Sheff UTD (A) - Match Thread

[DavesaRam]

8 hours ago, angieram said:

You're right, Alf, and the ones I know to chat to are women. There are a couple of blokes, but I don't know them well.

The whole setup is wrong, imo, because a sizeable proportion of that away support is male and influenced by drink or drugs.

Other blokes don't tackle them either. Safety first.

I would like to think that if a person was reported the club would act, but what can they do, really? It's obnoxious behaviour, rather than illegal. So the rest of us have to put up with it.

An example from yesterday. I arrived at the turnstiles just behind a load of lads singing the Sharp sex offender chant. The entrances are at the far left of the stand. Our seats are far right. The concourse is rammed with singers, beer going everywhere, no way through for a short lady in her late 60s.

So I try to go into the stand on the left, to get down to the front and make my way across the front of the seats. Sheffield stewards say no way and send me back into the mob. 

No customer service, and no recognition that some of us do actually need protecting from our fans.

I know most away fans would tell me to stay at home, but I'm not quite ready to give up on my football yet. But I am beginning to dread the whole experience more and more each season.

From personal experience listen out for anything that could be described as racist and report that. The stewards will have the lads out in no time at all.

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

For context I was at an England international cricket game a few days ago and the ground announcer was at pains to broadcast on several occasions that abuse of the players, obscene chanting etc etc would not be tolerated.

Never been frightened at a cricket game. No comparison
 

(Except when stokes clubbed one in our direction )

[IlsonDerby]

12 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

If David Clowes or anyone else at DCFC is reading about our away day experiences. Please take note that we don’t want to spoil the away day for other fans . But could we have a special section for fans who like to chuck beer over each other , take drugs , sing abhorrent chants and seem to have no actual interest in football. 

You could call it the ‘I think Greenstreet is a documentary’ stand. 

[brady1993]

Only had chance to watch back the first half as of yet but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to watch the second given how frustrating I found the first.

We played like a scared team coming off the back of a few losses who didn't really have a game plan they believed in or was cohesive. The reason in particular I say scared is because times we'd have tried to play our way out in the last couple games or showed a bit of patience were replaced with aimless punts and high risk passes with it not being on. You could also see it in the obvious indecisiveness at goal kicks and set pieces. The best example of it is we start trying to play football around the 15 minute mark and actually look pretty decent, we are playing it short from the goal kick and look like we can get a foothold into the game. Come the 25 minute mark Cashin makes an error and all that trying to play out just stops. It's this in particular what frustrates me because it clearly showed that we could try to play our game if we had the faith to keep going in spite of mistakes. I don't think it's surprising the amount of unenforced errors we were making given that particular mindset. 

Honestly with how easily we were giving the ball up, and how iffy we looked positionally in deep midfield areas (which I'll get to) if I didn't know the score line I would have guessed we get battered in the second half.  

Some will say 'Sheff utd are good team we had to play this way' but for me that misses the point. Regardless of opposition that's a bad performance, they didn't force us to punt it as often as we did to a striker who's not going to win it and with a midfield that's less likely to win the ball back than previous weeks. I don't know how much is laid to blame tactically, how much is the mindset they've been going out there with (this isn't the first time under Warne we've looked terrified against a 'better' side) and how much is players getting the jitters. I suspect it's a combination of the 3. If we'd have played like we did in the first half against Cardiff and gone in 2-0 down here I'd have been happier. (In part because I think we only didn't go in a few down here was good last man defending and a bit of luck). 

Midfield clearly needs addressing, this had the same problems that were on show in the second half versus Cardiff with that same kind of nervy energy and inability to build cohesion. It's harsh to lay the blame at Osborn's door but he's clearly not suited to play as a DM and isn't comfortable being the player play is channelled through in build up. I think this is especially true when you have to carry Adams in midfield when you are in possession. Maybe this is unavoidable without a suitable replacement for Ozoh but I can't shake the feeling more could be done. 

The other thing is I don't understand switching around the wingers positionally or where Adams and Goudmijn were positionally. Little connections and relationships had been building up and showed to be fruitful and this got disrupted.

[jimtastic56]

15 hours ago, trappatoni said:

Ok I rarely go away so this may be some new chant I don't know (have a home season ticket) but jail for singing Billy Sharp's a Sex Offender ?    

I haven't got a problem with the way our fans behave - last thing I'd want is police or stewards killing the atmosphere by policing that contingent more than they already do.  

Small sections of “Fans” singing about alleged sex offenders does not lift the atmosphere in any way , shape or form. 

