Tamworthram Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 19 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: You can dress it up however you like Tamworth but to me it seems that we are bombing Yemen to protect commerce/trade whilst allowing the massacre of civilians next door. Fcked up world mate. I think you’re the one dressing it up to be honest. I think there is a reasonable case for protecting the free passage of vessels in international waters. I don’t support the excessive force used by Israel but neither do I support the blackmailing tactics employed by the rebels. In some ways, whilst I don’t profess to be anywhere near knowledgeable on the subject, I wonder if the rebels are just as much victims as the innocent people of Gaza. Are they just being used by Iran in the same way the innocent people of Gaza are being used by Hamas? The world certainly is fcked up and there seem to be plenty of villains (on all sides) but very few heroes. 😢 cstand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 43 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: After the past few months of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict dominating our news, the US and UK launching direct attacks on Houthi targets seems like noise - but I have a horrible feeling that this is the next level in the escalation of violence/war Houthi are backed by Iran and being paid to disrupt Israeli shipping. If we're directly attacking the foes of Israel for them - then we're well and truly in this war 😔 It's about a bit more than them trying to "disrupt Israeli shipping" - it's thought that a third of the shipping that would normally use the Suez canal is rerouting because of the repeated attacks. They also launched a drone attack on a Royal Navy ship which was always likely to cause a reprisal..... Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 26 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: You can dress it up however you like Tamworth but to me it seems that we are bombing Yemen to protect commerce/trade whilst allowing the massacre of civilians next door. Fcked up world mate. Exactly. These are the priorities of the governments that represent us, clearly laid out in front of our eyes; 23,000 dead Palestinians, mostly women and children, ah, that's not a problem, but mess with our shipping lanes you get the aircraft carriers and fighter planes, the bombing raids, the whole f****** 9 yards. Alph, ramit, uttoxram75 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Slaughtering civilians is not as important as disrupting trade is possibly not the greatest argument to make. Like I said, fcked up world. Ram-Alf, Stive Pesley and Alph 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, Gaspode said: It's about a bit more than them trying to "disrupt Israeli shipping" - it's thought that a third of the shipping that would normally use the Suez canal is rerouting because of the repeated attacks. They also launched a drone attack on a Royal Navy ship which was always likely to cause a reprisal..... Agreed but if you jab a tiger repeatedly, it will eventually bite you. Is the Arab world going to simply sit by while Israel raises Gaza and ignores the sovereignty of Arab states by conducting assassinations on their soil? Where does it all end if all parties simply escalate hostilities. There will be a price to pay for all this. Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 27 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I don’t support the excessive force used by Israel but neither do I support the blackmailing tactics employed by the rebels. I wonder if the rebels are just as much victims as the innocent people of Gaza. Are they just being used by Iran in the same way the innocent people of Gaza are being used by Hamas? The world certainly is fcked up and there seem to be plenty of villains (on all sides) but very few heroes. 😢 "Excessive force"? It's a bit more than that. South Africa are doing a wonderful job right now of using Israeli government quotes compiled together to show exactly the mindset of IDF since day 1. It won't count for much I don't think but at the very least it will expose Israel to the public so there can be no more spreading of propaganda used by this Apartheid State. This isn't excessive force. This is ethnic cleansing. I wouldn't say the people of Gaza are being used by Hamas. This is another lie spread by Israel/America/Britain to give the impression Palestinians are being held hostage/human shields and so therefore the destruction of Hamas can only be a good thing. Like Biden said in 86. If Israel didn't exist then America would have to create one. If Hamas didn't exist then Israel would have to create another. Or one way or another a Hamas would form. Even if Israel succeed in their pretend mission then Hamas will be born again. Israel need Hamas. Again, this isn't a claim. This is something said by Netenyahu and Co both verbally and by action. It keeps him in power, it keeps them able to raid and build settlements. Support for Hamas was slipping. But there was still strong support for them. Because what happens without them? All Palestinians live in a liberal, democratic free state of Israel? The idea that Hamas brought Israel down upon Palestinians is what Israel would have us believe. Israel brought Israel down upon Palestinians. And they do it where Hamas has little to no power. Hamas might have support from the likes of Iran etc. but Palestinians do the fighting. And today there will be dozens more who will be willing to join groups like Hamas. Or an even more extreme group should Hamas actually be destroyed. Highgate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 52 minutes ago, Alph said: "Excessive force"? It's a bit more than that. South Africa are doing a wonderful job right now of using Israeli government quotes compiled together to show exactly the mindset of IDF since day 1. It won't count for much I don't think but at the very least it will expose Israel to the public so there can be no more spreading of propaganda used by this Apartheid State. This isn't excessive force. This is ethnic cleansing. I wouldn't say the people of Gaza are being used by Hamas. This is another lie spread by Israel/America/Britain to give the impression Palestinians are being held hostage/human shields and so therefore the destruction of Hamas can only be a good thing. Like Biden said in 86. If Israel didn't exist then America would have to create one. If Hamas didn't exist then Israel would have to create another. Or one way or another a Hamas would form. Even if Israel succeed in their pretend mission then Hamas will be born again. Israel need Hamas. Again, this isn't a claim. This is something said by Netenyahu and Co both verbally and by action. It keeps him in power, it keeps them able to raid and build settlements. Support for Hamas was slipping. But there was still strong support for them. Because what happens without them? All Palestinians live in a liberal, democratic free state of Israel? The idea that Hamas brought Israel down upon Palestinians is what Israel would have us believe. Israel brought Israel down upon Palestinians. And they do it where Hamas has little to no power. Hamas might have support from the likes of Iran etc. but Palestinians do the fighting. And today there will be dozens more who will be willing to join groups like Hamas. Or an even more extreme group should Hamas actually be destroyed. OK, so “excessive force” is a serious understatement but there’s no need to round on me. I think you know what I meant. If not, I’ll make it clearer. I don’t approve of what Israel are trying to do or the way they are going about it. I find it abhorrent. It’s a horrible situation that those of us in the west can’t really begin to appreciate. The equally distressing thing is, it’s almost impossible to imagine a solution that will be acceptable to both sides. 