Jourdan

At this moment I trust David Clowes. He has signed Warne on a 4 year deal and therefore Warne will be our manager next season. Owners largely succeed on their recruitment of managers. I hope Clowes made a good decision.
Managers largely succeed on their recruitment of players. Warne hasn’t had much chance yet. He will know this summer’s transfer window is huge for him and the club.
By around November we’ll have a sense of how we’re doing. Personally I think anyone judging Clowes or Warne before then is being a little premature.

The debate is running along the same lines as the protagonists whom believe that the EFL have instructed all referees to give contentious decisions against us etc which to be fair has died down a huge amount save the usual hardcore of posters whom won't be swayed by reason or fact.
Which is pretty much where we are with the Paul Warne debate, the anti Warne brigade has now become whittled down to a hardcore of posters whom regardless of reason or fact or logic still cling onto their mantra.
To answer your question what do they get out of this? Would be fairer to ask them.

I think the 'style' issue is a difficult one because a lot of football fans have been brainwashed into thinking that unless you have 50 passes through the lines, starting with the goalkeeper then you play ugly football.
This argument has been strengthened by the dogged insistence that stats and possession data should dictate the future of football. Its a strange one because somebody like Brian Clough who hated hoofball, never played out from the back, however he was considered a manager who played good football.
Anybody who watched our game yesterday couldn't describe us as a long ball team. We largely played the ball on the floor and as far as I'm concerned, if we do that quickly, we have more chance of catching the opposition out of position.
Warnes style will be defined next season when he has the players he wants, but I'd say that the signs so far are promising that we will play a fast, pressing, attacking style of football.

It is bad faith. A lot of the teams we played under Rosenior at the time were in worse form (such as Barnsley for example) at the beginning of the season and hadn't really gotten going. Football teams can be pretty streaky with form, and whilst they might be good over a season, form at the point of the fixture is actually really relevant to assessing results. What you posted was about the final positions of teams that we played 6 games in. That's posting in bad faith. 
I don't think we've been perfect, there have been games we've not played well. My position has always been that until Warne is given the ability to recruit, I think it's unfair to be too critical, he made the core of the squad solid, but ultimately had to deal with a squad that didn't synergise all that well. I think he has laid the groundwork that with his own additions, we will look a good side. And if we don't, and 20 games in we're struggling, I'll agree with you he's doing a poor job. But he needs the chance to add players to his squad.

My view is we need to stick with PW for the long term, even if we miss out next year.  Chopping and changing got us in this mess and we’re still in the process of a complete rebuild.
My expectation at the start of the season was 7 - 10th but I didn’t expect to be this close to the play offs.  Partly because not many teams, regardless of how big, go straight back up and lots of examples have been given.  I also thought we were in a similar position to the last time we were at this level, arguably worse.  In both cases we’ve needed a completely new squad, and that takes time to gel.
Both LR and PW did a good job.  LR to get players to come, particularly late in the window and the financial restrictions.  We can bemoan the lack of a right back, quality of striker but he probably thought he had Nathan Byrne (who would have been a good RWB) and quality strikers for free are very rare.  PW did well to get them as close as he did, given the age profile and size of the squad.  I think the blip in Feb/Mar would have happened if it was LR, PW or, heaven forbid, any of us as manager.  Other teams were able to spend in Jan, we couldn’t and free’s them are free for a reason.  I think someone said Sheff Wed used 14 more players, like it or not that makes a difference.
And it’s not just about the first team.  We’ve had to rebuild behind the scenes, e.g. head of recruitment, and that will continue, particularly the academy.  Lets be patient, give PW the time he needs to build for the long term.

I’ve always been in the camp of giving managers time and a fair crack of the whip. I was disappointed when Liam wasn’t given the job, I was initially angry when Warne was given it as I lazily stereotyped him as a long ball merchant who can only manage small clubs. Then looking into the guy and listening to some of those podcasts, I felt he deserved a chance at this as I think there is much more to him than the lazy stereotype. 
I’ve only been to 7 away games in all comps this season, 6 under Warne so I’m not the best judge but from those games plus the home games I’ve seen, yes we’re more direct than under Liam but I haven’t seen this long ball style some people are still hammering Warne with. I think our best performances (not necessarily results as I include Shrewsbury MK and Portsmouth in this) we’ve had a nice blend of playing through midfield and going front to back quickly. Also, there is nothing wrong with long ball if it’s targeted, the Ipswich first goal at Pride Park is the best goal I’ve seen this season. It’s the aimless long ball stuff that is frustrating and to be honest I haven’t seen much of it. But I appreciate those who have been to more away games may have a different view.
In terms of assessing Warne, this season he was always going to get a pass and to be fair he’s done ok. We will never know how Liam would have done but to be honest I don’t think he would have fared any better. We’ve narrowly missed out on playoffs, we’ve finished behind Plymouth who were able to be more active in transfer window and have built a squad over 2 years, Ipswich whose wage budget is double ours and they spent best part of £10m on players (let that sink in a moment), Sheff W again built over 2 seasons and bigger budget than us, Barnsley who had a very successful January and came down with us, Bolton who were able to be more active in transfers than us and again have built under the same manager, and Posh who finished above us in the championship don’t forget last season and came down with largely the same team, and were able to go and sign another lower league gem or two - something we can’t do because of restrictions. Yes we could’ve finished 5th or 6th but that realistically was our best hope with hindsight and we weren’t too far off, it was also a genuine playoff push we finished comfortably ahead of mid table. Warne has IMO achieved the minimum expectation for this season and so has done ok, no more than that. In Derby’s history it’s the joint lowest finish ever, that context is important we should be doing a lot better as a club but we know where we were a year ago, we could have been way off this season potentially but with a cobbled together squad we’re not far away. 
 