[Kathcairns]

28 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Small sections of “Fans” singing about alleged sex offenders does not lift the atmosphere in any way , shape or form. 

Agree, if that small group were thrown out it would prob lift the atmosphere. Dont get me wrong, i am not a prude by anymeans but abusive chants to certain players is not on.

[Anag Ram]

49 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Only had chance to watch back the first half as of yet but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to watch the second given how frustrating I found the first.

We played like a scared team coming off the back of a few losses who didn't really have a game plan they believed in or was cohesive. The reason in particular I say scared is because times we'd have tried to play our way out in the last couple games or showed a bit of patience were replaced with aimless punts and high risk passes with it not being on. You could also see it in the obvious indecisiveness at goal kicks and set pieces. The best example of it is we start trying to play football around the 15 minute mark and actually look pretty decent, we are playing it short from the goal kick and look like we can get a foothold into the game. Come the 25 minute mark Cashin makes an error and all that trying to play out just stops. It's this in particular what frustrates me because it clearly showed that we could try to play our game if we had the faith to keep going in spite of mistakes. I don't think it's surprising the amount of unenforced errors we were making given that particular mindset. 

Honestly with how easily we were giving the ball up, and how iffy we looked positionally in deep midfield areas (which I'll get to) if I didn't know the score line I would have guessed we get battered in the second half.  

Some will say 'Sheff utd are good team we had to play this way' but for me that misses the point. Regardless of opposition that's a bad performance, they didn't force us to punt it as often as we did to a striker who's not going to win it and with a midfield that's less likely to win the ball back than previous weeks. I don't know how much is laid to blame tactically, how much is the mindset they've been going out there with (this isn't the first time under Warne we've looked terrified against a 'better' side) and how much is players getting the jitters. I suspect it's a combination of the 3. If we'd have played like we did in the first half against Cardiff and gone in 2-0 down here I'd have been happier. (In part because I think we only didn't go in a few down here was good last man defending and a bit of luck). 

Midfield clearly needs addressing, this had the same problems that were on show in the second half versus Cardiff with that same kind of nervy energy and inability to build cohesion. It's harsh to lay the blame at Osborn's door but he's clearly not suited to play as a DM and isn't comfortable being the player play is channelled through in build up. I think this is especially true when you have to carry Adams in midfield when you are in possession. Maybe this is unavoidable without a suitable replacement for Ozoh but I can't shake the feeling more could be done. 

The other thing is I don't understand switching around the wingers positionally or where Adams and Goudmijn were positionally. Little connections and relationships had been building up and showed to be fruitful and this got disrupted.

One frustrating element is that every team we play against seems to be able to head the ball to their own players.

Every header we have seems to go to an opponent. So the opposition can launch the ball to our defence in the knowledge they will pick up the ball in midfield.

If we could work on that we would have more possession.

[angieram]

Sorry, I rather seem to have hijacked the matchday thread, which I didn't mean to. 

Just to say the matter of away fans' behaviour has been raised at numerous SCG meetings and we always get the same answer - choose where you sit. Sit? They're having a laugh! 

I have always supported safe standing and singing sections (mainly so I can avoid them!) but there will always be people who insist on standing where they want, doing what they want. Police and stewards film them but only from the safety of the pitch. They need to get in amongst it, but they won't. 

I'll shut up now and let you get back to the football. I can't add much to that as I happened to be "sat" behind two 6'6" guys on Saturday so saw very little of the game. 

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

Sorry, I rather seem to have hijacked the matchday thread, which I didn't mean to. 

Just to say the matter of away fans' behaviour has been raised at numerous SCG meetings and we always get the same answer - choose where you sit. Sit? They're having a laugh! 

I have always supported safe standing and singing sections (mainly so I can avoid them!) but there will always be people who insist on standing where they want, doing what they want. Police and stewards film them but only from the safety of the pitch. They need to get in amongst it, but they won't. 

I'll shut up now and let you get back to the football. I can't add much to that as I happened to be "sat" behind two 6'6" guys on Saturday so saw very little of the game. 

Agree. My main gripe has been fans standing when my nipper was little and he couldn’t see and more recently fans standing in front of my dad who is 87 and can’t stand. Waste of time him going now.

[MadAmster]

Their goal. First of all, was it even a free kick? Hamer's foot comes down on top of Ossie's foot, which is on the floor. 

JWZ. IMO, he was stood where he should be for that free kick. Taken from Hamer's view, the keeper should cover the left hand 3/4 of the goal, the wall the other 1/4. Should we have had 4 in the wall? I would say, yes. Should the outside man in the wall be all 5' 9" of Ossie? I'd say, no. Well taken kick by Hamer which went in off the right hand post about 18 inches under the bar. Would it have gone in if Ossie had jumped? No it wouldn't.

