Ghost of Clough

D be very disappointed in those trades, especially with Bird being thrown into the mix. Where's the resale value in that group? If you're lucky, you'll get back what you spend. The value sof Bird and Knight will only increase from this point.
Clarke-Harris - already at his peak, one dimensional, risk at Championship level
May - not suited to the style we'll play, already 29, hit a purple patch in his career, never played above league 1
Brannigan - another in the peak of his career, weaker defensively than Bird, only a little bit more creative, assists less, goals come mostly from penalties
Bonnis - another risk due to onpy ever playing in the N. Ireland leagues.

D be very disappointed in those trades, especially with Bird being thrown into the mix. Where's the resale value in that group? If you're lucky, you'll get back what you spend. The value sof Bird and Knight will only increase from this point.
Clarke-Harris - already at his peak, one dimensional, risk at Championship level
May - not suited to the style we'll play, already 29, hit a purple patch in his career, never played above league 1
Brannigan - another in the peak of his career, weaker defensively than Bird, only a little bit more creative, assists less, goals come mostly from penalties
Bonnis - another risk due to onpy ever playing in the N. Ireland leagues.

D be very disappointed in those trades, especially with Bird being thrown into the mix. Where's the resale value in that group? If you're lucky, you'll get back what you spend. The value sof Bird and Knight will only increase from this point.
Clarke-Harris - already at his peak, one dimensional, risk at Championship level
May - not suited to the style we'll play, already 29, hit a purple patch in his career, never played above league 1
Brannigan - another in the peak of his career, weaker defensively than Bird, only a little bit more creative, assists less, goals come mostly from penalties
Bonnis - another risk due to onpy ever playing in the N. Ireland leagues.

D be very disappointed in those trades, especially with Bird being thrown into the mix. Where's the resale value in that group? If you're lucky, you'll get back what you spend. The value sof Bird and Knight will only increase from this point.
Clarke-Harris - already at his peak, one dimensional, risk at Championship level
May - not suited to the style we'll play, already 29, hit a purple patch in his career, never played above league 1
Brannigan - another in the peak of his career, weaker defensively than Bird, only a little bit more creative, assists less, goals come mostly from penalties
Bonnis - another risk due to onpy ever playing in the N. Ireland leagues.

My cutoff is U18 summer intakes. A 16 year old joining a new club and being part of their U18 squad would eventually be an academy graduate.
A 16 year old joining another U18 squad half way through the season wouldn't meet my requirements.
Bogle is a Derby academy graduate. Brereton is a Forest graduate. Gordon isn't a Liverpool graduate. Cash isn't a Forest graduate. Plange and Ebiowei aren't Derby graduates.

We've done OK, but should have done a lot better based on the quality of players. There are a long list of reasons for that.
Your earlier suggestion was that the players produced aren't actually as good as we think. I and many others who have greater knowledge of youth football than you disagree.
My typical starring point is maturity of the academy. Forest have a steady stream of players for decades. Their entire setup has been established for a long time.
However, Derby have been on and off for decades. Due to inconsistencies in our setup and approach, we've more or less had 3 bursts of players. Late 90s, mid 00s and late 10s/early 20s. Funding has switched from high to not at all, to low, to high, etc...
In the late 10s, we failed in a few areas. Lack off opportunities due to changing styles of the first team and extremely large first team squads.
As consistency in quality improved in the 20s, off field issues worsened. We were finally able to guve opportunities to youngsters due to squad size, but we were no longer able to retain them for long enough to increase their value. Imposed restrictions eventually meant we could only offer 1 year deals to promising players, resulting in them leaving for basic compensation fees. Restrictions also meant we had to release youngsters who were on the fringes of the squad, just so we could boost our squad of over 21s to 15 people.

When every Derby County manager and the majority of the fan base disagree with your opinion, generally, your opinion will be wrong.

That was a suggestion, not a 'rumour'

Since you aren't counting Bogle (signed aged 15), you also can't include some from Forest including Brereton and Cash 

They EFL have treated every late wage payment case differently. Unsurprisingly, we were dealt with most harshly of all.

