Ocean Temperature (strictly apolitical)

[Archied]

51 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yup - not that there aren't other huge problems in the world, but to try and disassociate them from climate change, as if they aren't all linked is asinine in the extreme. Climate change is at the heart of it all. 

I'm sure we're already beyond the point where we can limit warming to 1.5, and as such is more about whether we bend or break - and how soon. Yes some of the reporting is alarmist, but then there is an awful lot that we should be alarmed about!

Give over all about climate change , it’s not even about oil , it’s about who controls oil it’s about who controls the means to power the world , will be the same old for the new green😂 industrial revolution

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yup - not that there aren't other huge problems in the world, but to try and disassociate them from climate change, as if they aren't all linked is asinine in the extreme. Climate change is at the heart of it all. 

I'm sure we're already beyond the point where we can limit warming to 1.5, and as such is more about whether we bend or break - and how soon. Yes some of the reporting is alarmist, but then there is an awful lot that we should be alarmed about!

As humans, we struggle with imagining how we'll feel about events in the medium to-distant future.  We tend to believe we'll be better equipped at some random future date than we are now, hence why so many people are poor at planning for retirement.

We also struggle with large concepts and abstract facts because they're not easy to represent in our minds.

Then you add in short-term self-interest, and it's no wonder so little has been done for so long. It's entirely predictable and understandable. 

[TigerTedd]

If fossil fuels are the life blood of the planet, that’s quite worrying, because they will run out one day, that is a fact.

We’ve experimented with having less human impact on a global scale. It was quite recently. It was called lockdown, you probably saw it in the news. It was shown that after month of global lockdown, the planet was already considerably better off. 

not that we should all go into permanent lock down, but I’m certainly all for the idea of instantly stopping any investment into oil, and investing that all into nuclear and renewable energy sources.

the only reason that won’t happen is because oil companies are too powerful. End of. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I’m not naive enough to believe that money doesn’t talk. They won’t be when the oil runs out. But by then it’s too late. 

the fact that we’re even considering making new coal mines and new coal powered power stations just boggles my mind.

put it this way, maybe we didn’t cause this, maybe it is all part of the earths cycle. But if you walk into a door and have a black eye, and it’s no one’s fault, it’s just the way things are, I wouldn’t make it better by punching you in the face repeatedly. I would make it better by ensuring that your face was protected and that nothing else could hit you in the eye, be that accidental doors, or on purpose punches. If I lived on your face, I would have a very vested interest in seeing that it’s protected. 

[Highgate]

10 hours ago, MaltRam said:

It is the single most significant threat to human civilisation in history, by a vast margin.

I'd rank it as the number 1 threat right now.

But looking back and considering how close we came to nuclear war, in 1962 and 1983 in particular, sends a chill down the spine. Single decisions by single individuals seem to have averted a full scale nuclear war between the 2 superpowers on two separate occasions. And who knows there may have been other occasions too.  So those were close calls for humanity to say the least.

Climate change is a much more difficult fix though, so there is that to consider also. Particularly when some people still don't even consider it to be a serious threat. 

[Eddie]

On 11/01/2024 at 20:15, Archied said:

Your constant bombardment of how grave things are re so called climate change and posting stuff like the above re 100% caused by humans since such and such date is the kind of messaging and tactic that sees so many people especially the young so filled with anxiety and fear that they are verging on mental and emotional instability, sorry but I’m always going to refute and give another viewpoint ,

you may come back and say these arnt your words but it’s no different to what they call re tweeting 

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

My Eddie they are just like the charts and graphics from covid day ,,, oh how I’ve missed them and you’ve managed to work in the words conspiracy theory too ,,,, it must be my birthday 🥰

[Archied]

15 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

If fossil fuels are the life blood of the planet, that’s quite worrying, because they will run out one day, that is a fact.

We’ve experimented with having less human impact on a global scale. It was quite recently. It was called lockdown, you probably saw it in the news. It was shown that after month of global lockdown, the planet was already considerably better off. 

not that we should all go into permanent lock down, but I’m certainly all for the idea of instantly stopping any investment into oil, and investing that all into nuclear and renewable energy sources.

the only reason that won’t happen is because oil companies are too powerful. End of. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I’m not naive enough to believe that money doesn’t talk. They won’t be when the oil runs out. But by then it’s too late. 

the fact that we’re even considering making new coal mines and new coal powered power stations just boggles my mind.

put it this way, maybe we didn’t cause this, maybe it is all part of the earths cycle. But if you walk into a door and have a black eye, and it’s no one’s fault, it’s just the way things are, I wouldn’t make it better by punching you in the face repeatedly. I would make it better by ensuring that your face was protected and that nothing else could hit you in the eye, be that accidental doors, or on purpose punches. If I lived on your face, I would have a very vested interest in seeing that it’s protected. 

