Portsmouth (H) Sat 29th April

[Inverurie Ram]

23 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

10 minutes when we were trying for a winner. 10 minutes, if it makes no difference why bother? Before I posted I thought there'll be someone having their usual pop at me...and hey presto... 😄

Smith made a difference and Barks and White didn't. White was mentioned for his 'yet again' attempt at giving a goal away when he skittled our two CBs in the box at a Pompey attack.

I haven’t seen a game yet when White has not had a part to play in defensive errors, either losing the ball or poor passing leading up to conceding goals, or giving cheap penalties away, so however effective he is going forwards it’s usually cancelled out by the lack of the hard work, required to keep it out of our goal before pressuring the opponents goal.

A lot of fans have criticised Collins all season, but he has chipped in with important goals, has held the the ball up, has worked hard to win the ball back and is effective in our box, when required to defend.

Hopefully if White has any more opportunities this season with Derby he can prove the fans that doubt him, that he can do all the initial hard work that enables the ball to be kept in the attacking areas and also creates and scores.

[Srg]

Thought the first 20 minutes was probably the best we've played this season. We looked like we had a midfield, we were passing comfortably and creating chances. Could have easily been 3 or 4 up and it wouldn't have flattered.

Then, in a tradition as old as the club itself, we conceded the first time they went forward. Thought their right winger had a field day behind Roberts and pulling Cashin out wide. We struggled to really adapt to that out ball most of the game.

Still, hard to be overly critical because I think we did deserve to win that game. Think some of the subs worked, some of them didn't and lost some momentum - bound to happen with sheer number of subs these days. Portsmouth time wasting was very small time... taking 3k fans across the country for a game which means literally nothing and then proceed to not play football for a large portion of it. Is it me, or is League One worse for this than the Championship ever was? It's so out of hand. 6 minutes were added but it could've been 16.

There's some debate going on in here about Warne, his style, his potential signing etc. All of it is completely moot until it happens. He's worked with what he's had, he's shown some ability to change the way we play despite that from game to game, and this squad he's working with is anything but well rounded. He's worked with a majority ageing, and definitely snails-paced team which has struggled to relieve pressure with the complete lack of an outball. Let him do what he needs to do and see where we go, all this thumbing our noses at style of football is silly. Want to be known as a nice footballing team down here? Fine, be Oxford or MK Dons, and look where they are. Let's get out of this pit first.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

I haven’t seen a game yet when White has not had a part to play in defensive errors, either losing the ball or poor passing leading up to conceding goals, or giving cheap penalties away, so however effective he is going forwards it’s usually cancelled out by the lack of the hard work, required to keep it out of our goal before pressuring the opponents goal.

A lot of fans have criticised Collins all season, but he has chipped in with important goals, has held the the ball up, has worked hard to win the ball back and is effective in our box, when required to defend.

Hopefully if White has any more opportunities this season with Derby he can prove the fans that doubt him, that he can do all the initial hard work that enables the ball to be kept in the attacking areas and also creates and scores.

I haven’t checked all the games he’s played in but, two examples, he played most of the game against Cheltenham and Charlton and we neither conceded a goal or a penalty in either.

[Woodley Ram]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

Thought the first 20 minutes was probably the best we've played this season. We looked like we had a midfield, we were passing comfortably and creating chances. Could have easily been 3 or 4 up and it wouldn't have flattered.

Then, in a tradition as old as the club itself, we conceded the first time they went forward. Thought their right winger had a field day behind Roberts and pulling Cashin out wide. We struggled to really adapt to that out ball most of the game.

Still, hard to be overly critical because I think we did deserve to win that game. Think some of the subs worked, some of them didn't and lost some momentum - bound to happen with sheer number of subs these days. Portsmouth time wasting was very small time... taking 3k fans across the country for a game which means literally nothing and then proceed to not play football for a large portion of it. Is it me, or is League One worse for this than the Championship ever was? It's so out of hand. 6 minutes were added but it could've been 16.

There's some debate going on in here about Warne, his style, his potential signing etc. All of it is completely moot until it happens. He's worked with what he's had, he's shown some ability to change the way we play despite that from game to game, and this squad he's working with is anything but well rounded. He's worked with a majority ageing, and definitely snails-paced team which has struggled to relieve pressure with the complete lack of an outball. Let him do what he needs to do and see where we go, all this thumbing our noses at style of football is silly. Want to be known as a nice footballing team down here? Fine, be Oxford or MK Dons, and look where they are. Let's get out of this pit first.

good post

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

I haven’t seen a game yet when White has not had a part to play in defensive errors, either losing the ball or poor passing leading up to conceding goals, or giving cheap penalties away, so however effective he is going forwards it’s usually cancelled out by the lack of the hard work, required to keep it out of our goal before pressuring the opponents goal.

A lot of fans have criticised Collins all season, but he has chipped in with important goals, has held the the ball up, has worked hard to win the ball back and is effective in our box, when required to defend.

