Asanovic70

The thing is that the PL was not set up for middle-ranking clubs, it was set up for the then big 5, the elite, or clubs now bankrolled by states (Man City, now Newcastle). It asks the middle-ranking clubs to mortgage themselves. It's like that scene from Alice Through The Looking Glass where Alice runs just to stand still. 
PL clubs don't go out of business, they end up getting relegated instead due to financial problems, like Portsmouth, so that they then  cascade down the divisions. Parachute payments were brought in to cushion the blow that saw the likes of Swindon, Bradford cascade down the divisions. You could argue Sheff W never really recovered from Carbone etc, and like us, Chansiri spent big but ultimately failed. Sunderland another example. Millions spent to finish mid-table/bottom half.
Twice the PL has caused Derby severe damage, (a) 2002, Pickering relinquishing control, the ABC loan etc, £54m (b) 2008, the 11pt season, part of the PL revenue (£30m) going on servicing that historic debt. Indirectly, it led to a third (c) Mel Morris' ill-fated tenure, chasing the PL dream.
Forest are almost doing what we did in microcosm. Yes, it's exciting, we were all carried away by the money Morris spent. But one thing already noticeable at Nottingham Forest is how few Academy players will be able to come through. It was the likes of Worrall & Yates upon which they gained promotion (character).  
This is a club, that like ours, does not learn. They wasted money under Platt, early noughties, before a very good side came close to promotion (Paul Hart), vis us & Clough's platform/McClaren, the Doughty family waiving £75m debt, the comedy that was al-Hasawi. We paid Lawrence nearly £40k a week, now they're paying someone 3x that salary in a season.
It is just my personal opinion that's it's unsustainable because Nott'm Forest occupy a similar place in the food chain as us & some of the other clubs mentioned. They only need a handful of these signings to disappoint, and it will hamper/impact their future activity (vis Swansea). Eventually, Brentford will go down, not through any great fault of their own but because the PL asks sides at that level to keep re-inventing the wheel & eventually they get caught. The same happened to us. Christian Dailly sold for a sizeable fee, replaced by Prior but eventually we bought Bragstad.
The elite can absorb these losses, but an Ozil can still hamper an Arsenal, the wages a distraction (impact in dressing-room) as well as a major outgoing for the club.
I often think the anticipation, the journey appears more fun than arrival & possibly the memory of that surprise promotion after an abject start will live more in Forest fans' memory than the PL itself as does winning at Wembley in 2007 does for us.  I'd love us to have a side with a few home-grown players (Carsley), some with real stature (Stimac) & the enigmatic (Wanchope) giving it a right good go, a side that didn't need tons of money thrown at it. Otherwise I don't really see the appeal. It has damaged us twice & a third time indirectly.
 
 

