Spanish

13 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

It seems to me a very bad state of affairs when 50,000 supporters can lose their Saturday entertainment through the ineficiency of the clubs owner in running the club beyond his means.

Also when the said owner tells the clubs fans he has pumped in 200 million into the club,does he not realise that so many fans have paid for season tickets,and match tickets they could properly afford.Morris should be put into administration,his riches stripped from him,and used to pay his debts(no it is not the clubs debt,Morris was the one who got us into this mess.

I wonder how he can sleep at night when tomorrow he will be telling many people they will at best be paid for less hours and at worst they will be loosing their jobs

that's the basic concept of corporate separate legal identity with a limited company having a limit on owner exposure

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

Deducted 12 this season unless we would have finished bottom 3 without the deduction. In that case, the deduction applies to next season.

I have never read that.

this is all I could find

12.3.1  during the Normal Playing Season but prior to 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March, the points deduction shall apply immediately;

1 minute ago, Charlie George said:

I see the club adverts aren't on here anymore. 

there is a thread on this

1 minute ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

?

202’s last filed accounts were June 2020 so not that out of date. 

In fact 202 is one of the few companies which is up to date with its accounts filing. 

I am looking to see whether Mel has repaid any of the debt that he owes for the purchase of the stadium from the club

23 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

I think at the moment it would be worth appealing any points deductions, it might delay the inevitable but also it might bring the EFL to the table and reduce them.

I think Mel said we were £4m over FFP. Birmingham were £13m over and received 7 points I think (5 deducted), we could use that as part of the appeal for less points.

Also use Covid as a reason for administration as the loss of £20m meant we couldnt service our debt.

Mind you, if we didnt have a couple of years of mad spending we would not be in this position.  I dont dislike Mel, his heart was in the right place and they do say supporters shouldnt own the club. However he cannot take aim at what other clubs have or dont have, this is about DCFC and what he did and didnt do. I think Stephen Pearce is getting away lightly here, as an accountant he should have been the voice of reason. In the end we are were we are due to them.

 

he quoted it as a single year, not sure whether we can read into that anything at all

4 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

thought he went to punch the black and white pole but missed.....?

Joz?

44 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

I still think something weird is going on, normally the sequence of events is

1. Directors/owners decide as they cannot pay the bills as they fall due, they need to put the club into administration so as they are not trading whilst insolvent which would leave them open to serious legal peril.

2. They take advice and approach insolvency specialists.

3. Notice is filed and taken to court for authorisation to appoint the administrators.

4. Once authorisation granted Administrators arrive at the company/club get the door keys and take control of all the bank accounts, petty cash etc.

5. They then send in some junior staff to start pulling together all the financial information and prepare a creditors listing and any debtors who owe the club money.

Normally the administrators arrive same day or day after administrative order approved by the court, so my conclusion is that as no one has arrived at the stadium with that order, technically the club is not yet in administration.

I also find it a little strange that the club has not bought in some turnaround expertise to work on a plan to trade through the current situation especially as Mel Morris stated that the club could  now trade within its means going forwards, obviously there has been an event to trigger this situation, which I guess we will never find out, however as the club cannot be wound up whilst under administration, although the administrator can liquidate the club if there is no hope of saving it as a going concern I think that the event to trigger this could have come from the HMRC with a threatened winding up order.

However I believe that until the administrator bangs on the front door there could be some hope.

 

 

The intention defeats creditors for 2 weeks ish, it can be extended

1 hour ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

Thought it owed £73m to DCFC which no doubt the administrator of DCFC would be keen to collect?

We are talking about Gellaw 202 here aren’t we?

Based on out of date accounts, I think it maybe a lot less with the subsequent money injected by Mel recognised as loan repayments, we will see 

Just now, Warwick Ram said:

I believe by putting us into administration it relinquishes Mel of any debts. In my opinion I reckon the stumbling block around the takeover is any new owner doesn’t want Mel’s debts and Mel doesn’t want to keep paying them.

Mel could walk away now debt free and he has the stadium.

don't think he has fully paid for the stadium yet but how much is still left to pay is not known by us

6 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Wasn’t sure if the value, just some believe the whole £80m was profit. 

I didn't

10 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Keep in mind the “profit” the club took by selling the ground is only the difference between it’s book value and it’s current value. About £23m I seem to recall?

keep in mind the following

#DCFC sold their stadium to one of owner Mel Morris’s companies for £81m (independent valuation), which gave a £40m gain over the £41m value in the books.

