eddielewis Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 As this thread is talking about the hope for further investment in the club for it progress on the pitch I must say we seem to be blindsided to the current situation at most Premier League clubs where the owners are currently waging a war on the fans by massively increasing season ticket prices and getting rid of concession tickets for very minimal financial gain. My worry is that the hope for some Scrooge McDuck to invest or even purchase the club in the future doesn't come at the expense of the fans. Adslegend, Reggie Greenwood, Kathcairns and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 5 minutes ago, eddielewis said: As this thread is talking about the hope for further investment in the club for it progress on the pitch I must say we seem to be blindsided to the current situation at most Premier League clubs where the owners are currently waging a war on the fans by massively increasing season ticket prices and getting rid of concession tickets for very minimal financial gain. My worry is that the hope for some Scrooge McDuck to invest or even purchase the club in the future doesn't come at the expense of the fans. I think a lot of that is a byproduct of FFP/P&S rules. Basically the higher a club's turnover, the more they can spend on players. Even if owners want to put in equity, most of it doesn't count towards the calculations, so there is pressure to squeeze more out of the fans. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddielewis Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 minute ago, CornwallRam said: I think a lot of that is a byproduct of FFP/P&S rules. Basically the higher a club's turnover, the more they can spend on players. Even if owners want to put in equity, most of it doesn't count towards the calculations, so there is pressure to squeeze more out of the fans. So with Fulham for example increasing adult/senior season ticket prices over the past 3 seasons by 30% and Junior season tickets by 150% when only gate receipts contributed to a measly 8% of their biggest turnover is mainly to with FFP?. It's greed pure and simple. It's the equivalent of them finishing 14th compared to 15th in the Prem. No club in the Premier League is worried about the ability to sign players based on how many fans turn up but what they fail to realise the case with covid (no fans) the product was/is terrible without an atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 6 minutes ago, eddielewis said: ...No club in the Premier League is worried about the ability to sign players based on how many fans turn up but what they fail to realise the case with covid (no fans) the product was/is terrible without an atmosphere. How many Prem clubs have 'empty' stadiums, I don't know? Football has always involved lots of money, sport does. How is it right that some clubs can spend so much more than others even if someone wanted to bankroll a club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic56 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 33 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: I think a lot of that is a byproduct of FFP/P&S rules. Basically the higher a club's turnover, the more they can spend on players. Even if owners want to put in equity, most of it doesn't count towards the calculations, so there is pressure to squeeze more out of the fans. Ipswich are a very interesting club . Like Florists , they have spent all their promotion money on players to get a foothold in the Prem . Burnley went up with over 100 pts , spent big and still failed . Being a football fan requires nerves of steel . David Graham Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said: Ipswich are a very interesting club . Like Florists , they have spent all their promotion money on players to get a foothold in the Prem . Burnley went up with over 100 pts , spent big and still failed . Being a football fan requires nerves of steel. How much do they cost? 😉 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wignall12 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: How much do they cost? 😉 😄 Sorry Roy, we're under embargo judging by a lot of posters on here ! 😂 jimtastic56, Comrade 86, David Graham Brown and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trappatoni Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Ticket prices do seem to be on the rise again - we've seen it at Derby too. Not sure how much I'd pay for my season ticket - certainly not over £500 in this division. I am expecting to be priced out of live football at some point unless some kind of regulation is brought in. What age do pensioners' concessions come in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 4 hours ago, CBRammette said: Surely risk not entirely dependent on him deciding to pull plug - lots of potential changes in circumstances to him could make life difficult for club. Fair point, that he is unlikely to walk away voluntarily doesn't detract from the huge exposure they have. CBRammette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 minute ago, Mihangel said: Fair point, that he is unlikely to walk away voluntarily doesn't detract from the huge exposure they have. How much are they worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: How much are they worth? Search me! but for him to make a return they need to be sold for somewhere around £600m - As I said earlier, that isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 19 minutes ago, Mihangel said: Search me! but for him to make a return they need to be sold for somewhere around £600m - As I said earlier, that isn't happening. How do you know how much he's 'taken out' so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 12 hours ago, Ambitious said: Are we really discussing the merits of Tony Bloom’s ownership of Brighton? By every