

Well that was much more exciting than I expected lol.

Feels to me like a big moment for the young players, a great learning and development experience and probably a big bonding one for the whole squad. Hopefully gives them confidence knowing they can fight through and compete.

16 minutes ago, Miggins said:

Mel has been wanting to sell for the club for the last 2 years Right now there are more than 2 buyers with good credentials at the table. Mel said he had been looking forward to the meeting and for some reason hasn't been able to put his side of the story but has had to endure the abuse. He said it was a relief to be able share with the people present. He asked everyone to get behind the club as protests etc at this time might be off putting for potential buyers if they saw the fans turn against the owner. NDA was one of the first questions but by the end of the meeting Jim understood the reasons for it.  Wayne was not discussed as the manager was not within the remit of the meeting. Hope this helps. Jim talked for about 10 minutes and gave a very thoughtful view of what had been said which I know @David will do later.

 

I think he might be a little optimistic if he thinks fans aren't going to turn on him. Some will feel offended they aren't privy to this information and being told to keep the faith after everything that's happened isn't exactly reassuring to most. If we start losing games people will get angry and even if it's just a small vocal minority, they will make themselves heard. I think some fans will see this whole meeting as a fiasco again and I'd be surprised if we see the harmony Mel is seemingly hoping for.

Even more drama and interesting times ahead most probably ?

14 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

How we know it’s not the free agents wanting more than the efl salary cap or more than a year which is up to them. Derby know the rules of an embargo and that’s why they likely asked for more leeway which the efl said no. Instead why doesn’t Mel and Pearce just get the accounts in and pay hmrc. If we fail ffp at least we will have more time to prepare and will be out of an embargo. At this rate they will getting the books in by the 18th and by the time they are looked at we will be right at the end of the window and scraping for signings 

 

Totally agree on the accounts. What game are we playing by not submitting them yet. The total silence on all fronts I find slightly worrying.

7 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I think in theory they're only accountable to the league members. 

There's no primary legislation for football in the UK which provides any legal basis for the organisations like the fa, Premier league, efl etc etc... 

Could you not take it to a body like CAS. Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Not sure how that all works but they seem to be where many go if you believe the sports regulator to be wrong

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

Some on here are making mountains out of mole hills.

Get a grip ffs, so what if he's been with (allegedly) 2 young women and had a few Jars. It's his life and he's not obliged to be focused on dcfc 24hrs a day 7 days a week. 

NOBODY works 24hrs a day 7 days a week, NOBODY!.

IF, this is a recent occurrence then MORALLY it's wrong imo as I would never cheat on my wife, but i'm not Wayne Rooney, so i'm not jumping on a soap box and using this as another way to bash him like some seem to be doing just because they already have a dislike for the man.

 

I couldn't care less about Rooney's morals and who he cavorts with at a weekend. That's between him and his wife.

I'd just say that dealing with an alleged possible drinking problem, the hateful media and what I imagine to be a rather angry Colleen Rooney, could be quite difficult while being a high profile manager at a club in an already horribly difficult situation. Not to mention does it undermine his authority with the players and staff, does this annoy the EFL even more ?. I read he contacted the police over this, so will he get into a legal battle, another possible distraction.

His morals are his own and I don't need to judge him, all I care about is he does what's best for the club. if those pictures are from Saturday night I don't know how he justifys inviting young, possibly clout hungry Instagram models to party with him, in a city where he is rather famous......and he thought nothing would get out ??

2 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

I was under the impression we could sign free agents for up to a year, and loans for 6 months

I think that depends on that "player of professional standing" clause. I read we are talking to the EFL about it 

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

It’s delusional to think the current squad is enough to operate with. We are 2 weeks away from our 1st friendly, a time when you should be preparing your squad for the up and coming season, getting them fit, developing your tactics and planning your systems.
In 4 weeks we start the season and have 5 leagues games between then  and the window shutting. That’s 15 points to play for, the current squad has no CB’s and one CF, it’s absolutely delusional to think that’s good enough to operate in the championship. 
I’m not panicking, I’m sad at what has become of our club in the hands of the current ownership team. 

Got to agree, and from the way Pearce put it, it sounded to me like potentially no or very limited incomings until a takeover is completed. His line about "talented youngsters" sounded like signposting the fact many of them are going to have to play this year especially if no takeover is completed and they are hoping to god that they all step up.  I hope I'm totally wrong and they have multiple talented free agent players lined up ready to go and even with out a take over many of them will be signed, I just don't see it.