Hopefully if White has any more opportunities this season with Derby he can prove the fans that doubt him, that he can do all the initial hard work that enables the ball to be kept in the attacking areas and also creates and scores.

To argue the point though, Collins has absolutely not held the ball up. His ball control is poor and it's been one of my main criticisms of him, it's a complete myth that he holds the ball up that people say just because he should be able to.

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I haven’t checked all the games he’s played in but, two examples, he played most of the game against Cheltenham and Charlton and we neither conceded a goal or a penalty in either.

Is the 50% of the games then? I mean seriously he knows where to be. 😄 I'm sure he'll be a decent player in time, but he's another that it isn't gonna happen for here I reckon.

Edited May 1, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Tamworthram]

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is the 50% of the games then? I mean seriously he knows where to be. 😄 I'm sure he'll be a decent player in time, but he's another that it isn't gonna happen for here I reckon.

I agree, when he first arrived he looked like a real prospect but it hasn’t quite happened for him. Sadly, just like a certain other player who’s big mistake in a big match lives in the memory (I think you know who I’m referring to 😀), being involved in two soft penalties means his other good or uneventful games will forever be overshadowed and forgotten.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

It's also a relevant factor to mention that Barnsley, Wycombe and Peterborough were not as in form at the beginning of the season than when we faced them under Warne. I also think it should be mentioned that regarding your away from home statistic, we played Charlton, Lincoln, and Fleetwood away (the worst teams in the top half) under Rosenior which of course were the ones most likely to achieve three points in. This skews the statistics. 

Accounting for form works both ways though. Our highest placed away win under Warne was Exeter in 14th who we beat recently, are in awful form (lost 5 straight I believe) & shipped 5 in the first half hour to Ipswich on Sat. Exclude that & we dont have an away win at anyone outside the bottom 6. 

Just re Rosenior, he faced 7 teams in the top half out of his 9 games in charge...that would indeed skew the statistic but against him & in favour of Warne. What can't be disputed is that Warne has managed a disproportionate amount of games against lesser opposition (22 out of 36 against bottom half sides) & that he has two wins against top half sides in 14 attempts. About as objective a stat as possible although context can smooth the edges (if not totally refute) that I accept.

Edited May 1, 2023 by LeedsCityRam

[Red Ram]

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Yer but …. Lets not muck about We all know hes been s*** over the course of the season. Lol.. no offence james lol

He's scored 11 goals. He works incredibly hard and generally holds the ball up well. He's a decent striker at this level. His biggest problem is that he's competing with, and therefore invites comparison with, McGoldrick, who's clearly exceptional (that is, far too good) at this level.

Not as good as the likes of Martin or CKR but we're playing in League One these days...

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Accounting for form works both ways though. Our highest placed away win under Warne was Exeter in 14th who we beat recently, are in awful form (lost 5 straight I believe) & shipped 5 in the first half hour to Ipswich on Sat. Exclude that & we dont have an away win at anyone outside the bottom 6. 

Just re Rosenior, he faced 7 teams in the top half out of his 9 games in charge...that would indeed skew the statistic but against him & in favour of Warne. What can't be disputed is that Warne has managed a disproportionate amount of games against lesser opposition (22 out of 36 against bottom half sides) & that he has two wins against top half sides in 14 attempts. About as objective a stat as possible although context can smooth the edges (if not totally refute) that I accept.

Thing is though accounting for form, you should also consider the form at the time we played them. For example, when Rosenior beat Barnsley, they had a really stuttering start to the season and their first month and a bit they actually were quite off it and dropped a lot of points. Shrewsbury and Fleetwood were no great sides when we faced them. Peterborough was a good win, but Wycombe were in the bottom half, and Lincoln were also in the bottom half and played us off the pitch. Why are we considering form now when it may not reflect form at the time? 

As before about the away wins, we actually had our more winnable top half sides, under Rosenior, so it's unfair to hold it on Warne. When we played Pompey away for example they were above us in the league and most considered it a good point.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

It's also a relevant factor to mention that Barnsley, Wycombe and Peterborough were not as in form at the beginning of the season than when we faced them under Warne. I also think it should be mentioned that regarding your away from home statistic, we played Charlton, Lincoln, and Fleetwood away (the worst teams in the top half) under Rosenior which of course were the ones most likely to achieve three points in. This skews the statistics. 

...but it also bears remembering that the results achieved earlier on in the season were done so against the disadvantage of a having a squad which had only just been assembled, with less preparation time on the training ground than everyone else and with certain key players only available for limited minutes (or none at all) as they worked their way back to fitness and form. The importance of a fit McGoldrick doesn't need pointing out to anyone at this stage, I'm sure!

This squad was thrust into a fixture schedule averaging a game every 4 days and didn't really get a chance to catch its breath until the international break during which we appointed Warne.

I'm not making a broader point btw, just adding another factor into judging how winnable any particular game might have been.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[MadAmster]

Same old, same old as for much of this season, IMO. Play well enough but don't hit the onion bag as often as we should.

Didzy has 25, Collo 12 and that's about it. The rest of the squad have scored the odd one here or there but not often enough. 