We've done OK, but should have done a lot better based on the quality of players. There are a long list of reasons for that.
Your earlier suggestion was that the players produced aren't actually as good as we think. I and many others who have greater knowledge of youth football than you disagree.
My typical starring point is maturity of the academy. Forest have a steady stream of players for decades. Their entire setup has been established for a long time.
However, Derby have been on and off for decades. Due to inconsistencies in our setup and approach, we've more or less had 3 bursts of players. Late 90s, mid 00s and late 10s/early 20s. Funding has switched from high to not at all, to low, to high, etc...
In the late 10s, we failed in a few areas. Lack off opportunities due to changing styles of the first team and extremely large first team squads.
As consistency in quality improved in the 20s, off field issues worsened. We were finally able to guve opportunities to youngsters due to squad size, but we were no longer able to retain them for long enough to increase their value. Imposed restrictions eventually meant we could only offer 1 year deals to promising players, resulting in them leaving for basic compensation fees. Restrictions also meant we had to release youngsters who were on the fringes of the squad, just so we could boost our squad of over 21s to 15 people.

Burke goes straight into Forest team, has a good season and they sell him for big money. Sibley breaks into ours, then spends a season on the bench, then we get relegated and appoint a manager who plays him at left back.  There’s absolutely a world where Sibley plays 35 games the season after his breakout, scores 15 goals and we sell him for big money.  That that didn’t happen is nothing to do with how good the 2 academies, or the 2 players, are.

When every Derby County manager and the majority of the fan base disagree with your opinion, generally, your opinion will be wrong.

Every Derby manager since Cocu first gave him a run in the first team had Bird down as one of the first names on the team sheet. One of those former managers is now trying to sign him in the division above us.

Since you aren't counting Bogle (signed aged 15), you also can't include some from Forest including Brereton and Cash 

Since you aren't counting Bogle (signed aged 15), you also can't include some from Forest including Brereton and Cash 

When every Derby County manager and the majority of the fan base disagree with your opinion, generally, your opinion will be wrong.

That was a suggestion, not a 'rumour'

FYI, @Caerphilly Ram (1st) and @Ambitious(2nd) recommended him in March in the 'Free Angents in the summer' thread. I was the 3rd to suggest him (May 18th) in the 'Summer Rumour Mill' thread, only for me to later rule it out when I thought he had signed an extension.

Until the rest of the squad is complete, it's hard to say. The simple answer is utility player.
RWB - Competition with Ward
CM - Rotation with Bird and Hourihane. Smith would be 4th choice, Tommo would be moving on to a new club.
AM/W - Competition with Mendez-Laing, Barkhuizen and Sibley

Until the rest of the squad is complete, it's hard to say. The simple answer is utility player.
RWB - Competition with Ward
CM - Rotation with Bird and Hourihane. Smith would be 4th choice, Tommo would be moving on to a new club.
AM/W - Competition with Mendez-Laing, Barkhuizen and Sibley

Their end product last season at RB/RWB speaks for itself. 
Knight - 1 goal in 12 games (4 contributions in a full season)
Ward - 4 goals and 5 assists in 28 games (15 contributions in a full season)

Mods, is the username @BigTravIsGod free please?
Ta...

I’ve unearthed a cunning Warne plan! 👍😁
 
EFL League One Team of the season 20/21
GK Lee Burge Sunderland
DF Luke O'Nien Sunderland
DF Robert Atkinson Oxford United
DF Mark Beevers Peterbourgh United
DF Callum Elder Hull City
MF Joe Ward Peterborough United
MF George Honeyman Hull City
MF Jorge Grant Lincoln City
FW Aiden McGeady Sunderland
FW Jonson Clarke-Harris PeterboroughUnited
FW Charlie Wyke Sunderland

His interview is good, he talks well.
Did chuckle when @Owen87ITKasked him what could we expect from him, as in, style of play etc and he just says "promotion". Call me a fan already.