The thing is that the PL was not set up for middle-ranking clubs, it was set up for the then big 5, the elite, or clubs now bankrolled by states (Man City, now Newcastle). It asks the middle-ranking clubs to mortgage themselves. It's like that scene from Alice Through The Looking Glass where Alice runs just to stand still. 
PL clubs don't go out of business, they end up getting relegated instead due to financial problems, like Portsmouth, so that they then  cascade down the divisions. Parachute payments were brought in to cushion the blow that saw the likes of Swindon, Bradford cascade down the divisions. You could argue Sheff W never really recovered from Carbone etc, and like us, Chansiri spent big but ultimately failed. Sunderland another example. Millions spent to finish mid-table/bottom half.
Twice the PL has caused Derby severe damage, (a) 2002, Pickering relinquishing control, the ABC loan etc, £54m (b) 2008, the 11pt season, part of the PL revenue (£30m) going on servicing that historic debt. Indirectly, it led to a third (c) Mel Morris' ill-fated tenure, chasing the PL dream.
Forest are almost doing what we did in microcosm. Yes, it's exciting, we were all carried away by the money Morris spent. But one thing already noticeable at Nottingham Forest is how few Academy players will be able to come through. It was the likes of Worrall & Yates upon which they gained promotion (character).  
This is a club, that like ours, does not learn. They wasted money under Platt, early noughties, before a very good side came close to promotion (Paul Hart), vis us & Clough's platform/McClaren, the Doughty family waiving £75m debt, the comedy that was al-Hasawi. We paid Lawrence nearly £40k a week, now they're paying someone 3x that salary in a season.
It is just my personal opinion that's it's unsustainable because Nott'm Forest occupy a similar place in the food chain as us & some of the other clubs mentioned. They only need a handful of these signings to disappoint, and it will hamper/impact their future activity (vis Swansea). Eventually, Brentford will go down, not through any great fault of their own but because the PL asks sides at that level to keep re-inventing the wheel & eventually they get caught. The same happened to us. Christian Dailly sold for a sizeable fee, replaced by Prior but eventually we bought Bragstad.
The elite can absorb these losses, but an Ozil can still hamper an Arsenal, the wages a distraction (impact in dressing-room) as well as a major outgoing for the club.
I often think the anticipation, the journey appears more fun than arrival & possibly the memory of that surprise promotion after an abject start will live more in Forest fans' memory than the PL itself as does winning at Wembley in 2007 does for us.  I'd love us to have a side with a few home-grown players (Carsley), some with real stature (Stimac) & the enigmatic (Wanchope) giving it a right good go, a side that didn't need tons of money thrown at it. Otherwise I don't really see the appeal. It has damaged us twice & a third time indirectly.
 
 

I’ve completely fallen out of love with the idea of the premier league. It seems completely pointless. It was exciting being among the top 6 in the championship, winning more than we lose, and the occasional trip to Wembley. 
but then if you don’t aim for promotion, what’s the point? It’s a horrible catch 22, you’re obliged to try to get promoted. And it would be nice to go to Wembley and actually win for once. But as soon as we did, we’d just be preparing to get battered again in the premier league.
or maybe I just have ptsd from the last time we were there. 

No, one made a mess of running a football club, the other is a drug trafficker and blows up bakeries

I stuck £100 on those turds down the road for relegation, Betting slip on this thread, They signed 2 really decent keepers, A couple from Huddersfield, Someone from Germany and a bunch of players I've not heard of, The cabbage patch doll of a manager will have to be a miracle worker of biblical proportions to keep this bunch up, Then he signs a plank who can't speak the Queens English on a reputed £200k a week for 1 year, It's not like he's going to play in a team that's tried and tested, Has a good squad with a proven defence, Midfield and attack...like erm...WHU, Dick Turpin is alive and well and robbing for a living still.

Has Christmas been moved to September this year?

Behave, you were getting apoplectic when you heard we were going to sign Hourihane! OK, that's because of what previously happened (understandable), but Forest, if they buy Dennis, could take their spending into nine figures. I think the best way to get promoted out of the Championship - without incurring massive debt - is to build over a few seasons, sell a  player, re-invest, Swansea & Brentford as examples.
Forest are certainly going for it, alright. Going to be broke. Boom & bust, that's modern football. After what happened to us, they're welcome to it.
 

Behave, you were getting apoplectic when you heard we were going to sign Hourihane! OK, that's because of what previously happened (understandable), but Forest, if they buy Dennis, could take their spending into nine figures. I think the best way to get promoted out of the Championship - without incurring massive debt - is to build over a few seasons, sell a  player, re-invest, Swansea & Brentford as examples.
Forest are certainly going for it, alright. Going to be broke. Boom & bust, that's modern football. After what happened to us, they're welcome to it.
 

Behave, you were getting apoplectic when you heard we were going to sign Hourihane! OK, that's because of what previously happened (understandable), but Forest, if they buy Dennis, could take their spending into nine figures. I think the best way to get promoted out of the Championship - without incurring massive debt - is to build over a few seasons, sell a  player, re-invest, Swansea & Brentford as examples.
Forest are certainly going for it, alright. Going to be broke. Boom & bust, that's modern football. After what happened to us, they're welcome to it.
 