14 minutes ago, alram said:

it is time for proper organised demonstrations against Mel. We will all support the team in the ground but for me we need to make our voices heard and hold him to account, not just a few chants in the ground occasionally.

he has been allowed to get away with murder, it has to be made clear it can't continue as if we sit silent this club WILL NOT EXIST by the end of the season mark my words

Move on, new owners won't like this, make lots of noise, make news with loyalty not by venting your spleen

10 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The EFl CAN just settle, though the panel needs to put a rubber stamp on it. The reason they can settle on a basis that departs from values is that there is still debate and potential dispute about what amortisation policy is and is not permitted under FRS 102

they have other members to consider and they may (will) object to any softness shown to us.  We have been ordered to restate our accounts, at least at an EFL level there is no dispute, that ship has sailed.  Take this to the High Court then that maybe a different story

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I took it that our position was, 4 points was fair. And the EFl said, aha but you’ve breached in the following period(s) as well, so we’ll settle for 9   As you say, M’s view was that the EFL’s position was not fair 

they can't just settle, such breaches are linked to values.  what is up for negotiation is any further penalties for being underhand.  I guess the club under administration would be freed from this charge

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

These are the figures for the relevant seasons, using the 'Derby Method' and after P&S exclusions:
15/16 = £15.3m loss
16/17 = £13.4m loss
17/18 = £7.2m profit
3 years to 2018 = £17.5m within the limit

Derby method amortisation in those years:
15/16 = £3.37m
16/17 = £5.04m
17/18 = £6.64m
Total = £14.95m

I estimated the amortisation under a standard policy to be £36.8m, and an increase in transfer profit of about £3.5m. That equates to overspending by just under £1m.
As you know, estimating how we 'valued' players under our amortisation policy is incredibly difficult to predict. So too is guessing player transfer fees.

It's possible the EFL are using a very basic amortisation policy (amortise over original contract length) which will make the figures worse. Typical amortisation policies allow for readjustment when extending contract and allow for impairment (big drop in value upon relegation or injury).

£4m overspend under typical policy sounds reasonable though.

it is astounding when you consider that we had to sell PP and still breach though.  Maybe when he said 17/18 he was referencing the end of the 3 year period

17 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yesterday Morris indicated in passing that the effect of the breach was felt in successive testing periods. 

so the stadium was sold in 17/18 period and that gave us a lot of headroom which should have cleared 15/18, 16/19,and 17/20 no matter what form of amortorisation we used.  So we should only fail 14/17 if there was one may have been a single year before 2017? .  I am still baffled by this perhaps @Ghost of Cloughcan help me out here.

10 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yesterday Morris indicated in passing that the effect of the breach was felt in successive testing periods. 

not sure he did really, he said it would not be fair to suffer multiple penalties for a single offence I think?.  The £4m would have been wiped out by the stadium sale, I will see if I still have a copy of this

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I wouldn't put him above playing hardball "oh it's an £80 million pound stadium, if you want to play in it you need to pay the going rate" and the new DCFC saying "ok, we can negotiate a groundshare at notts county/burton albion, given the league we are playing in" etc.

 

perhaps that's we helped out with Mickleover when they had their pitch stolen, that will be our ground share??

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The situation is not the same, Rangers do occupy a fairly unique spot in the make up of Scotland (that extends beyond the football club).

However, there is a good analogy for a route back. It would take a lot longer for us, be a harder road and the end point may well be a league 1/championship club. However, the approach could be emulated and the desire for Derby to have a football club is strong enough for a team to rise.

I'd rather a phoenix club exist in Derby than nothing and have to watch Partick Thistle.

why not just take the points penalty and start from L2 rather than farther down

6 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Agree.. but would he do it knowingly that there was a chance of liquidation

Or that removing himself from the equation appeases the efl (to an extent) and makes the process of buying the club an easier one 

 

im only throwing it out there 

 

 

the analogy is very dramatic and probably one I will regret, but threatening admin in these circumstances is a like a writing a suicide note whilst standing in the middle of the M1.  It is a humongous gamble that someone will read it and save you 

2 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Glasgow Rangers restarted with all things (ground etc.) the same?

you have a dream, good for you.

My view is that we are not Rangers (one of the top 2 teams in Scotland), this is not Scotland there are far more leagues to navigate, this is not Scotland the competition is far more fierce, Derby is not Glasgow

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's such a poor and ill thought out observation.

Morris was the custodian of the club, it was his responsibility to ensure that whatever expenditure was being outlayed it was within his gift to cover it. Something which he patently failed to do. 

I guess it was the peer pressure from the fans to also sack Clement when we were 5th in the league?

And I guess it was also the fans who forced Mel to sack Rush and Keogh then have to fork out massive compensation settlements for both afterwards.

Your support of Morris is to be applauded however it is totally misguided. 

that must be another one contributing to the 'lets build a statue of Mel' fund

27 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

If that's the case then surely liquidate the club and start again?

I'd imagine there is a bigger apatite from fans over a new phoenix club than there would be for the above scenario. It's not even remotely close for me. Hit the reset button and start again for me. 

no ground, no history, over 130 years of records extinguished, playing non league football on a pitch shared by another similar team.  Re start is not the phrase.

17 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

It sounds horrendous … it was written by a red dog though.. hes going to add a few extra layers on though isnt he 

mel has done many things badly … do u think he would let us be liquidated though? 

no longer his choice though

6 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. It's impossible to keep up with all the threads at the moment but this is essential listening.

The Price of Football - Derby County in administration

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/Derby-county-in-administration/id1482886394?i=1000535953160

One thing that stands out. The HRMC filed a winding up order against the club in January 2020, which was at the start of the pandemic in the UK but a couple of months before lockdown, so the idea that COVID is the reason we're in administration is clearly nonsensical, despite Mel's claims to the contrary.

wow, any proof of that