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

...but it also bears remembering that the results achieved earlier on in the season were done so against the disadvantage of a having a squad which had only just been assembled, with less preparation time on the training ground than everyone else and with certain key players only available for limited minutes (or none at all) as they worked their way back to fitness and form. The importance of a fit McGoldrick doesn't need pointing out to anyone at this stage, I'm sure!

This squad was thrust into a fixture schedule averaging a game every 4 days and didn't really get a chance to catch it's breath until the international break during which we appointed Warne.

Agreed, that is another relevant factor. The overarching point I was making was that it's always quite a lot more complex to assess than just pulling out results as a whole, many individual cases to consider.

[sage]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

Thought the first 20 minutes was probably the best we've played this season. We looked like we had a midfield, we were passing comfortably and creating chances. Could have easily been 3 or 4 up and it wouldn't have flattered.

Then, in a tradition as old as the club itself, we conceded the first time they went forward. Thought their right winger had a field day behind Roberts and pulling Cashin out wide. We struggled to really adapt to that out ball most of the game.

I think they tactically sussed put how to expose our 3/5 man defence, but our opening 20 minutes was so good and at such a high tempo they were firefighting to not concede.

It was interesting that they equalised just after one of their many 'injuries'. Stopped our momentum and time for a quick reminder of their game plan.

They got away in a similar way 3 mins before they scored but overhit the pass. 

I'm not sure how we could have countered this apart from switching to a back 4.

 

[Inverurie Ram]

2 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

I haven’t seen a game yet when White has not had a part to play in defensive errors, either losing the ball or poor passing leading up to conceding goals, or giving cheap penalties away, so however effective he is going forwards it’s usually cancelled out by the lack of the hard work, required to keep it out of our goal before pressuring the opponents goal.

A lot of fans have criticised Collins all season, but he has chipped in with important goals, has held the the ball up, has worked hard to win the ball back and is effective in our box, when required to defend.

Hopefully if White has any more opportunities this season with Derby he can prove the fans that doubt him, that he can do all the initial hard work that enables the ball to be kept in the attacking areas and also creates and scores.

 

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I haven’t checked all the games he’s played in but, two examples, he played most of the game against Cheltenham and Charlton and we neither conceded a goal or a penalty in either.

I did put the word “or” in their that means a part to play in defensive errors or poor passing etc leading to conceding. So without having to watch the Cheltenham and Charlton games again, I hope as a fan he didn’t lose the ball, struggle defensively etc but I’d be very surprised if he actually did.

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Accounting for form works both ways though. Our highest placed away win under Warne was Exeter in 14th who we beat recently, are in awful form (lost 5 straight I believe) & shipped 5 in the first half hour to Ipswich on Sat. Exclude that & we dont have an away win at anyone outside the bottom 6. 

Just re Rosenior, he faced 7 teams in the top half out of his 9 games in charge...that would indeed skew the statistic but against him & in favour of Warne. What can't be disputed is that Warne has managed a disproportionate amount of games against lesser opposition (22 out of 36 against bottom half sides) & that he has two wins against top half sides in 14 attempts. About as objective a stat as possible although context can smooth the edges (if not totally refute) that I accept.

We couldn’t beat a good Leeds side until we did just that and when it mattered - the memories the memories 

[Inverurie Ram]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

To argue the point though, Collins has absolutely not held the ball up. His ball control is poor and it's been one of my main criticisms of him, it's a complete myth that he holds the ball up that people say just because he should be able to.

It was was a comparison between the two players that come off the bench a lot to effect games as @RoyMac5 stated regarding the last 10 mins to try and grab a winning goal etc and players that both get a load of stick on here.

[Tamworthram]

3 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

 

I did put the word “or” in their that means a part to play in defensive errors or poor passing etc leading to conceding. So without having to watch the Cheltenham and Charlton games again, I hope as a fan he didn’t lose the ball, struggle defensively etc but I’d be very surprised if he actually did.

We didn't concede a goal in either of those games so you don't need to watch either of them to know he didn't "play a part in defensive errors or poor passing etc leading to conceding".

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

It was was a comparison between the two players that come off the bench a lot to effect games as @RoyMac5 stated regarding the last 10 mins to try and grab a winning goal etc and players that both get a load of stick on here.

Sure, and it's a point of which I'm disputing. He has nicked a few goals, but probably not as many as he should have gotten from the bench, but he certainly doesn't hold the ball up when he comes on. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

34 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Agreed, that is another relevant factor. The overarching point I was making was that it's always quite a lot more complex to assess than just pulling out results as a whole, many individual cases to consider.

It’s almost as if our final league position will be a result of the season as a whole; under both managers/coaching set ups; with all the players involved in the squad; including the various missed opportunities for points/wins/goals/clean sheets AND those that have been taken in games.

We will all be able to further admire what was, rue what wasn’t, and speculate/deliberate what might have been when the season ends….all with the spectre of administration and the risk of going out of business ever fading into the distance.
How good things are in one context compared to where we were this time last year! 🐏