Sadly though fossil fuels ARE the lifeblood of the planet and lockdown was not even a slight indicator of stop the use of ALL fossil fuels and ALL they’re by products , even on the medical side let alone all the serfs running round making for and delivering to the better offs , no not even a tiny fraction of just STOP oil,

you do realise that tech wise we are a million miles from replacing oil at this point and the road we are being pushed down ( wow there big bucks big growth in it ) is based on finite materials and every bit as damaging as oil ,

call me a silly sentimental old fool but I’m still far more worried by take make throw away needlessly and what we put in our rivers , oceans , land fills and the rate we are doing it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[TigerTedd]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

Sadly though fossil fuels ARE the lifeblood of the planet and lockdown was not even a slight indicator of stop the use of ALL fossil fuels and ALL they’re by products , even on the medical side let alone all the serfs running round making for and delivering to the better offs , no not even a tiny fraction of just STOP oil,

you do realise that tech wise we are a million miles from replacing oil at this point and the road we are being pushed down ( wow there big bucks big growth in it ) is based on finite materials and every bit as damaging as oil ,

call me a silly sentimental old fool but I’m still far more worried by take make throw away needlessly and what we put in our rivers , oceans , land fills and the rate we are doing it 🤷🏻‍♂️

And that is definitely worth being worried about. As finite as fossil fuels are, so are any number of resources that are used to make things that are thrown away. It’s all part of the big picture that adds to climate change. 

but then recycling another one. I do my bit, I recycle. But ultimately, it’s not me that’s going to make a difference. It’s institutional, organisational recycling on a massive scale. I find it crazy that it’s not in legislation yet to ban plastic packaging. If you’re a manufacturer, you should have to make a special application to use plastic packaging. Alternatives should be the default. Plastics only where necessary.

i can get behind the idea of just stop oil, but there should be a just stop plastic movement too. Just pull the plug and let the manufacturer’s deal with it. Some are taking it upon themselves, but it should be built into legislation and the choice taken away from companies. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

My Eddie they are just like the charts and graphics from covid day ,,, oh how I’ve missed them and you’ve managed to work in the words conspiracy theory too ,,,, it must be my birthday 🥰

There is science - and there is idiocy. You chose your side - and I chose mine.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

I find it crazy that it’s not in legislation yet to ban plastic packaging. If you’re a manufacturer, you should have to make a special application to use plastic packaging. Alternatives should be the default. Plastics only where necessary.

i can get behind the idea of just stop oil, but there should be a just stop plastic movement too. Just pull the plug and let the manufacturer’s deal with it.

Fully agree.

But Archie's argument will be - grrr this is just an excuse for BIG CARDBOARD to exploit us poor serfs who quite like the convenience of plastic packaging so what's the point 😂

 

[GboroRam]

I see this thread approaching closing down. Can I recommend people ignore or block people instead of reacting? 

[Highgate]

The good news is that a full transition renewable power is now entirely within our capabilities.  If we, and especially our governments, were so inclined it could all be done in the not too distant future. 

https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/WWSBook/WWSBook.html

It will take a lot of effort to update and improve the infrastructure that's required, but it's completely feasible.  Maybe if we use the $7 trillion dollars a year we spend on fossil fuel subsidies (according to the International Monetary Fund) on renewables and their infrastructure instead then that would be a big help!!

Another promising factor is that solar and wind power and now the cheapest forms of energy on the planet. The transition can't happen overnight of course and fossil fuels will still have to used in ever decreasing amounts until the renewable capacity was complete, but the main obstacles to overcome now are mental and political ones. The technology already exists.

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I see this thread approaching closing down. Can I recommend people ignore or block people instead of reacting? 

Perhaps your right , perhaps threads like this should be shut down because actually there is no way that they can be separated from the politics and ideological, they chug along fine if they are an echo chamber and used to push one view , if that is challenged then the poo hits the fan ,,, 

why bother posting on them then people may ask ?   Well I don’t use any other form of social media and found this site through my love of derby county , little by little I came to see it as community and became involved , I take part in all areas of it , that has expanded from just the football which I still very avidly read and exchange opinions and experiences on , I have noticed quite a few posters who wernt on track with the message away from the football section have just stopped bothering to post , 

that’s quite sad really 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Archied]

59 minutes ago, Highgate said:

The good news is that a full transition renewable power is now entirely within our capabilities.  If we, and especially our governments, were so inclined it could all be done in the not too distant future. 

https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/WWSBook/WWSBook.html

It will take a lot of effort to update and improve the infrastructure that's required, but it's completely feasible.  Maybe if we use the $7 trillion dollars a year we spend on fossil fuel subsidies (according to the International Monetary Fund) on renewables and their infrastructure instead then that would be a big help!!