😢 Alph and Highgate 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: there’s no need to round on me. I didn't mean to come across like that Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, Gaspode said: It's about a bit more than them trying to "disrupt Israeli shipping" - it's thought that a third of the shipping that would normally use the Suez canal is rerouting because of the repeated attacks. They also launched a drone attack on a Royal Navy ship which was always likely to cause a reprisal..... Yes - I was trying to simplify the matter down to the basics, that the Houthis are being paid by Iran to cause chaos in the shipping lanes An interesting article here - not saying I agree with all of it, but some good background https://unherd.com/thepost/war-with-iran-would-be-a-grave-error/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 And still it goes on. Great to see Cameron sabre-rattling too. What a time to be alive, eh! Highgate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 (edited) When Cameron was asked if Gaza is Occupied he said he would have to seek legal advice before answering. When Sunak was asked if he's been advised by his lawyers if Israel are committing war crimes he said the government never reveal advice from lawyers. And that Britain has continuously called for Israel to show restraint. When asked if he agrees with Biden saying "indiscriminate bombing", Sunak said Hamas hides amongst the population. When Cameron was asked if Hamas will be destroyed he said no. When asked at what point will Britain vote for a ceasefire he said when Hamas have no capabilities to attack Israel from Gaza. When will we know that this is achieved? He doesn't answer. He simply says Hamas could end the conflict today by surrendering. But... er... surrendering what? Occupied Land? You need your lawyer again David. Or to backtrack and say Gaza isn't Occupied Palestinian Territory. "It's complex" they say. Well, not really. It's complex if your argument is for ethnic cleansing, Apartheid State terrorism, breaches of international law and opposing the UN, ICJ and Human Rights groups. I imagine that's tricky. Especially for unelected leaders. But to say stop the killing? Pretty easy. To negotiate with Hamas? Much easier than killing children I'd have thought. But hey, politicians don't have to face consequences. Might get a bit of a rollicking off Ian Hislop but give it 10 years then release a book. Go on I'm A Celeb. Edited January 15 by Alph Stive Pesley and ariotofmyown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Two long-term regional sponsors of terrorism now exchanging "precision attacks" on each others terrorists in the other's countries. What could possibly go wrong? No idea what or who prompted Iran to start this particular Shia v Sunni conflict, but it seems like a death-wish has taken hold of the IR regime and appears a crazy move even for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, Crewton said: Two long-term regional sponsors of terrorism now exchanging "precision attacks" on each others terrorists in the other's countries. What could possibly go wrong? No idea what or who prompted Iran to start this particular Shia v Sunni conflict, but it seems like a death-wish has taken hold of the IR regime and appears a crazy move even for them. With one being a nuclear power... Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Crewton said: Two long-term regional sponsors of terrorism now exchanging "precision attacks" on each others terrorists in the other's countries. What could possibly go wrong? No idea what or who prompted Iran to start this particular Shia v Sunni conflict, but it seems like a death-wish has taken hold of the IR regime and appears a crazy move even for them. Our coaltion is getting interesting. Israel, UK, US, Isis, Pakistan. Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) Hey up! Welcome back to the thread those of you who stormed off claiming the moral high ground. Good to have you back. This is still "my thread" though and I'm still full of hate filled rants against Occupation, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, genocidal intent so I'm not sure it's safe to provide context around Israel's actions or pretend the only sponsor of terrorism in the region are two Muslim countries without being challenged. Good to see some mockery of "precision attacks" finally!! There's a lot of those in the region. Maybe someone could give us context around these ones? I'm one of those hate filled guys who condemns all attacks on civilians so I don't fancy it. If only there was some way escalation could have been avoided in the last few months. Edited January 18 by Alph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 25 minutes ago, Alph said: If only there was some way escalation could have been avoided in the last few months Well, there was, and you know it, even if you believe that was "understandable retaliation". Nihilistic actions driven by nihilistic beliefs leave very little room for measured responses and just play into the hands of the hawkish. Your own frequently intemperate language doesn't bring anyone to the negotiating table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: Our coaltion is getting interesting. Israel, UK, US, Isis, Pakistan. You forgot to include the female population of Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Crewton said: You forgot to include the female population of Iran. Good point, they'll be pleased to be on the same side as Isis. Edited January 18 by ariotofmyown Just seen strikes by Jordan in Syria. No idea which side is which there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Crewton said: Well, there was, and you know it, even if you believe that was "understandable retaliation". Nihilistic actions driven by nihilistic beliefs leave very little room for measured responses and just play into the hands of the hawkish. Your own frequently intemperate language doesn't bring anyone to the negotiating table. Good to have you back. Missed your context in these last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Crewton said: You forgot to include the female population of Iran. States that don't have equal rights for their population. It's disgusting and I'm glad you've spoken against oppression. We're finally find common ground again. Imagine that, an anti war antagonist like me who speaks against illegal occupation and Apartheid. You'll be calling Israel and their weapons suppliers antagonists at this rate. If you do I'll storm out. Claim you can't be reasonable. It'll be fun ramit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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