Forest may stay up, but what they are doing is unsustainable. Look at Leicester. Benevolent owners, sold players for big money (Chilwell, Maguire) & now reported to have to sell before they can buy.
Forest have spent big but on young players rather than proven performers, there's a lack of experience in the team bar Lingard. It's never a good idea to sign players attracted by wages, which was one of the reasons which led to our downfall. 
How things can  quickly change
I remember reading some comments by Nigel Doughty from an AGM/chairman's statement in 2008  (posted online) where he advocated Forest continue their prudent approach (the much criticised transfer committee) following promotion &, without directly mentioning names, stated how he wished to avoid the scenario of paying silly wages/poor signings made by rival clubs (our disastrous PL season).
Flash forward three years, and Mr Doughty reluctantly put his beloved side up for sale after sections of the Forest fanbase protested, their wage bill spiralling after three seasons of near-misses under Billy Davies.
Part of me is envious, but a greater part of me thinks Forest achieved promotion by being smart in the market last season & that they appear to have dispensed with this approach. There's no way I'd be happy to pay a player £120k a week, even for a year. For that money, Forest would have done better to use these resources to bring Garner back on a permanent deal. Whatever your view on Garner, he was part of a successful midfield that was well-balanced. I'd say the Forest midfield looks weaker going into the new season than it did last May.
There's an argument that a promoted club should bring in only a certain number of players in key areas, and this is what Jim Smith did with some smart signings like Laursen & in particular, Asanovic (creativity), as well as other players making the step to the next level (Carsley, Sturridge, first season). It also makes you wonder how much input Steve Cooper had regarding the signing of Lingard or if it is an act of desperation.
Of course, I'd rather be in the Championship etc, but I'd rather be in our situation now with a responsible owner who appears to be saying all the right things, and is even counselling the fanbase not to get themselves into debt (the season ticket situation). We will eventually turn things round under such an owner. The PL is the law of diminishing returns for middle-ranking clubs.

Forest may stay up, but what they are doing is unsustainable. Look at Leicester. Benevolent owners, sold players for big money (Chilwell, Maguire) & now reported to have to sell before they can buy.
Forest have spent big but on young players rather than proven performers, there's a lack of experience in the team bar Lingard. It's never a good idea to sign players attracted by wages, which was one of the reasons which led to our downfall. 
How things can  quickly change
I remember reading some comments by Nigel Doughty from an AGM/chairman's statement in 2008  (posted online) where he advocated Forest continue their prudent approach (the much criticised transfer committee) following promotion &, without directly mentioning names, stated how he wished to avoid the scenario of paying silly wages/poor signings made by rival clubs (our disastrous PL season).
Flash forward three years, and Mr Doughty reluctantly put his beloved side up for sale after sections of the Forest fanbase protested, their wage bill spiralling after three seasons of near-misses under Billy Davies.
Part of me is envious, but a greater part of me thinks Forest achieved promotion by being smart in the market last season & that they appear to have dispensed with this approach. There's no way I'd be happy to pay a player £120k a week, even for a year. For that money, Forest would have done better to use these resources to bring Garner back on a permanent deal. Whatever your view on Garner, he was part of a successful midfield that was well-balanced. I'd say the Forest midfield looks weaker going into the new season than it did last May.
There's an argument that a promoted club should bring in only a certain number of players in key areas, and this is what Jim Smith did with some smart signings like Laursen & in particular, Asanovic (creativity), as well as other players making the step to the next level (Carsley, Sturridge, first season). It also makes you wonder how much input Steve Cooper had regarding the signing of Lingard or if it is an act of desperation.
Of course, I'd rather be in the Championship etc, but I'd rather be in our situation now with a responsible owner who appears to be saying all the right things, and is even counselling the fanbase not to get themselves into debt (the season ticket situation). We will eventually turn things round under such an owner. The PL is the law of diminishing returns for middle-ranking clubs.