Next season Warne will rightly be held to a different standard. We’re close now, we have a full summer of recruitment ahead which we’ve not had the luxury of for a couple of seasons. Yes we have restrictions but he should be able to put together his squad and mount a serious promotion campaign next season. If we don’t get promoted next season then questions will need to be asked and I think 1.75 seasons is a sufficient period of time to judge.

I'm normally one to call out discussions that are mind numbingly binary but I'm not sure this is one of them - Generally it seems to me that there is a feeling that Warne has done okay given the circumstances. Some don't warm to the style or the person but with the lack of resources, the incredibly small squad he's done okay. On the other hand there are those that describe the season as a 'failure of epic proportions' those who bafflingly see anything from this season other than promotion is unacceptable.
For what it's worth, I'm an outlier on the positive side - Given the age, size and profile of the squad, playing 57 games - I think it's a fantastic effort. Our oppenents yesterday used 14 more players accross the season. Imagine if we'd been able to use 14 more players....

Managers like Warne cant win in that situation though.
If he goes all out and he's naive and should know better.
If he shuts up shop he's too negative and Derby fans should expect better.

Do you really take any notice of what the manager and the players say in the media? Why do they have media training? They can’t say what they truly think and their answers are carefully manicured like Beyoncé’s nails.
If Warne genuinely thought this season was a failure, he would be honorable and resign. He is saying it is a failure because he thinks that kind of accountability is what fans of a big club like ours, the big fish in a small pond, want to hear.
I prefer to make up my own mind and from my perspective, it’s not a failure nor a success, but a learning curve. 
Have we at any point this season looked like one of the top three teams in this division? If not, how have we failed?
Also, this idea that we are poor v top sides seems misguided to me. How many top sides have played us off the park and left us well beaten? Arguably two - Ipswich at PP and Barnsley at Oakwell, and even the outcome of those could be debated.
Pretty much all other games have been tight, back and forth, well-contested and decided by fine margins. The only noticeable patterns I have observed is poor refereeing, missed chances at key times, and costly defensive mistakes going against us.
We can only control two of those and I am sure Warne will be looking to add more goalscorers to the team and to tighten up the defence.
We all want to improve, we all want to see better times and progression, but I stand by what I said. You are usually very fair and even handed. There has been little evidence of that lately.

Wildsmith will be first choice goalkeeper and deservedly so.
Time will tell on everything else. Who wants to stay? We don’t know. Who does Warne want to keep and see as part of his plans? We as yet don’t know.
I think the first thing I would be looking to do is tie down Forsyth and McGoldrick for another year. Both of them are absolutely top professionals and will be mainstays in the team if they decide to stay.

An absolute class act.
I hope he doesn’t get the Keogh or Roos treatment.
Some players just pass through, but he has really taken the club to heart. Let’s not forget how thrilled we were to see him sign a new contract last summer. He has built up that kind of connection with the club.
This season probably hasn’t gone as he would have expected, and today’s minute of madness probably underlined that.
But that doesn’t diminish years of great service. I hope he stays in the fold in some capacity. If not, he goes with nothing but complete respect and well wishes.

I feel like you have let yourself down here. We’ve missed out on the play-offs by a point, not ten. Calling it a failure is sensationalism.
You’ve long been considered one of the most respected and most measured posters on the forum, but in recent months it seems you have abandoned that sense of balance and perspective previously held.
You’ve been on a singular mission to discredit the manager, diminish any good he has done and superimpose the bad, and to what end?
Warne will be back next season and as a club hopefully we’ll have learnt lessons and be wiser and stronger after this experience. The time to be heavy handed is this time next year if Warne hasn’t moved us forward. 
Top two should be the aim.