1. Whose decision was it to have 3 in the wall?

2. Whose decision was it for Ossie not to jump?

[Leeds Ram]

On the issue of the away fans I'm not really sure much of this can be policed at all. Moaning about people chucking beer in the concourse, or it being overly full as people are singing good and bad chants is fine but the club can't be expected to do anything about that realistically. I wouldn't want them to be doing anything about it either if I'm totally honest as it's not their place to criminalise or regulate that kind of behaviour. Same with the chants about Sharp, yes they're oafish and offensive but they're not criminal and I don't think they should be either. 

Standing is a different matter. It strikes me as obvious that clubs should have a large section for safe standing and a section with seating for those who don't wish/cannot stand. That way if people stood in the seating areas you could have a 3 strike policy before a season's ban was put in place. That seems easy to police and a real effective action can occur as a consequence of poor behaviour. 

I go semi-regularly to away games and have only been to Blackburn so far this year but that was a perfectly lovely trip. I didn't have a problem with where I was and it was all good. Then again, at Peterborough in the past or other trips I've seen the oafish elements who are plain rude, obnoxious, and probably not interested in the football at all. As my partner has ASD, I carefully regulate which games she goes to as over the years I've got a sense of when issues will emerge. So, I choose grounds with large concourses, multiple exit routes, and places where we won't have to take a packed train full of yobs with the emotional consideration of a damp sponge. 

Unfortunately, football like any other hobby will attract an element of this crowd, with its emphasis on drink and away days maybe it will be a disproportionate number. Apart from the club regularly trying to cultivate a more welcoming fan culture I'm not sure what they could really do about this though. With most of this crowd (unfortunately, I know a couple of people from my old school who are part of this) a show of real force does work. I've seen it on the train when they push and push police until they get the handcuffs and notebook out they suddenly start pleading and behave themselves. It's all a bit pathetic and I had a little chuckle to myself. So maybe if the police/stewards did kick out a couple for misbehaving that would affect some of the mob. But again, if it's merely for rude/inconsiderate behaviour I'm not sure I'd want that kind of policing in the first place. 

[Jimbo Ram]

11 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

On the issue of the away fans I'm not really sure much of this can be policed at all. Moaning about people chucking beer in the concourse, or it being overly full as people are singing good and bad chants is fine but the club can't be expected to do anything about that realistically. I wouldn't want them to be doing anything about it either if I'm totally honest as it's not their place to criminalise or regulate that kind of behaviour. Same with the chants about Sharp, yes they're oafish and offensive but they're not criminal and I don't think they should be either. 

Standing is a different matter. It strikes me as obvious that clubs should have a large section for safe standing and a section with seating for those who don't wish/cannot stand. That way if people stood in the seating areas you could have a 3 strike policy before a season's ban was put in place. That seems easy to police and a real effective action can occur as a consequence of poor behaviour. 

I go semi-regularly to away games and have only been to Blackburn so far this year but that was a perfectly lovely trip. I didn't have a problem with where I was and it was all good. Then again, at Peterborough in the past or other trips I've seen the oafish elements who are plain rude, obnoxious, and probably not interested in the football at all. As my partner has ASD, I carefully regulate which games she goes to as over the years I've got a sense of when issues will emerge. So, I choose grounds with large concourses, multiple exit routes, and places where we won't have to take a packed train full of yobs with the emotional consideration of a damp sponge. 

Unfortunately, football like any other hobby will attract an element of this crowd, with its emphasis on drink and away days maybe it will be a disproportionate number. Apart from the club regularly trying to cultivate a more welcoming fan culture I'm not sure what they could really do about this though. With most of this crowd (unfortunately, I know a couple of people from my old school who are part of this) a show of real force does work. I've seen it on the train when they push and push police until they get the handcuffs and notebook out they suddenly start pleading and behave themselves. It's all a bit pathetic and I had a little chuckle to myself. So maybe if the police/stewards did kick out a couple for misbehaving that would affect some of the mob. But again, if it's merely for rude/inconsiderate behaviour I'm not sure I'd want that kind of policing in the first place. 

I think shouting aggressively at someone and calling them a paedophile should be a criminal offence….might make the morons think twice about chanting it. I think that is beyond rude and no other employee would  have to tolerate it.

[Ram@Lincoln]

41 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think shouting aggressively at someone and calling them a paedophile should be a criminal offence….might make the morons think twice about chanting it. I think that is beyond rude and no other employee would  have to tolerate it.