I've said this before but we shouldn't sell our best young players, especially to bang average championship clubs, unless a stupid offer comes in (it won't) which we have to take. I expect Bird to stay and be a key part of the Derby County rebuild.

Gibson: £100m

I don’t think David is that kind of “attention seeker” . We do not see him walking round the pitch with every new signing , pointing up to the North stand saying “ Look where I sit”. He will let people do their jobs and keep out of the changing room. A breath of fresh air.

If our business so far is down to Pete and Jon then I'd suggest the early signs are that they've been a damn sight more effective than previous recruitment teams!

"It wasn't me who scouted him (Oduroh), but somebody at the club I had mentioned in my pre-match press conference last week," he said. "We don't have a recruitment team at the moment. Every club has around 10 to 15 people working in a recruitment team, but because of what has happened at the club we haven't had one.
"Pete Shuttleworth, who is the club analyst, has probably spent 24 hours a day scouring not just this country but the continent. As an analyst, has gone above and beyond to help this football club. It's the same with Jon Howard. It's a collaboration and we are all working beyond our roles but that's what this club deserves and how it has to continue moving forward."

Caught up with an article in the athletic and all the comments from obviously misinformed rival fans who from some of the comments didn’t read the article. Usual theme think about the tax man, needs to be made public what we have/haven’t paid etc.
However the main crux of the article is Clowes has paid c£60m all including £3.7m for Q and £22m for stadium.
I can’t remember where our football debts and unsecured creditor debts stood but didn’t think they were huge, HMRC was anything between £29m-£36m. Taking away Q and Stadium, that’s £34.3m towards paying off the debts. Assuming football creditors 100% and unsecured creditors 25% and Mel got nothing (except paying off MSD),  I can’t see any scenario where HMRC has got less than 50%, potentially could even be 66% or 75%. 
So in other words these rival fans can jog on as this would be by far the biggest percentage of debt paid off in recent administrations. 
 
Not that it matters now anyway.

Yes, the philosophy in that respect was right, and is something that DC can now build on. 

They were lost because of Morris' mismanagement but also he made it possible to sign/grow such youngsters. 
It's painful to lose such talents for peanuts but I think improving the academy is going to be a positive heritage in the long run. 

So when people say that reaching the Premier league is "worth 100m plus" they don't mean for the club, if they've got to piss it all away on a few players nobody's ever heard of, but who "might" keep them up... ?

I think it's a great move for both. One is young & wants to prove himself at the next level so Brighton will monitor his progress. Wildsmith is at a bit of a crossroads in his career but  has joined another big-hitter which needs to regroup. It's an opportunity to rebuild his confidence & reputation. Look at Lee Camp, career faltered at Derby, ended up being a cult hero at the club whose name we dare not speak. It does happen.
The worse that happens is that Wildsmith prospers (keeps his place on merit) & Brighton cut short Rushworth's loan, he ends up elsewhere in League 1 etc, & we just bring in another promising GK.
 Competition is part & parcel of football, and it's probably what we lacked last season (depth).

Yeah fair comment, get that. Maybe I'm biased. No, I know I am.  Not a fan of Luton. As you may have guessed.  Its not far from me so I know it pretty well.  Unfortunately ?

I accept that Bremen can offer top tier football, but most of their signings are frees & their manager has never coached at the top level. I don't think it's the wisest move, and I think there's a bit of a legacy from Forest showing interest. I expect him to return to England within a year.
Jan '23: Lee Buchanan joins Premier League strugglers, Nott'm Forest, on loan with a view to a permanent deal in the summer.
I think he's one of these players who thinks he's better than he is. Tbh, I am more disappointed in Marco Gabbiadini who I think is his agent. I don't think Buchanan has been well-advised, though Gabbiadini has shown himself adept at finding a contractual loophole.
 

Maybe because LR wanted two keepers capable of playing at this level? That's the basis of any competent squad after all.