I think two words define this season: fine margins. Since February, we’ve fallen on the wrong side of them every time. 
The players gave everything today and the performance was a creditable one. The game hinged on one mistake and sometimes in football that’s all it takes.
Some might deem this season a failure and the anti-Warne sentiment will no doubt be in overdrive over the coming days and weeks, but it’s needless.
Personally I don’t think at any point we’ve looked like one of the three best teams in the division, so I don’t think there should be much of a hangover if any at all. The signs have been there that it is simply one season too soon.
We just have to lick our wounds, regroup quickly, have a positive rebuild over the summer and go out and finish in the top two in 23-24.
Not going into the Championship with this group of players and under financial restrictions could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
I said this a few weeks ago and the sentiment remains - this is where Warne’s work really starts.

Wildsmith will be first choice goalkeeper and deservedly so.
Time will tell on everything else. Who wants to stay? We don’t know. Who does Warne want to keep and see as part of his plans? We as yet don’t know.
I think the first thing I would be looking to do is tie down Forsyth and McGoldrick for another year. Both of them are absolutely top professionals and will be mainstays in the team if they decide to stay.

And what’s my position?
I wanted to give a manager with a good track record and experience in the division a chance, yes. I wanted him to succeed, yes.
I think he deserves time to bring in his own players and put his stamp on things and not be written off after less than a season and marginally missing out on the play offs in the challenging circumstances he inherited, yes.
If that’s all I am guilty of, I can live with that. 
Next season is a completely different animal and Warne should be held to a different standard. He will have a full summer window to operate in, a full pre season to embed exactly what he wants, and everyone starts on zero. Any disadvantages he will have can be countered with months of careful and considered strategic planning.
I think we will be placed amongst the frontrunners given what we know about the division as it is, the instability of the teams coming down and the strength of the teams going up. Last summer ask a random Derby fan and we could have finished anywhere from 1st to 14th.
Next season, we will have much more clarity. Warne needs a strong start next season and he needs promotion next season, or people’s patience will genuinely desert him. 
If you are upset that people would suggest you are not being fair, perhaps don’t draw up Excel spreadsheets and come across like you’re only furthering an agenda?
See you in August!

And what’s my position?
I wanted to give a manager with a good track record and experience in the division a chance, yes. I wanted him to succeed, yes.
I think he deserves time to bring in his own players and put his stamp on things and not be written off after less than a season and marginally missing out on the play offs in the challenging circumstances he inherited, yes.
If that’s all I am guilty of, I can live with that. 
Next season is a completely different animal and Warne should be held to a different standard. He will have a full summer window to operate in, a full pre season to embed exactly what he wants, and everyone starts on zero. Any disadvantages he will have can be countered with months of careful and considered strategic planning.
I think we will be placed amongst the frontrunners given what we know about the division as it is, the instability of the teams coming down and the strength of the teams going up. Last summer ask a random Derby fan and we could have finished anywhere from 1st to 14th.
Next season, we will have much more clarity. Warne needs a strong start next season and he needs promotion next season, or people’s patience will genuinely desert him. 
If you are upset that people would suggest you are not being fair, perhaps don’t draw up Excel spreadsheets and come across like you’re only furthering an agenda?
See you in August!

And what’s my position?
I wanted to give a manager with a good track record and experience in the division a chance, yes. I wanted him to succeed, yes.
I think he deserves time to bring in his own players and put his stamp on things and not be written off after less than a season and marginally missing out on the play offs in the challenging circumstances he inherited, yes.
If that’s all I am guilty of, I can live with that. 
Next season is a completely different animal and Warne should be held to a different standard. He will have a full summer window to operate in, a full pre season to embed exactly what he wants, and everyone starts on zero. Any disadvantages he will have can be countered with months of careful and considered strategic planning.
I think we will be placed amongst the frontrunners given what we know about the division as it is, the instability of the teams coming down and the strength of the teams going up. Last summer ask a random Derby fan and we could have finished anywhere from 1st to 14th.
Next season, we will have much more clarity. Warne needs a strong start next season and he needs promotion next season, or people’s patience will genuinely desert him. 
If you are upset that people would suggest you are not being fair, perhaps don’t draw up Excel spreadsheets and come across like you’re only furthering an agenda?
See you in August!

Do you really take any notice of what the manager and the players say in the media? Why do they have media training? They can’t say what they truly think and their answers are carefully manicured like Beyoncé’s nails.
If Warne genuinely thought this season was a failure, he would be honorable and resign. He is saying it is a failure because he thinks that kind of accountability is what fans of a big club like ours, the big fish in a small pond, want to hear.
I prefer to make up my own mind and from my perspective, it’s not a failure nor a success, but a learning curve. 
Have we at any point this season looked like one of the top three teams in this division? If not, how have we failed?
Also, this idea that we are poor v top sides seems misguided to me. How many top sides have played us off the park and left us well beaten? Arguably two - Ipswich at PP and Barnsley at Oakwell, and even the outcome of those could be debated.
Pretty much all other games have been tight, back and forth, well-contested and decided by fine margins. The only noticeable patterns I have observed is poor refereeing, missed chances at key times, and costly defensive mistakes going against us.
We can only control two of those and I am sure Warne will be looking to add more goalscorers to the team and to tighten up the defence.
We all want to improve, we all want to see better times and progression, but I stand by what I said. You are usually very fair and even handed. There has been little evidence of that lately.