Another promising factor is that solar and wind power and now the cheapest forms of energy on the planet. The transition can't happen overnight of course and fossil fuels will still have to used in ever decreasing amounts until the renewable capacity was complete, but the main obstacles to overcome now are mental and political ones. The technology already exists.

 

If it was as you say it would be exploding , better , cheaper , the answer ,

just ask Microsoft or apple 🤷🏻‍♂️, 

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

If it was as you say it would be exploding , better , cheaper , the answer ,

just ask Microsoft or apple 🤷🏻‍♂️, 

In the spirit of not starting an argument - i suspect that we both (and probably most on this thread) would agree with the statement that - we won't see that explosion of more sustainable, less polluting, less planet-harming answers until those who control the fossil fuel industry have worked out how to shift their power-base away from fossil fuels and into the "green" solutions

We all know that - and that's the really depressing part 😞

[Highgate]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

Perhaps your right , perhaps threads like this should be shut down because actually there is no way that they can be separated from the politics and ideological, they chug along fine if they are an echo chamber and used to push one view , if that is challenged then the poo hits the fan ,,, 

why bother posting on them then people may ask ?   Well I don’t use any other form of social media and found this site through my love of derby county , little by little I came to see it as community and became involved , I take part in all areas of it , that has expanded from just the football which I still very avidly read and exchange opinions and experiences on , I have noticed quite a few posters who wernt on track with the message away from the football section have just stopped bothering to post , 

that’s quite sad really 🤷🏻‍♂️

It will be fine if we refrain from directly insulting other posters and don't mention particular political parties or politicians.  There is plenty here that can be discussed without breaking any rules I think. 

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It will be fine if we refrain from directly insulting other posters and don't mention particular political parties or politicians.  There is plenty here that can be discussed without breaking any rules I think. 

You mean like calling people ignorant or trolls 😂( not you by the way👍), as for parties I’m very clear I have no faith in any of them 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

The good news is that a full transition renewable power is now entirely within our capabilities.  If we, and especially our governments, were so inclined it could all be done in the not too distant future. 

https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/WWSBook/WWSBook.html

It will take a lot of effort to update and improve the infrastructure that's required, but it's completely feasible.  Maybe if we use the $7 trillion dollars a year we spend on fossil fuel subsidies (according to the International Monetary Fund) on renewables and their infrastructure instead then that would be a big help!!

Another promising factor is that solar and wind power and now the cheapest forms of energy on the planet. The transition can't happen overnight of course and fossil fuels will still have to used in ever decreasing amounts until the renewable capacity was complete, but the main obstacles to overcome now are mental and political ones. The technology already exists.

 

You’d think, at the very least, there would be some sort of public commitment to reduce cost on fossil fuels by like 10% a year for 10 years or something. At the minute there’s just no plan at all.

they say ‘no petrol card sold after 2030’. But with no actual wind down plan, so they end up having to kick the can down the road.

they just keep talking  and talking and no one actually does anything, or commits to anything.

its all so frustrating, when we can all see a pathway to a better future, but, as you say, it’s just politics, and a few rich people afraid to lose their power, getting in the way. 

[Stive Pesley]

36 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

its all so frustrating, when we can all see a pathway to a better future, but, as you say, it’s just politics, and a few rich people afraid to lose their power, getting in the way. 

Feels like they are openly laughing in our faces with it too

COP28 was held in the UAE and the president was Al Jaber -  the CEO of the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company!

COP29 is in Azerbaijan - a country whose main export is oil and the President of the conference this time is Mukhtar Babayev, a former employee of Azerbaijan's national oil company 🙄

These are the people coming up with the roadmap...hmmmm

[cstand]

57 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Feels like they are openly laughing in our faces with it too

COP28 was held in the UAE and the president was Al Jaber -  the CEO of the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company!

COP29 is in Azerbaijan - a country whose main export is oil and the President of the conference this time is Mukhtar Babayev, a former employee of Azerbaijan's national oil company 🙄

These are the people coming up with the roadmap...hmmmm