Ocean Temperature (strictly apolitical)

[Archied]

16 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Is it much better to let off steam on a football forum whilst having your pockets and quality of life rinsed?

Asking for a friend 😂

I was taking your post seriously until your claim of having a friend 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited September 15, 2023 by Archied

[MaltRam]

http://BBC News - Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66724246 

[Stive Pesley]

A sign of quite how messed up the world is when the devastation in Acapulco barely made it into my newsfeed and I've only just read about what happened now, a week later.

Rising ocean temperatures led to what they believed to be an imminent tropical storm to rapidly intensify in wind speed at an unprecedented rate within a matter of hours, leaving no time to evacuate or take precaution. Suddenly they were just being hit by 165mph winds

I know that some will yet again dismiss it as "fear mongering" but this actually happened and the science points to it happening again and again as ocean temperatures increase

[Mostyn6]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

A sign of quite how messed up the world is when the devastation in Acapulco barely made it into my newsfeed and I've only just read about what happened now, a week later.

Rising ocean temperatures led to what they believed to be an imminent tropical storm to rapidly intensify in wind speed at an unprecedented rate within a matter of hours, leaving no time to evacuate or take precaution. Suddenly they were just being hit by 165mph winds

I know that some will yet again dismiss it as "fear mongering" but this actually happened and the science points to it happening again and again as ocean temperatures increase

looking whats happening on the south coast of England today too, it's worrying, however it's not a new thing, just rare. I'd normally joke about some evil villain controlling the weather machine, but I think we are in for a few more challenging weather days in UK in the next few weeks.

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

A sign of quite how messed up the world is when the devastation in Acapulco barely made it into my newsfeed and I've only just read about what happened now, a week later.

Rising ocean temperatures led to what they believed to be an imminent tropical storm to rapidly intensify in wind speed at an unprecedented rate within a matter of hours, leaving no time to evacuate or take precaution. Suddenly they were just being hit by 165mph winds

I know that some will yet again dismiss it as "fear mongering" but this actually happened and the science points to it happening again and again as ocean temperatures increase

We had a hurricane in Baja just a few days before. Some are still without power, 12 days on.

[Highgate]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67861954

Confirming the inevitable really.. 

 

[Archied]

On 09/01/2024 at 14:26, Highgate said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67861954

Confirming the inevitable really.. 

 

Setting aside the issue of whether and how much climate CHANGE is driven by humans , are there any positives to temperature raising slightly as opposed to falling towards another ice age ( the previous apocalyptic prediction ) ?
cold kills far far more people worldwide than heat , as areas become less suitable to live in and grow food do others not become more suitable?

how much effort and investment is being put in to deal with issues in our changing world ? 
we build on flood plains , we put down drives and patios , we don’t dredge rivers or look at measures for flood defence ( this country ) ,

seem s to me we just see government throwing out climate change excuse to further forced consumerism rather than put plans and proper money in place to help and improve the lives of ordinary folk in affected areas 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

we don’t dredge rivers or look at measures for flood defence (this country)

In Derby there has been a massive "Our City Our River" project going on for around 10 years which has been been protecting as much of the housing in the city centre areas as it can. Huge flood walls on and around Darley Park, huge pumping stations in the River Gardens and Bass's Rec, manufactured floodplains, flow diversions etc

 

[Mucker1884]

20 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

In Derby there has been a massive "Our City Our River" project going on for around 10 years which has been been protecting as much of the housing in the city centre areas as it can. Huge flood walls on and around Darley Park, huge pumping stations in the River Gardens and Bass's Rec, manufactured floodplains, flow diversions etc

 

Whish is fantastic for us (Sarcasm alert!) as now they have all these walls and close-able gates to protect the Council House(!), we are now on the very edge... but within... the red flood risk area, which effectively runs from Darley Park, across Chester Green, Racecourse, over Beaufort St, and passing through our garden/house to the white lines down the middle of our street.  Houses opposite us are outside the risk zone. 🙄

We had personal flood warning texts/emails the other week (November was it, when the Pentagon etc got flooded?)... and it affects our home insurance premiums.

Fortunately, I don't ever recall even the Racecourse being flooded, let alone our back garden.  So fingers remain firmly crossed!
(Any local street "flooding" is clearly down to lack of drain clearing, I'd say.  Certainly not direct overflow from the river!)

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Setting aside the issue of whether and how much climate CHANGE is driven by humans , are there any positives to temperature raising slightly as opposed to falling towards another ice age ( the previous apocalyptic prediction ) ?
cold kills far far more people worldwide than heat , as areas become less suitable to live in and grow food do others not become more suitable?

They changed the term global warming to climate change, because temperatures rising doesn’t necessarily mean the world gets hotter. The hotter parts get hotter, but the colder parts get colder. The ice caps melt, releasing more cold water into the oceans and reducing the temperature of the oceans, which screws up things like the Gulf Stream and other weather patterns. So our reasonably temperate weather will become more and more extreme, not to mention the rising sea levels making coastal regions uninhabitable.