metric he’s arguably the most successful football owner this country has ever seen. He’s took what many considered to be a non-entity in the football league and made them one of the most fashionable, established clubs in the Premier League. Of course, it costs money but what he’s invested personally, which includes £100m for the stadium, but he will have offset significantly based on the current value of Brighton. If he went to sell them now he would probably get close to £600m. They probably have over £200m worth in intangible assets, if not more. Ignoring all of that anyway, he’s been brilliant for English football. Brighton has been an excellent club for developing talent in the past decade, the investment he’s put in has enriched the game in this country. He’s a pioneer in many ways. He’s a brilliant owner. No we’re not, my point is and has been from the start that Brighton football club are totally dependent on one man, without him and his £500 million input they are not a viable business. They have the fourth highest debt in the Premier League. The Scarlet Pimpernel and Mihangel 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfit Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 46 minutes ago, Foreveram said: No we’re not, my point is and has been from the start that Brighton football club are totally dependent on one man, without him and his £500 million input they are not a viable business. They have the fourth highest debt in the Premier League. What’s the definition of a viable business? Apple have over 100 billion in long term debt. Without investment some the world’s largest companies would not be where they are today, RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 6 minutes ago, superfit said: What’s the definition of a viable business? Apple have over 100 billion in long term debt. Without investment some the world’s largest companies would not be where they are today, It's not a problem when their debt is a fraction of their value (like Apple) but in the commercial world a level of debt that is greater than the company value is a ticking time bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfit Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 13 minutes ago, Crewton said: It's not a problem when their debt is a fraction of their value (like Apple) but in the commercial world a level of debt that is greater than the company value is a ticking time bomb. Apples debt is 31% of its value even though it has billions in cash in the bank it carries a large debt in order to offset against tax but that wasn’t really my point. In the early days the business was highly leveraged and of course in the 90s it nearly went bust but the point is and circling back to Blooms investment in Brighton football is big business and requires serious investment and the current loans outstanding to Bloom are estimated to be around 40% of the clubs capital valuation so it’s completely sustainable. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 9 hours ago, Foreveram said: No we’re not, my point is and has been from the start that Brighton football club are totally dependent on one man, without him and his £500 million input they are not a viable business. They have the fourth highest debt in the Premier League. That's the long and short of it. They came us kind of a role model (with Brentford) of how Derby could succeed but the reality is he and Mel Morris both gambled, Morris' Derby failed before he backed out, Bloom's Brighton didn't. Morris over did it, of course but Bloom's was just as big a gamble. He's done brilliantly but that's not the point, the question is do we want to go down that route? Foreveram, Dordogne-Ram and angieram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 10 hours ago, superfit said: Apples debt is 31% of its value even though it has billions in cash in the bank it carries a large debt in order to offset against tax but that wasn’t really my point. In the early days the business was highly leveraged and of course in the 90s it nearly went bust but the point is and circling back to Blooms investment in Brighton football is big business and requires serious investment and the current loans outstanding to Bloom are estimated to be around 40% of the clubs capital valuation so it’s completely sustainable. How do you know what Brighton's capital value is? They aren't publicly quoted, their profits are variable and unpredictable and there is no reliable multiple you can use to set a value for the club. If Brighton were relegated, theoretically at least, that debt, in conventional commercial terms, would put them below the waterline? You certainly can't compare football club valuations with tech companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic56 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Amanda Staveley ( Ex Newcastle) wants a 25% stake in Spurs . Valued at £2.4 Billion , the shares will cost her £600 million . We could ask - why don’t she want a Derby County for £50 mill and just turn them into a New Spurs ? Doesn’t make sense to us , but then we are not £Billionaires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 52 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said: Amanda Staveley ( Ex Newcastle) wants a 25% stake in Spurs . Valued at £2.4 Billion , the shares will cost her £600 million . We could ask - why don’t she want a Derby County for £50 mill and just turn them into a New Spurs ? Doesn’t make sense to us , but then we are not £Billionaires. London. How many times would the Spurs stadium be used for tournaments that are shown globally? Pride Park was overlooked for globally iconic stadiums that needed massive rebuilds, like Plymouth and Milton Keynes, in a recent world Cup bid. Crewton and angieram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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