It's a good team and I really thought we would get in the playoffs I'm still a bit shell shocked that we actually haven't made it.
But the team isn't as good as some of us think it is. There are still holes there and Warne has been getting on at this for a while. We had that fantastic run but that's all it was, a great run because we weren't good enough to sustain it over a season.
We have a good team but we still lack something. Some of the players really aren't as good as we think they are. Cashin has been fantastic but our other academy graduates haven't exactly ripped the league up. Some players such as Dobbin and Roberts have been learning their trade, some players are past their best. Without McGoldrick we seriously lack goals. Fact. 
I'm disappointed but already looking forward to next season. The foundations are there, we're not a million miles away. We have a few positions to fill but with some good recruitment I really think we can have a crack at the top 2.

An absolute class act.
I hope he doesn’t get the Keogh or Roos treatment.
Some players just pass through, but he has really taken the club to heart. Let’s not forget how thrilled we were to see him sign a new contract last summer. He has built up that kind of connection with the club.
This season probably hasn’t gone as he would have expected, and today’s minute of madness probably underlined that.
But that doesn’t diminish years of great service. I hope he stays in the fold in some capacity. If not, he goes with nothing but complete respect and well wishes.

Who is saying people should be jubilant? I am not jubilant. I am thoroughly disappointed and frustrated.
I have not even said Warne has done a successful job. I have said this season has been a learning curve and next season is the season to expect and demand success as we should, in theory, be better placed for that.
People are more than entitled to their concerns, but it’s all in the way you put them across.
I don’t really understand what is confusing. I think Warne was a sensible appointment given his track record and in time I think he will prove that.
Should next season be a disaster, then of course those who have advocated for him like myself will look silly.
When I was vocal about previous managers like Cocu, Rooney and Rosenior, getting pushback was the norm. Why should those in the anti Warne brigade be immune?
I think it’s fair game if you are not rude or disrespectful.

I feel like you have let yourself down here. We’ve missed out on the play-offs by a point, not ten. Calling it a failure is sensationalism.
You’ve long been considered one of the most respected and most measured posters on the forum, but in recent months it seems you have abandoned that sense of balance and perspective previously held.
You’ve been on a singular mission to discredit the manager, diminish any good he has done and superimpose the bad, and to what end?
Warne will be back next season and as a club hopefully we’ll have learnt lessons and be wiser and stronger after this experience. The time to be heavy handed is this time next year if Warne hasn’t moved us forward. 
Top two should be the aim.

An absolute class act.
I hope he doesn’t get the Keogh or Roos treatment.
Some players just pass through, but he has really taken the club to heart. Let’s not forget how thrilled we were to see him sign a new contract last summer. He has built up that kind of connection with the club.
This season probably hasn’t gone as he would have expected, and today’s minute of madness probably underlined that.
But that doesn’t diminish years of great service. I hope he stays in the fold in some capacity. If not, he goes with nothing but complete respect and well wishes.

I think two words define this season: fine margins. Since February, we’ve fallen on the wrong side of them every time. 
The players gave everything today and the performance was a creditable one. The game hinged on one mistake and sometimes in football that’s all it takes.
Some might deem this season a failure and the anti-Warne sentiment will no doubt be in overdrive over the coming days and weeks, but it’s needless.
Personally I don’t think at any point we’ve looked like one of the three best teams in the division, so I don’t think there should be much of a hangover if any at all. The signs have been there that it is simply one season too soon.
We just have to lick our wounds, regroup quickly, have a positive rebuild over the summer and go out and finish in the top two in 23-24.
Not going into the Championship with this group of players and under financial restrictions could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
I said this a few weeks ago and the sentiment remains - this is where Warne’s work really starts.

I feel like you have let yourself down here. We’ve missed out on the play-offs by a point, not ten. Calling it a failure is sensationalism.
You’ve long been considered one of the most respected and most measured posters on the forum, but in recent months it seems you have abandoned that sense of balance and perspective previously held.
You’ve been on a singular mission to discredit the manager, diminish any good he has done and superimpose the bad, and to what end?
Warne will be back next season and as a club hopefully we’ll have learnt lessons and be wiser and stronger after this experience. The time to be heavy handed is this time next year if Warne hasn’t moved us forward. 
Top two should be the aim.