So it’s not quite as simple as ‘people who live in the Sahara can go move to the north pole’. Basically only the tropics will become habitable. 

Local flooding is more a local council issue to deal with. But global climate change is the root cause, and needs to be dealt with by collaborating governments. Which basically means it’ll never be dealt with, so we have to rely on local councils to fight fires (and floods) as they arise, and they will get worse and worse.

But there’s a reasonable argument to say that’s not a bad approach  the time for global collaboration and nipping this in the bud has past, so maybe the right answer now is to deal with each problem locally, as it arises. Some will fair better than others, but it’s basically every man / community for himself at this point. Welcome to the dystopia. 

Edited January 11 by TigerTedd

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whish is fantastic for us (Sarcasm alert!) as now they have all these walls and close-able gates to protect the Council House(!), we are now on the very edge... but within... the red flood risk area, which effectively runs from Darley Park, across Chester Green, Racecourse, over Beaufort St, and passing through our garden/house to the white lines down the middle of our street.  Houses opposite us are outside the risk zone. 🙄

We had personal flood warning texts/emails the other week (November was it, when the Pentagon etc got flooded?)... and it affects our home insurance premiums.

Fortunately, I don't ever recall even the Racecourse being flooded, let alone our back garden.  So fingers remain firmly crossed!
 

That sounds crap for you - one of the problems does seem to be that building flood defences upstream only means more chance of flooding downstream (hence the Pentagon hasn't flooded before to my knowledge, even when areas near it have). You'd like to think they think all this through via simulation/prediction technology but then again...

[Archied]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

They changed the term global warming to climate change, because temperatures rising doesn’t necessarily mean the world gets hotter. The hotter parts get hotter, but the colder parts get colder. The ice caps melt, releasing more cold water into the oceans and reducing the temperature of the oceans, which screws up things like the Gulf Stream and other weather patterns. So our reasonably temperate weather will become more and more extreme, not to mention the rising sea levels making coastal regions uninhabitable.

So it’s not quite as simple as ‘people who live in the Sahara can go move to the north pole’. Basically only the tropics will become habitable. 

Local flooding is more a local council issue to deal with. But global climate change is the root cause, and needs to be dealt with by collaborating governments. Which basically means it’ll never be dealt with, so we have to rely on local councils to fight fires (and floods) as they arise, and they will get worse and worse.

But there’s a reasonable argument to say that’s not a bad approach  the time for global collaboration and nipping this in the bud has past, so maybe the right answer now is to deal with each problem locally, as it arises. Some will fair better than others, but it’s basically every man / community for himself at this point. Welcome to the dystopia. 

Agree with some points , not others , 

my response was to a post claiming world hottest since records began which is clearly a claim far from beyond dispute 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Agree with some points , not others , 

my response was to a post claiming world hottest since records began which is clearly a claim far from beyond dispute 

Absolutely, but it all gets hotter, before it gets colder. I joke that I burn my fossil fuels and spray my cfcs, so why am I still freezing cold in January, Britain should be like the Caribbean now, and derby should have a sea view. We could be living in a tropical (if overcrowded) paradise. 

but that’s just a joke. That’s not how climate change works. Things will mostly get wetter and colder north of the tropics, and hotter and unliveable below the tropics.

but I genuinely think there’s no turning back now, this is life and we need to learn to deal with it. Find yourself a nice mountain top to build a house on. 

[Grumpy Git]

I'm astounded that no one kicks-up a fuss that a lot of local flooding is because the councils don't have the funds to clear gullies and ditches, (or to keep it apolitical don't choose to clear them).

Why spend a penny now when you can spend a quid later?

[Archied]

24 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Absolutely, but it all gets hotter, before it gets colder. I joke that I burn my fossil fuels and spray my cfcs, so why am I still freezing cold in January, Britain should be like the Caribbean now, and derby should have a sea view. We could be living in a tropical (if overcrowded) paradise. 

but that’s just a joke. That’s not how climate change works. Things will mostly get wetter and colder north of the tropics, and hotter and unliveable below the tropics.

but I genuinely think there’s no turning back now, this is life and we need to learn to deal with it. Find yourself a nice mountain top to build a house on. 

You are exactly what’s needed. Proper concern aligned with practical logical realist thinking ,

so so much of what’s out there now is just for the fairies lack of thought driven by apocalyptical messaging which frankly when the surface is scratched is just yet more growth growth growth waste dressed up as saving the planet,,

a group attacking big gas guzzling cars slashed the tyres of a Tesla the other day in the Bristol area 😂😂, you couldn’t make it up ,

long term thinking and action on being less polluting/ phasing out fossil fuels going hand in hand with planning to adjust how we live better in a changing world that I’m pretty sure is going to be changing no matter what we do is the way forward in my view

Edited January 11 by Archied

[Highgate]

8 hours ago, Archied said:

Setting aside the issue of whether and how much climate CHANGE is driven by humans , are there any positives to temperature raising slightly as opposed to falling towards another ice age ( the previous apocalyptic prediction ) ?
cold kills far far more people worldwide than heat , as areas become less suitable to live in and grow food do others not become more suitable?