Even more so when Sharp is on his third club since leaving the club that the morons are chanting it at. It all started many years ago when drunken idiots got Ched Evans and Billy Sharp confused. Note that no other clubs have this problem against Sharp as he's specifically mentioned in numerous interviews about the abuse he gets from Derby, some sadly targeting his passed child. It's purely repulsive.

[Anag Ram]

There must be cameras on the crowd at games. It wouldn’t take long for stewards to subsequently point out those who have been abusive (and I mean overly aggressive or illegal) ?

We have to protect ourselves against this hooligan element. 

I think the police have a role to play too. They need to have a word with those who are clearly intoxicated to point out they could be refused entry or ejected if they misbehave.

 

[TINMANTED]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

Their goal. First of all, was it even a free kick? Hamer's foot comes down on top of Ossie's foot, which is on the floor. 

JWZ. IMO, he was stood where he should be for that free kick. Taken from Hamer's view, the keeper should cover the left hand 3/4 of the goal, the wall the other 1/4. Should we have had 4 in the wall? I would say, yes. Should the outside man in the wall be all 5' 9" of Ossie? I'd say, no. Well taken kick by Hamer which went in off the right hand post about 18 inches under the bar. Would it have gone in if Ossie had jumped? No it wouldn't.

1. Whose decision was it to have 3 in the wall?

2. Whose decision was it for Ossie not to jump?

In stroms defence,his view was seriously obstructed when setting up the wall by a united player jumping up and down in front of him,obviously a tactic employed by them on free kicks

[old tray boy]

Drink and drugs have no place at a football match .A pint or two before the match has always been acceptable but gallons with the added mix of drugs is a bad combination.lt is up to the club to sort it out either by putting a Police presence amongst the section of idiots or warning if found under the influence you will be banned for life because idiots like you are spoiling the experience for people around you.We live in a Country that daily lurches towards a repressive Police state but drugs have no place in sport they sre the go to place for weak minded individuals who if not for the bravado drugs give them would be sitting in there bedrooms playing video games.

[Malagaram]

What is the answer,more police and stewards monitoring,a few stewards carrying cameras,surely with face recognition available,and it works when you see the number of thugs arrested after the street riots that we saw recently,then the thugs who are causing problems can be dealt with.I feel sorry for Angie,families,elderly supporters who are being abused,and are now fearful of attending matches,ACTION IS REQUIRED NOW !

[brady1993]

5 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

One frustrating element is that every team we play against seems to be able to head the ball to their own players.

Every header we have seems to go to an opponent. So the opposition can launch the ball to our defence in the knowledge they will pick up the ball in midfield.

If we could work on that we would have more possession.

As in from defensive headers on our part ? 

I've not particularly seen that as a problem if I'm honest mostly. I think that we deal with for the most part. 

I think it's when we go long that's the bigger issue as we almost always lose the ball when we do. (I'm not including balls to run onto here. It's obvious as to why but it's not as obvious as to why we want to do it at times because at times we are doing when it feels completely unnecessary. And we've showed that we can play our way out. 

[Anag Ram]

3 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Their goal. First of all, was it even a free kick? Hamer's foot comes down on top of Ossie's foot, which is on the floor. 

JWZ. IMO, he was stood where he should be for that free kick. Taken from Hamer's view, the keeper should cover the left hand 3/4 of the goal, the wall the other 1/4. Should we have had 4 in the wall? I would say, yes. Should the outside man in the wall be all 5' 9" of Ossie? I'd say, no. Well taken kick by Hamer which went in off the right hand post about 18 inches under the bar. Would it have gone in if Ossie had jumped? No it wouldn't.

1. Whose decision was it to have 3 in the wall?

2. Whose decision was it for Ossie not to jump?

I think it’s worth pointing out that Burrows as a left footer was also lined up to take it. 
You’d need a six man wall to cover both options. 
I think we have to accept that Hamer put it in exactly the right area and JWZ couldn’t get to it. 
The ball curled from outside the wall and snuck in.

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

As in from defensive headers on our part ? 

I've not particularly seen that as a problem if I'm honest mostly. I think that we deal with for the most part. 

I think it's when we go long that's the bigger issue as we almost always lose the ball when we do. (I'm not including balls to run onto here. It's obvious as to why but it's not as obvious as to why we want to do it at times because at times we are doing when it feels completely unnecessary. And we've showed that we can play our way out. 

Yes, our defenders try only for distance. Their headers go over our midfield and straight to theirs.