how much effort and investment is being put in to deal with issues in our changing world ? 
we build on flood plains , we put down drives and patios , we don’t dredge rivers or look at measures for flood defence ( this country ) ,

seem s to me we just see government throwing out climate change excuse to further forced consumerism rather than put plans and proper money in place to help and improve the lives of ordinary folk in affected areas 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well, apart from the contributions made by the El Nino/La Nina cycle,(which warmed the planet last year, but will warm it even more this year) the judgement from the IPCC and the overwhelming consensus from climate scientists is that we are responsible for 100% of the warming since 1950. And remember that 90% of the warming we have created by greenhouse gas emission has been absorbed by the oceans so far.  I think you are mistaking some underlying very gradual climatic trends with this very rapid episode of human induced global warming. 

As for positive benefits...some tundra would become fertile agricultural land I suppose.  That's part of the reason why Putin is quite in favour of climate change, he believes much of Siberia will become much more productive.  However, such rapid redistribution of productive land and habitable areas, along with the coastal flooding would likely necessitate huge migrations of people. And you know how people feel about migrating populations. 

As for the rest of your post, yes governments have been making loads of mistakes and will continue to do so. And they are in favour of consumerism and will try to promote it in numerous ways.  That doesn't really have any bearing on how big a threat climate change is, and to be distracted by that is a big mistake in my opinion. It's not the governments who are warning us about global warming, it's the relevant qualified scientists who are telling us, and their mountains of data.  The governments have been trying to do as little about it as they possibly can for decades now, so ignore them when you are assessing the threat posed by climate change. That's my advice. 

Edited January 11 by Highgate

[Archied]

58 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Well, apart from the contributions made by the El Nino/La Nina cycle,(which warmed the planet last year, but will warm it even more this year) the judgement from the IPCC and the overwhelming consensus from climate scientists is that we are responsible for 100% of the warming since 1950. And remember that 90% of the warming we have created by greenhouse gas emission has been absorbed by the oceans so far.  I think you are mistaking some underlying very gradual climatic trends with this very rapid episode of human induced global warming. 

As for positive benefits...some tundra would become fertile agricultural land I suppose.  That's part of the reason why Putin is quite in favour of climate change, he believes much of Siberia will become much more productive.  However, such rapid redistribution of productive land and habitable areas, along with the coastal flooding would likely necessitate huge migrations of people. And you know how people feel about migrating populations. 

As for the rest of your post, yes governments have been making loads of mistakes and will continue to do so. And they are in favour of consumerism and will try to promote it in numerous ways.  That doesn't really have any bearing on how big a threat climate change is, and to be distracted by that is a big mistake in my opinion. It's not the governments who are warning us about global warming, it's the relevant qualified scientists who are telling us, and their mountains of data.  The governments have been trying to do as little about it as they possibly can for decades now, so ignore them when you are assessing the threat posed by climate change. That's my advice. 

We obviously disagree on many points , first and foremost what is put out from these reports is all too often not reflective of the full reports and there’s plenty of scientists / qualified people who disagree with what you call overwhelming consensus 😂, which actually means we have chosen which scientists to fund and publish and the overwhelming consensus with those is ect ect ect ,

[Highgate]

29 minutes ago, Archied said:

We obviously disagree on many points , first and foremost what is put out from these reports is all too often not reflective of the full reports and there’s plenty of scientists / qualified people who disagree with what you call overwhelming consensus 😂, which actually means we have chosen which scientists to fund and publish and the overwhelming consensus with those is ect ect ect ,

We obviously definitely disagree then, what you say in your post is absolutely and demonstrably false. 

IPCC reports, grave as they are, actually tend to under estimate the concerns of the scientists involved. They are political publications after all. 

https://skepticalscience.com/ipcc-scientific-consensus.htm

Your skepticism regarding whether there is a real consensus among climate scientists is not justifiable. I don't know what else to say about it. 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Highgate

[Archied]

18 minutes ago, Highgate said:

We obviously definitely disagree then, what you say in your post is absolutely and demonstrably false. 

IPCC reports, grave as they are, actually tend to under estimate the concerns of the scientists involved. They are political publications after all. 

https://skepticalscience.com/ipcc-scientific-consensus.htm

Your skepticism regarding whether there is a real consensus among climate scientists is not justifiable. I don't know what else to say about it. 

 

 

Nope , you have your opinion and no interest in anything else , your certainty is not justifiable ,

you keep pushing this scaremongering the worlds gonna end guff and I will keep pointing out there’s plenty ( growing larger all the time ) who see through this rubbish 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited January 11 by Archied

[Highgate]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

Nope , you have your opinion and no interest in anything else , your certainty is not justifiable ,

you keep pushing this scaremongering the worlds gonna end guff and I will keep pointing out there’s plenty ( growing larger all the time ) who see through this rubbish 🤷🏻‍♂️

I've never said the world's going to end due to climate change. I don't believe that to be the case. I don't even think global warming will be the end of humans. For me, it's not an extinction threat. 

But if you have some criticisms of things I've actually said, I'd be happy to address those.